OT: Hurricanes Lounge XL. 99 Luftballons

[DaveG]

@DaveG I THINK TIME HAS COME FOR THE XL

99 Duesenjager
Jeder war ein grosser Krieger
Hielten sich fuer Captain Kirk
Das gab ein grosses Feuerwerk
Die Nachbarn haben nichts gerafft
Und fuehlten sich gleich angemacht
Dabei schoss man am Horizont
Auf 99 Luftballons

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[Navin R Slavin]

And they literally just shot it down, lol

(notable that it appears they waited to shoot it down over water to avoid damage on the ground -- but also after it traversed the entire country, so I'm sure there will be some interesting postmortem discussions taking place)

 

[HisIceness]

Bye bye Ballon

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And they literally just shot it down, lol

(notable that it appears they waited to shoot it down over water to avoid damage on the ground -- but also after it traversed the entire country, so I'm sure there will be some interesting postmortem discussions taking place)

I read an article this morning that said they were going to shoot it down over water and then collect it.

 

[Chrispy]

And they literally just shot it down, lol

(notable that it appears they waited to shoot it down over water to avoid damage on the ground -- but also after it traversed the entire country, so I'm sure there will be some interesting postmortem discussions taking place)

 

[Negan4Coach]

There's an article somewhere from a defense analyst that talks about the challenges of bringing down a balloon at 90k altitude. Since it's not a big metal thing and it's well above flight ceilings, all the usual methods aren't effective, and the methods that are have serious risks for ground effects. Besides, the info a balloon can gather at 90k isn't that much more revealing than data that's already being gathered by satellites, and China already has plenty trained on us.

When it was at 90K feet, I was wondering same. Max ceiling for an F-15 or F-22 is 60k feet- can an AIM-120 make it the final 30K feet? Maybe not. They got rid of the Anti-Satellite missiles a while back too.

But NORAD has ONE f***ing job, and that's to protect our airspace and couldn't be bothered to do it. They should have dealt with it over Alaska.

These so called "experts" parroting the party line that "Balloons can't do anything spy satellites don't already do HURRRRR" are high on wombat shit. Just google "Gorgon Stare" if you want to see one of the many, many use cases a persistent platform is capable of. Plus it just sends a bad signal to an enemy that shoots down anything foreign and unmanned that flies anywhere near its airspace, and has even tried to ram and forced down and captured one of our aircraft over international waters in case anyone forgot.

Glad they finally splashed it but would have been great had they done it before it completed its mission.

 

[MinJaBen]

When it was at 90K feet, I was wondering same. Max ceiling for an F-15 or F-22 is 60k feet- can an AIM-120 make it the final 30K feet? Maybe not. They got rid of the Anti-Satellite missiles a while back too.

But NORAD has ONE f***ing job, and that's to protect our airspace and couldn't be bothered to do it. They should have dealt with it over Alaska.

These so called "experts" parroting the party line that "Balloons can't do anything spy satellites don't already do HURRRRR" are high on wombat shit. Just google "Gorgon Stare" if you want to see one of the many, many use cases a persistent platform is capable of. Plus it just sends a bad signal to an enemy that shoots down anything foreign and unmanned that flies anywhere near its airspace, and has even tried to ram and forced down and captured one of our aircraft over international waters in case anyone forgot.

Glad they finally splashed it but would have been great had they done it before it completed its mission.

What was that mission?

 

[Unsustainable]

I read an article this morning that said they were going to shoot it down over water and then collect it.

Why? It’s made in China, just order one from Amazon with free next day delivery.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What was that mission?

To make the US totally dependent upon goods and products from China. Mission accomplished!

 

[surfzone365]

Sorry.. theres a time to vent and this is it. I usually avoid being political or off-topic like the plague but this was a f***ing embarrassment. Should have been shot down over the PACIFIC as it entered the US near the Alluetian Islands, not the ATLANTIC. As an old timer I once knew use to say, this is closing the barn door after the horse has already bolted. The American people were failed here…

 

[Unsustainable]

What was that mission?

Autism update for the vaccines.

 

[Borsig]

Sorry.. theres a time to vent and this is it. I usually avoid being political or off-topic like the plague but this was a f***ing embarrassment. Should have been shot down over the PACIFIC as it entered the US near the Alluetian Islands, not the ATLANTIC. As an old timer I once knew use to say, this is closing the barn door after the horse has already bolted. The American people were failed here…

And on numerous other things.

But that's what you get when you elect a potato to do a man's job.


ETA - Gorgon Stare was also suspected to be used on Jan20 in Richmond. They did have aircraft over us.

 

[Negan4Coach]

What was that mission?

IDK- but I can tell you with a certainty that there was a mission. They didn't just send it over a bunch of military bases for no reason.

But if I had to guess, I'd say it was a combination of MASINT, a little known discipline which stands for Measurements and Signatures intelligence, along with a secondary persistent optical surveillance mission ala Gorgon Stare.

Here is a good primer on MASINT: https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/21-113_MASINT_Primer__2022.pdf

And now Biden is saying he ordered them to shoot it down on Wednesday. Holy crap- if that's true this trend of the generals openly defying POTUS has to be brought to an end. Trump should have fired General Milley and the rest of those slugs at CJCS years ago when they leaked falsehoods to the Washington Post and openly defied his orders numerous times.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

And on numerous other things.

