Player Discussion Hronek, Zadorov, Cole, Myers — Who to keep?

[iceburg]

It completely depends on cost. The only one I wouldn't have back independent of cost is Cole. He needs to leave to make room for younger guys who are close to making the roster and, if they're not ready, the team needs to find another younger bridge player.

Hronek at less than $7.5M. Term will necessarily be long.

Zadorov at less than $4.5M on a 2 year deal or $3.5M on a 5 year deal (or somewhere in between).

Myers: anything more than $2Mx2 is an overpay at this stage of his career. For context there are only 5 D-men in the league that are under contract next season, making more than $2M, and are Myers' age or older. There names are Burns, Vlasic, Petry, Letang, and Suter. Weber and Seabrooke are making money but they're not playing.

 

[JT Milker]

I’d keep Hronek at 7.5M max, sign Tanev for a few years to retire eventually as a Canuck, and then decide whether Zadorov is worth the premium over someone like Dillon as a 3rd pairing banger. I’d lean no and instead use that cap to upgrade at forward.

 

[Bobby9]

Dillon and Z.

Sign Tanev and another UFA

Let the other 3 go

 

[Nucker101]

I prefer Edmundson over Dillon

I’d take Dillon all day.

Edmundson was a whipping boy for Habs fabs, unsure about Caps. Dillon seems pretty well liked by Caps and Jets fans.

 

[Breakers]

From Dreger
He just keep hearing Ottawa is going to overpay for Tanev. They don’t care about the overpayment in the slightest this is strictly about a culture shift for that locker room

But that Vancouver connection is strong

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

If they can't get Hronek resigned the team is going to be taking a step back next year, so I really hope both camps can come together agree on a number in the 7 - 7.5 million range. It sucks that Hronek is playing hardball right now but I have faith that the management team will get him down to a reasonable number. My guess is Hronek's agent is taking this position so they get whittled down to something in the 7 million range instead of the 6 million range like Alvin originally proposed.

My next target is definitely Zadorov. He plays a big hand in giving this team some identity. He's younger than Cole and Myers and should have lots of gas left in the tank given his amazing tool set. With more time to learn under Foote and Gonchar he might even have another level to his game. But with what he brings right now I'd be willing to bend a bit on the cap hit and look to cheap out elsewhere on the roster to even that out.

 

[theguardianII]

I think there is pretty much a concensus.

Keep Myers and Zadorov
Sign Hronek cheap of trade him, he will have high a trade value
Cole is let go or re-signs really cheap but Juulsen is ready.

In keeping Myers and Zadorov much is made about how much. But due to a flat cap for the last 4/5 years fans forget the rebound likely to happen where the cap increases by 20+ million over the next four seasons, starting next year.

I have posted before that switch the salary amounts and add maybe a million and those two guys are around for another 3 years for Myers and 6 for Zardorov. While two different players and a vast talent difference remember McKinnon signed for a long term 6 million a year contract and within 2 years that was a bargain.

6 million is still a lot but in 3 seasons it will be like 4 million now.

Myers - 6mil, Zadorov - 3.75 mil = 9.75 mil
Propose;
Myers - 3 years with 4 mil average
Zadorov - 6 years with a 6.5 average.

With Hughes that would add defence zone stability.

The savings from Hronek - 4.4 mil and Cole - 3 mil, would still allow for going after another younger large dman without adding to the defence budget.

Hughes is getting to the point in the easy season that it doesn't really matter too much who he plays with as long as they are defensively responsible.

If watching now there are depths of untapped offensive talent in Myers and Zadorov.

We all have ideas but when it comes to really big defencemen with some attitude they don't wear out, see Schenn and how he re-invented himself to being a tough guy, where Zadorov is already.

In 3 years Hughes will look to be a super bargain, 7 million will be 3/4 defencemen.

It would be great to keep Cole at half but he only wanted a one year contract.

 

[iceburg]

I think there is pretty much a concensus.

Keep Myers and Zadorov
Sign Hronek cheap of trade him, he will have high a trade value
Cole is let go or re-signs really cheap but Juulsen is ready.

In keeping Myers and Zadorov much is made about how much. But due to a flat cap for the last 4/5 years fans forget the rebound likely to happen where the cap increases by 20+ million over the next four seasons, starting next year.

I have posted before that switch the salary amounts and add maybe a million and those two guys are around for another 3 years for Myers and 6 for Zardorov. While two different players and a vast talent difference remember McKinnon signed for a long term 6 million a year contract and within 2 years that was a bargain.

6 million is still a lot but in 3 seasons it will be like 4 million now.

Myers - 6mil, Zadorov - 3.75 mil = 9.75 mil
Propose;
Myers - 3 years with 4 mil average
Zadorov - 6 years with a 6.5 average.

