Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by canucksfan, Feb 19, 2007.
Who was better; Mario Lemieux or Gordie Howe?
I take Gordie personally. Both were dominant offensive players for long periods of time, but Gordie brought a physical edge that few skill players have ever brought that puts him ahead of Lemieux in my eyes.
Howe's longevity edge plays a huge factor against Mario. Howe with the edge.
I don't see how people under 40 can vote in some of these polls. If you never see a guy play, how can you judge.
What he said.
You look at what Howe did between 1950-1953 and you will have your answer. That was his best 4 year stretch of a DOMINANT 26 years in the league. Only Gretzky ever put together a stretch better than that.
Howe is my choice.
howe.. to me and the hockey news, and experts, howe remains as the 3rd greatest ever.
Depends on what you want in a player. Howe was a dominant offensive force in a slower age, and he was a tough, take-no-guff physical player (some say dirty). Mario is a one-way offensive powerhouse with super-soft hands, but no inclination for the rougher stuff (or even being touched, to be perfectly frank). If I wanted to win a series, I'd take Howe easily. If I needed a shootout goal, I'd take Mario. And if a scrum broke out around me, I'd certainly want Gordie and his elbows and fists on the ice!
Howe. He's the best all around forward of all time.
Right. Never mind that Mario's career was stopped by CANCER. Longevity is entirely a matter of skill.
Actually, it was a cheapshot before then that started the process. But.
1. We can only judge careers on what actually happened.
2. Howe's longevity, being a star player for 30 years, is amazingly unprecidented and to write it off so simply is just silly. What Howe accomplished is increadible.
3. At their peaks, there was minimal difference in overall skill level.
Howe is #3 on my alltime list behind Orr and Wayne, so I voted for him in this poll.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I would take Howe ahead of Gretzky. I think Gordie was the better hockey player than Gretzky or Mario. Nothing against either of those two players, but Howe is in their class offensively, and he was better defensively, and much more physical. Obviously I wouldn't take a guy like a Mikita or a Trottier ahead of Gretzky or Lemieux, despite what Mikita and Trotts bring to a team. But when you have a player who is comparable to Gretzky and Lemieux offensively, and capable of dominating a game in other ways, I'll take the all-round force.
Those blinded by numbers will question how I can put Gordie in the class of Gretzky or Mario offensively, even though Gordie never scored 50 goals and had one 100-point season. Well, give Gordie an 80-game schedule, a chance to have Red Kelly fully involved in the offence, and a chance to face a non-HHOF goalie on a regular basis, and Gordie's point totals skyrocket.
Personally, I think Gretzky was on another level offensively than Howe or Lemieux, but I can definitely see the rationale for taking Howe over him.
Honestly, I really think you could rank any of the top 4 in any order and have some valid justification for it.
To me, Lemieux is a clear #4. The top 3 though...
That's my opinion as well. The top three just had a little more than Lemieux did.
I don't think it's as clear as some make it out to be. Neither Gretzky nor Howe had to go through half the health problems Mario had, yet he finished his career with a ppg of like 1.9 despite that. What he did in 93 after returning from cancer ranks way up there in terms of all time greatest achievements.
mario IMO is the most talented player to ever play the game...(i really think sid is close)
but the longevity of howes career alone ranks him up there with the alltime greatest athletes- let alone hockey players.
Mario was the best player ever to play the game. Others had better careers thanks to better teams and health.
I'm not biased either.
Hence the difference between "best" and "greatest," which are two completely different things.
'93 may be the greatest season ever in pro sports. But, you can't judge a player by what they could have done. It's about what they did. And Lemieux's accomplishments are a step back.
Howe nearly died from head injury in 1950 and suffered permanenent neurological damage - hence the nickname Blinky.
Howe also had an arthritic wrist that had him playing on a number of occasions with one hand.
Howe was selected to 21 NHL All-Star squads, 12 times to the First Team. Six times he led the NHL in scoring to capture the Art Ross Trophy and six times he won the Hart as the league's most valuable player. His Detroit teams won the Stanley Cup four times.
When Howe was 40 years old he topped 100 points for the first time, scoring 44 goals and adding a career-high 59 assists.
Sorry not even close - Howe, Orr and Gretzky are 1, 1a and 1b - depending on what criteria you use to judge the greatest player.
All others are a big step down, including Lemieux.
From 1946 to 1971, the Red Wings played 1744 games. Howe played in 1687 of them, or 96.7%. In terms of health, I'd say that's quite a difference from Lemieux who was never able to play a complete season.