But that's what you get when you elect a potato to do a man's job.

I thought you didn't want any government anyway!

 

[Chan790]

What was that mission?

Who knows?

Some experts have speculated its sole purpose was to provoke us to shoot it down in furtherance of creating cover for other Chinese espionage initiatives such as scuttling high level talks during the SoS Blinken's visit or providing an excuse for them to retaliate by destroying oceanic sensors in the Strait of Taiwan. (Those sensors, among other things, monitor the movement of Chinese warships.)

 

[Navin R Slavin]

What was that mission?

They've been trying to reach us about our car's extended warranty.

 

[HisIceness]

They've been trying to reach us about our car's extended warranty.

That 1993 350k mile Honda Accord needs it

 

[LakeLivin]

Reports are that the U.S. jammed it's transmissions capabilities while at the same time gathering it's own intelligence on the balloon itself. Could be spin, but the retired former commanding general of US Army Europe just said we have that capability.

Regardless, overall isn't this a huge L for China? Could they have really been that stupid to send a surveillance balloon across the US with the expectation that it wouldn't be detected and neutralized, with a subsequent negative effect on US / China relations? If this were a bomb going off at a bank I'd pay careful attention to the priceless exhibit at the museum across town, lol.

 

[surfzone365]

Reports are that the U.S. jammed it's transmissions capabilities while at the same time gathering it's own intelligence on the balloon itself. Could be spin, but the retired former commanding general of US Army Europe just said we have that capability.

Regardless, overall isn't this a huge L for China? Could they have really been that stupid to send a surveillance balloon across the US with the expectation that it wouldn't be detected and neutralized, with a subsequent negative effect on US / China relations? If this were a bomb going off at a bank I'd pay careful attention to the priceless exhibit at the museum across town, lol.

No this is a major W for China. Weather balloon, spy balloon, kite, paper airplane… all of that is nebulous. The take away here is China put an object in our air space that traversed the enter width of the country testing our response, anticipating the Americans wouldn’t do shit about it and that’s what happened.

 

[MinJaBen]

IDK- but I can tell you with a certainty that there was a mission. They didn't just send it over a bunch of military bases for no reason.

You really can’t send a balloon anywhere but up. Once up, the currents determine where it goes, whether it’s over a military installation or not is only as good as predicting the weather about a week or two out.

But if I had to guess, I'd say it was a combination of MASINT, a little known discipline which stands for Measurements and Signatures intelligence, along with a secondary persistent optical surveillance mission ala Gorgon Stare.

Here is a good primer on MASINT: https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/21-113_MASINT_Primer__2022.pdf

And now Biden is saying he ordered them to shoot it down on Wednesday. Holy crap- if that's true this trend of the generals openly defying POTUS has to be brought to an end. Trump should have fired General Milley and the rest of those slugs at CJCS years ago when they leaked falsehoods to the Washington Post and openly defied his orders numerous times.

Is that ordered them on Wednesday to shoot it down, or ordered them to shoot it down on Wednesday? Obviously a big difference.

 

[Lempo]

You really can’t send a balloon anywhere but up. Once up, the currents determine where it goes, whether it’s over a military installation or not is only as good as predicting the weather about a week or two out.



Is that ordered them on Wednesday to shoot it down, or ordered them to shoot it down on Wednesday? Obviously a big difference.

- Take down that spy balloon!
- ...
- ...
- ...
- ...
- ...
- ...
- ...
- Oh you meant now?

 

[surfzone365]

You really can’t send a balloon anywhere but up. Once up, the currents determine where it goes, whether it’s over a military installation or not is only as good as predicting the weather about a week or two out.

Any country that sends an uncontrollable object into the air has to deal with the ramifications of what happens. To think this was an accident due to the air currents whipping it any ol direction is either gross negligence on the Chinese, knowing this could create a massive diplomatic issue if it drifted into US airspace, or as we all believe a very intentional act. I don’t think the Chinese are stupid in not foreseeing that this would create blowback - pun intended!

 

[hockeynjune]

Chinese Spy Balloon Has Unexpected Maneuverability

An expert explains why it’s so odd that the suspected Chinese spy balloon can change course

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I just saw the trailer for the Winnie the Pooh Horror movie (Blood and Honey). Part of me thinks that's terrible. The other part of me thinks it's absolute genius.

 

[Negan4Coach]

You really can’t send a balloon anywhere but up. Once up, the currents determine where it goes, whether it’s over a military installation or not is only as good as predicting the weather about a week or two out.



Is that ordered them on Wednesday to shoot it down, or ordered them to shoot it down on Wednesday? Obviously a big difference.

Apparently- you can send it other places other than up. Pentagon said it was under guidance. I don't think the jet stream just randomly took it over our ICBM fields in Montana and Kansas.

I'm not going to play semantic games. When the President gives an order, you don't go "Oh, did you mean do what you ordered me to RIGHT NOW? I thought I could just do it whenever. My bad."

Really, though, NORAD should have automatically attacked it as soon as it entered US airspace over the Aleutian Islands.