With Hughes that would add defence zone stability.

The savings from Hronek - 4.4 mil and Cole - 3 mil, would still allow for going after another younger large dman without adding to the defence budget.

Hughes is getting to the point in the easy season that it doesn't really matter too much who he plays with as long as they are defensively responsible.

If watching now there are depths of untapped offensive talent in Myers and Zadorov.

We all have ideas but when it comes to really big defencemen with some attitude they don't wear out, see Schenn and how he re-invented himself to being a tough guy, where Zadorov is already.

In 3 years Hughes will look to be a super bargain, 7 million will be 3/4 defencemen.

It would be great to keep Cole at half but he only wanted a one year contract.

Those are massive overpays IMO

 

[theguardianII]

Hronek is the last guy I want. He is just ok defensively and he is frustrating to watch offensively. He never creates anything, so his only play is to shoot, which either gets blocked or misses the net, so he's not worth the top dollar he will demand. He's a RFA so he has some trade value. Maybe his point total and being a righty gets us a good young D in return.

Hopefully UTAH will be looking. They have no defencemen signed for next year and Hronek may be seen as being buried behind Hughes.
He may very well be the best RHD (points) available and UTAH will want to make a splash. I worry they go after 4 of the Canucks defence, they have the money. Myers. Zadorov, Cole are all FA's

UTAH will have over 40 million in cap space.

 

[theguardianII]

Those are massive overpays IMO

Not in 3 years

Remember the CBA also ends in 2 years, that will/could make a big difference

Right now these dmen have chemistry, is there any guarantee Tocchet will like the next guy? Or that that guy will fit into the group.

Essentially they are in the top 5 in the league, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.

Wait and watch some of the real season, just about any AHL defence man doesn't look to much out of place in the easy season but when the players hit the ice or hit on the ice in the playoffs, size matters.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, better the devil/player you know than the devil/player you don't.

They are not massive over pays because that money and no more is already spent on them now. 3 years from now the cap goes up 20 million?

 

[Nick Lang]

I’d keep Hronek at 7.5M max, sign Tanev for a few years to retire eventually as a Canuck, and then decide whether Zadorov is worth the premium over someone like Dillon as a 3rd pairing banger. I’d lean no and instead use that cap to upgrade at forward.

This is the thing. Can we afford to pay a premium to a third line player? Our cap space currently says hell no. We can barely afford to pay fair prices at this point and we'll still be shorting the line-up somewhere.

I think some folks get pretty enamored over size. It's certainly important but it must be weighed vs cost and effectiveness/role. Besides the hitting component he's a so-so defender with the odd flash of offensive flair, but overall, he's average at both. On the negative side he's prone to Myer's like gaffes and bad penalties. It's a luxury we would struggle to afford with a more important 2RD still to be found (and paid for).

I would suggest if people really want Zads then logically Soucy should be traded and a cheaper 3LD brought in, but it doesn't really make sense. We already have a 2LD (Soucy) signed for $3 mil, who in my opinion is better than Zads already. So you're paying a guy 2LD money to play 3LD, when we already have a 2LD. Smacks of tunnel vision and knowingly making a poor monetary decision.

I'd way rather go with Dillon on a cheaper 2 year deal who can perform the same function and is 6'4" 225 himself. We have a Norris trophy winner holding down the position already, I don't know if I'm comfortable rolling out Zads behind him for the next 6 years. Ultimately I would hope a long term 2LD behind Hughes would be a more mobile and better player.

Having said that I like Zads,, his on ice presence is unique, and he's a great team guy too by the looks. I won't be too upset if we go that route I just have no clue how many compromises that would include, and what that rest of the team would look like as a result. My first priority would be 2RD, and a top 6 winger, then see if Zads is doable.

 

[iceburg]

Not in 3 years

Remember the CBA also ends in 2 years, that will/could make a big difference

Right now these dmen have chemistry, is there any guarantee Tocchet will like the next guy? Or that that guy will fit into the group.

Essentially they are in the top 5 in the league, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.

Wait and watch some of the real season, just about any AHL defence man doesn't look to much out of place in the easy season but when the players hit the ice or hit on the ice, size matters

They are not massive over pays because that money and no more is already spent on them now. 3 years from now is different when/if the cap goes up 20 million?

I did the cap increase math just before EP signed. Yes, there is expected to be a large increase next year ($4M) and likely the following year or two then level off to a more historical increases. So, by even the highest estimates, it should rise a total of around 20% over 4 years and between 30-35% over 8 years. A 4 year contract signed this summer should have an average premium of around 10% built in to account for projected cap increases, or an extra $500K per year on a 4x$5M contract.
For argument sake let's say Myers signs 3x$4M. A very rough calc would put him at $3.7M in today's dollars. Going into next season that would make him the highest paid defenseman of his age or older not named Burns, Vlasic, Petry, or Letang.

