How long can Berube and Armstrong keep their positions?

[sbet1998]

I like everyone involved with the Blues Org., including their owners BUT sentimental and rushed decisions were made that have resulted in the team being in a unfamiliar position of currently not being competitive.

They handed out contracts like candy after the Cup win and it's crippled them as it has nearly every other franchise whose won a Cup, etc. They abandoned what got them there.

Armstrong handed out numerous contracts to unproven players while letting proven players walk. Ive only recently come to the conclusion that maybe keeping Pietro was the right idea -- even if he wanted too much. He was horrible in the 2020 Covid PO's and I know that turned some fans off of offering him a large contract but this team is failing without him and others. I hate to admit that. Maybe some of us were OK with it because letting Pujols walk worked out.. BUT DA handed out contracts nearly as large or as large to players that hadnt proven their consistency.

We're fans -- not owners or managers. We hold no real power over personnel decisions but it feels like the fans have been proven correct lately and that is not a good sign.

How long can Armstrong protect Berube and how long can Berube protect Armstrong? How much control over these decisions does the owners have and is Stillman paying attention?

Also, OT -- Schenn is a garbage Captain.. I have to say it. They should have went without a C this season. Just more horrible decision-making.

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[Frenzy31]

While I agree we have one really rough contact, Faulk and CP's contracts are in line with the league. 6.5 per year is about right for number 2 dmen.

Also, I really don't think anyone thought that Covid would do the amount of damage to the league that it did (Flat cap for how many years now). When contracts are signed, I do think GMs do so with the expectation that the CAP will go up and contacts would be in line within a year or two.

I think DA has done a good job with cutting bait on players who were not long term solutions, Staz, ROR, Tarasenko, Shatty, and has been very solid with his trades. I do think he has jumped the gun on a few contract (too much money after a short period of success), but they are no longer with the team. We are trying to retool on the fly which is tough and we will see if it is doable, but I really don't think we can complain about him as all GMS have issues with a contract or two.

Berube, I can go either way with. I don't think Doug is protecting him nor is he protecting Doug. I expected more from Vrana after his preseason and JK is clearly gripping his stick too hard. But man o man do we need to work on the PP. WTF

 

[Mike Liut]

I think Berube is a good coach for a talented team who needs a motivator to get to the next level.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

I thought DA was correct after we won The Cup that we could not stand still. It’s not like we were a young team at that point. But, the execution of that was not what I expected. The problem was he went in a direction that was not consistent with Berube’s game philosophy.

Part of that disconnect was probably due to who was available to us. It’s a bit of an oversimplification, but essentially swapping Petro for Krug and trying to take up the defensive slack elsewhere was always sketchy, at best. We save about $2.3M a year on the bottom line, but that is at the expense of the fit to the on-ice philosophy.

There are also different coaching strengths. Again, this is very general (and oversimplified). Some can build a team from the ground up, but once they do that, can’t necessarily wring out the best from them. Some can take a team that has decent talent and get it to the next level. They can’t necessarily maintain that level once it is achieved. Then some can take a team that is achieving and maintain it. They can’t build one, but once it is built that can keep it humming. A handful of coaches are good at more than one of those roles, and a select group (in history) are good at all three.

If they are both staying, there needs to be some merging of the two diverging paths. I’m not sure that is possible. I’m not convinced Berube is a builder, and I think we are closer to that stage than the others. That doesn’t mean I want to see him out, but it may be inevitable unless something in our direction changes drastically. Even if they replace DA, that does not change where we are on those three very rough categories.

 

[cmcalum]

Berube will be long gone before Doug Armstrong will be. When Armstrong became GM for the Blues in 2010, the Blues were worth $165 million. They are now worth more than $900 million dollars. He is going nowhere as under his leadership the owners have made millions of dollars and won a Stanley Cup. Yes, the Blues aren’t going to be good for a few years but he built a Stanley Cup winner and I‘m sure the owners believe he can do it again. And if he doesn’t they have made Millions and millions of dollars. My guess is when they would look at their future bank accounts they will be extremely happy with what Doug Armstrong has accomplished.

 

[Thallis]

I think at some point this season Berube is the sacrificial lamb to try to save some face with the fans and sell that it's still a "retool." Armstrong has fumbled every major decision with the defense since the cup win, but ultimately I think Stillman still trusts him and will keep him around for the rebuild. This is pure speculation, but I also think Armstrong has been a lot more honest with Stillman about the future than he has with the media/fans and will be given the chance to rebuild for the next few years.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think Berube is gone at some point this season or at the end of it. Army is still safe for awhile, at least to see a retool/rebuilt through.