 

[strattonius]

I think there is pretty much a concensus.

Keep Myers and Zadorov

Those aren't consensus at all? Actually they are probably the most widely debated on here.

Sometimes I'm not certain you're based in the same reality as others.

 

[Breakers]

Please to Christ don’t tell me somebody actually suggested $6 million AAV for Myers

Did I understand that posting right?
That’s trolling

Myers?
MYERS?????????

 

[VanillaCoke]

Myers and Hronek likely back for sure, I think they wait on Zadorov and if he wants to come back for a reasonable price great, if not he gets replaced by Dillon for probably half the cost.

Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Dillon, Juulsen, Myers, Tanev is still pretty legitimate Dcorps, not even factoring in the higher quality ufas.

 

[bossram]

There is no reason to bring back Z, if you're expecting (and they are using him as such) Soucy to be your primary 2LD. Zadorov and Milstein know this is their only chance to get the bag, and the Canucks shouldn't be burning their cap space on a luxury 3LD.

I don't want Myers back, but he probably is. If it's <$3M on a 1 or 2 year term, I'll live with it.

I've repeated my position on Cole as an ideal, cheap, short-term 4/5D on the team and would bring him back on the same deal he is on now. If brass wants to target a similarly priced player for that slot, that's fine too. Maybe Brendan Dillon takes a hometown discount.

Hronek well...I was never that high on him to begin with and I've been critical of his defensive play all year. That said, it's clear he was the kind of player they needed to unlock Hughes' next level, and it will be very difficult to find this calibre of RD on the trade or UFA market. We can hope they reach a fair deal.

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

If Myer's wants to stay I would sign other players first and then see what's left over and make the best offer we can on a super short deal, like 1 year, or 2 years max. He was overpaid on his previous contract so he might go for it for personal reasons. If he wants to go elsewhere for more money, that's fine.

Zadorov is miles ahead of Myers when it comes to consistency and ability to make plays. I don't think Zadorov is especially gaffe prone either. He actually makes a lot of simple plays while holding off an attacker that's all over his back because of his size and skating ability. Every defenseman makes a bad pass or bobbles the puck from time to time so people that want to claim someone is gaffe prone will be able to find examples of gaffes. Expecting an NHL defenseman to play air tight is totally unrealistic.

 

[bossram]

Myers and Hronek likely back for sure, I think they wait on Zadorov and if he wants to come back for a reasonable price great, if not he gets replaced by Dillon for probably half the cost.

Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Dillon, Juulsen, Myers, Tanev is still pretty legitimate Dcorps, not even factoring in the higher quality ufas.

Yes. I'd far rather use the cap space some are carving out for Zadorov on a top-four RD (i.e. Tanev, Demelo, or even Matt Roy). Better balance and overall quality for the club. If you re-sign Z, you are basically saying you want to go into next season with Myers in your top-four.

Hughes - Hronek
Soucy - Tanev/Demelo
_______ - Myers
Juulsen

That's nice. Fill in the blank could be Cole if he remains cheap. Dillon if he takes a hometown discount. Some other cheap-ish UFA

 

[Bobby9]

Myers I have a feeling we could sign for 3M as he loves Van.
Zad will be looking for 5M i think.

Could we pay our 3rd D pairing 8 M?

 

[theguardianII]

I did the cap increase math just before EP signed. Yes, there is expected to be a large increase next year ($4M) and likely the following year or two then level off to a more historical increases. So, by even the highest estimates, it should rise a total of around 20% over 4 years and between 30-35% over 8 years. A 4 year contract signed this summer should have an average premium of around 10% built in to account for projected cap increases, or an extra $500K per year on a 4x$5M contract.
For argument sake let's say Myers signs 3x$4M. A very rough calc would put him at $3.7M in today's dollars. Going into next season that would make him the highest paid defenseman of his age or older not named Burns, Vlasic, Petry, or Letang.

I did a list off CF, there would be over 10 players. Some are even older. Although a few are on LTIR for the rest of their careers.
Myers may be the only RHD though.
Myers has been lucky on the injury side of his careers.

Some of the media pundits think the cap will be over 100 million in 3 years.

I would structure his contract so he got a big signing bonus and no clause or limited clause his last year.

ALL cap figures haven't taken the UTAH move into account. No matter what has been reported in the news as the Yotes income, it will be larger, much larger and have a disproportional effect on the cap.

It also appears that the new leader of the NHLPA will have more presence so the cap structure may also change a few percent in favour of the players, pure speculation on that but it makes sense

Really good thought process there though.

Those aren't consensus at all? Actually they are probably the most widely debated on here.

Sometimes I'm not certain you're based in the same reality as others.

Yes, most posters are on Hronek.

Some fans seem to want to dismantle or dismiss the defensive corp and team/player chemistry
"We have Hughes, we don't need anyone else"

Tocchet likes them. Is he in the same reality?
I am FOR team chemistry. They are 3rd and 4th in defence scoring.
I THINK, taking the OEL cap increases this team, if wanting to improve, they have to keep the cap as close as it is now so the cap increase, what little they get to use, can be used for forwards.
They keep those two and they can fill in with cap controlled players, prospects, picks, FA's, trades.

DEFENSE wins championships, Cup winners are larger than league average players and usually have huge defencemen.
Tampa's was huge.
Vegas is large
Colorado may have been the smallest all together but even they got large humans on the backend. Several over league average.

How many posters are thinking with the little head or their hearts?

What is making this team is the defence. Scoring is good too but that has dried up and they are still in first in the division.

This group of defence, 6th in the league in 5 on 5 defence, last year 28th. The difference, Zadorov, Cole, Hronek, Juulsen, Soucy.

They need to try to get these guys signed before UTAH drives the market up to high.

 

[iceburg]

I did a list off CF, there would be over 10 players. Some are even older. Although a few are on LTIR for the rest of their careers.

I based it on players that were under contract for next year. Most of the others are big contracts signed in their 20s. Not good comparables.

 

[bossram]

Myers I have a feeling we could sign for 3M as he loves Van.
Zad will be looking for 5M i think.

Could we pay our 3rd D pairing 8 M?

No.

 

[Lat]

Hronek is an obligatory re-signing, the only question is whether he can be a bit cost-controlled with term or if he'll be at $7M+. Only way he doesn't stay is if he really doesn't want to play here longterm, in which case we'd be in heaps of trouble.

Zadarov is the would-be-nice-if-we-could one. He adds quite a lot of value but if you pay too much you lose out on depth and he's not really a guy that's going to drive offense, he can give that illusion sometimes with a highlight reel play here and there but he's not doing it systematically. He's also an underrated penalty taker and along with Myers one of the reasons why we tend to get into penalty trouble against the grain. Gonna trust Allvin to make the right call, though.

Cole is a hard tell, great veteran presence who can play on his offside, doing good this season on the net but not sure how much more he has on the tank. We don't really have anyone in the org that could take his spot and it's always a gamble to look for a replacement in UFA without having to give term, so I think the first option is to retain Cole at maybe a lower caphit due to age. But he could theoretically be replaced by a guy like Dillion in UFA. Not a huge loss if Cole walks but he does need replacement.

Myers... I have no trouble admitting this season was probably his best. He's had quite a few good stretches and he does bring value side from his size/reach, outside of Hughes/Hronek he's the only other defenseman who can actually skate the puck out into the other end of the rink consistently. But f***ing hell, the moment the game gets a bit fast or loose the chaos giraffe rears its head and you can count on him making boneheaded decisions all over the place. Maybe this playoffs will prove me wrong but to me you just can't commit significant cap to a guy who has a high chance of being a liability under pressure. You try to retain him just because we have no one else at RHD who can fill his spot for now but you have to walk away if he doesn't take a big paycut in a 1-2 years deal and let Allvin cook.

I agree with this take.

Hronek I think is a no-brainer, and the people who think we should "let him go" are out to lunch.
His contract would ideally at/under 7M, up to 7.25M max. Otherwise, we sign his QO of 5.28M and look at trade options.

Zadarov I would re-sign at ~4M long term, since he's a bit of a unicorn in terms of size and mobility. I'm okay with a longer-term contract due to his age.

Cole I would only take at a close to minimum with the expectation that he'd be a 5-7D playing 50 games. There's not a whole lot of confidence for him given how he's looked when he hasn't been load managed this season.

Myers has actually been decent this season and I'd take him back at ~3M on a shorter deal...but any more and I would pass.

 

[JT Milker]

No.

You could make an argument that we don’t need to pay our 2nd pairing 8M when Hughes and Hronek play 25 minutes.

 

[drax0s]

I don't think any of them are at the "keep at all costs" level. However:

Likely keep Hronek and Zad on reasonable deals. Both have warts.
Keep Cole on a cheap 1 year deal as a 5/6D. He has issues when overplayed but I think he's generally okay in limited minutes.
Move on from Myers. I doubt we get him at a AAV I'd stomach and even then, tbh I don't really see his strengths. He's not amazingly defensive, offensive, punishing or transition focused... He's just sort of... there - and tall.