Berube just isn't a good fit with the players we have anymore, and probably for the players coming up. Berube feels like a good coach to manage the players and push the right buttons on a top team, but struggles with the Xs and Os and getting the most out of an inferior squad.

 

[finnishflash13]

I like everyone involved with the Blues Org., including their owners BUT sentimental and rushed decisions were made that have resulted in the team being in a unfamiliar position of currently not being competitive.

They handed out contracts like candy after the Cup win and it's crippled them as it has nearly every other franchise whose won a Cup, etc. They abandoned what got them there.

Armstrong handed out numerous contracts to unproven players while letting proven players walk. Ive only recently come to the conclusion that maybe keeping Pietro was the right idea -- even if he wanted too much. He was horrible in the 2020 Covid PO's and I know that turned some fans off of offering him a large contract but this team is failing without him and others. I hate to admit that. Maybe some of us were OK with it because letting Pujols walk worked out.. BUT DA handed out contracts nearly as large or as large to players that hadnt proven their consistency.

We're fans -- not owners or managers. We hold no real power over personnel decisions but it feels like the fans have been proven correct lately and that is not a good sign.

How long can Armstrong protect Berube and how long can Berube protect Armstrong? How much control over these decisions does the owners have and is Stillman paying attention?

Also, OT -- Schenn is a garbage Captain.. I have to say it. They should have went without a C this season. Just more horrible decision-making.

just because he isn't appearing on the score sheet (who is?) doesn't make him a bad captain. there's a lot more that goes into being captain than scoring. such an asinine take.

even with the current talent level of forwards, this team would be loads better if they re-signed Petro and did not expose Dunn. a top 4 of Parayko, Dunn, Petro, and Faulk. but instead the defense is a joke.

i'd bet that Berube and Armstrong finish their contracts and then they're gone.

 

[PJJJP]

I think Armstrong will be here for at least 2 more years. I do think he has made some poor contract decisions like the Petro/Krug but honestly after 2019 I think we had maybe a 2-3 year window where we could've won another cup. He tried to keep us competitive and in hindsight it didn't work out and it leaves us with some bloated contracts. Berube on the other hand I think will be gone after this year if things don't look good

 

[STL fan in MN]

Berube will be long gone before Doug Armstrong will be. When Armstrong became GM for the Blues in 2010, the Blues were worth $165 million. They are now worth more than $900 million dollars. He is going nowhere as under his leadership the owners have made millions of dollars and won a Stanley Cup. Yes, the Blues aren’t going to be good for a few years but he built a Stanley Cup winner and I‘m sure the owners believe he can do it again. And if he doesn’t they have made Millions and millions of dollars. My guess is when they would look at their future bank accounts they will be extremely happy with what Doug Armstrong has accomplished.

Very good point. Armstrong playing a big part in padding their bank accounts and putting the only Cup banner in the rafters is going to buy a lot of grace and loyalty.

 

[Cotton McKnight]

As bitter as I am for Petro walking, it's hard to be annoyed at Petro when you have Krug and Faulk brought in (neither of which was a good replacement for JBO) and they definitely played in Petro's feelings being hurt enough to spend free agent day in Vegas. I'm over Petro at this point; I'm ready to see some smart moves from the management, and I understand we have to sit with this poor excuse for a team for a while because of bad contracts that would hurt us if we just bought them out. somebody, please let us unload these terrible contracts on you...

Not a fan of Schenn as our captain, he has been a no-show this year and possibly declined faster than expected. To be honest, there have been a lot of no-shows this year (this year is quite young), and I think it should cost Berube his job, or this team needs to start tanking for 1oa.

 

[Blueston]

While Army made mistakes, we need to remember that by trying to win another Cup in our window we created this stale team now. It’s natural hangover. You can’t contend every year. and with 7 #1s in system coming up it’s not like he left things bare. A next wave is coming, it’s just going to be rough couple years.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And if we are able to get a potential #1 D in this draft, then Army will have setup the next core pretty well, and he should probably be able to see the development of Snuggs, Dvorsky, Stenberg, Dean, Lindstein, etc. out.

 

[Majorityof1]

I think Army has the rest of this year and next as leash. If we still suck in year 3, his seat is warm. Berube has this season, and could be fired in the off season if we don't show improvement. But I think he still gets the next season as well.

Army has been as blunt as he can be that we are going through a down year. Stillman knows. He'll give Army time to enact whatever plan he laid out.

 

[Quaz]

Could you imagine if Krug had waived his NTC and we had Sanheim instead of him on D right now? Sanheim has been great for PHI so far this year. Army was trying to make moves to improve the team. This gives me hope that he will be able to eventually make a couple moves to turn things around (may not be till next year).

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm not sure how much credit you can give the guy who cut off his own foot for almost applying a tourniquet. Krug was a self inflicted wound. He almost got Sanheim, but didn't. We had a willing trade partner for Krug and couldn't get it done. That makes me less confident we will be able to move him.

Sanheim has been great looking just at his underlying numbers. I have not watched much Philly this year for the eye test. Unfortunately that means the ship has passed on acquiring him beyond his NTC kicking in.

 

[Thallis]

While Army made mistakes, we need to remember that by trying to win another Cup in our window we created this stale team now. It’s natural hangover. You can’t contend every year. and with 7 #1s in system coming up it’s not like he left things bare. A next wave is coming, it’s just going to be rough couple years.

The problem is the choices he made ended up closing the window faster than it would have if he tried running it back with more or less the same roster. The Cup gives him a huge amount of grace, but he needs to get back on the right foot which is hard due to a situation entirely of his making

 

[Brian39]

Army is under contract through the 2025/26 season and I'd be pretty surprised if he isn't still the GM for game 82 of that season. Maybe he doesn't get extended, but I think he's earned enough leash to see out that season. He has a very good history of building a quality scouting staff and he has a good history of getting good value in trades where we are selling rentals for futures. Even if you believe that he should be fired for NHL roster construction decisions, that isn't really the skillset you're looking for in a rebuild.

If we suck over the duration of his contract, his strengths still provide a valuable skillset for a rebuilding team. If we quickly turn things around, then that is a great argument against firing him.

I think Army's job security goes through at least the end of his existing contract. If he does get relieved of his duties before the contract ends, I think it would be deep into the 2025/26 season.

I think Berube could be as gone as early as this year, but my money would be on him making it to the end of the season. I don't see much benefit to firing him mid-season given the roster we have.

 

[Quaz]

The problem is the choices he made ended up closing the window faster than it would have if he tried running it back with more or less the same roster. The Cup gives him a huge amount of grace, but he needs to get back on the right foot which is hard due to a situation entirely of his making

The pandemic was terrible timing for Army. Had that not happened and the cap continued to go up on the same trajectory it was heading he would have have had plenty of cap space to fix the defense. Last year probably turns out a lot better if they had been able to keep Perron (although I think he could have made that work anyway). The flat cap has caused almost every team in the league to be up against the cap making it extremely difficult to make any moves. Hopefully we will see the cap go up over the next couple of years making it easier to move a couple players to get better balance in the lineup. They may need a shakeup as the current vets aren't good enough to insulate the young prospects they have coming up.

 

[TurgPavs]

I think another way to look at this, is what Army has had to deal with.

Both the Vegas and Seattle expansion drafts.
COVID shut down
The three drinking amigos of Maroon, Edmundson, and Fabbri
JBO damn near dying on the bench
Pizzing off the Team in 2017, when they where 1 point out of the WC when they traded Staz
Pizzing off Schenn, Schwartz, Tarasenko when they named ROR the Captain.
Petro and his agents BS for the whole 19-20 season.
Petro showing up at the bubble after doing nothing physically for 2 months
Tarasenko getting bad advise from his ridiculous agent

I understand the Scandy trade after JBo went down. However that extension was ridiculous.
I will never understand the Faulk Trade. I like Faulk but that trade did nothing but PO Petro and his agent
I still have no idea why they signed T. Krug, but what's more, there was no other market for Krug.
I also understand the Leddy deal, however not the extension.
Not even offering Peron an extension still blows my mind

But one of the real kickers for me is trading for a salary dump in Hayes. Why did that deal even happen?

If you are in as bad of shape as the Blues are in, 2 of your projected starters are going to be cap dumps in Vrana and Hayes, and 1 of your starters is a waiver claim in Kappy.

How in the heck dont you blow up the roster and start your rebuild?

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Chief - Xmas
DA - After the 2024 draft

 

[Majorityof1]

I think another way to look at this, is what Army has had to deal with.

Both the Vegas and Seattle expansion drafts.
COVID shut down
The three drinking amigos of Maroon, Edmundson, and Fabbri
JBO damn near dying on the bench
Pizzing off the Team in 2017, when they where 1 point out of the WC when they traded Staz
Pizzing off Schenn, Schwartz, Tarasenko when they named ROR the Captain.
Petro and his agents BS for the whole 19-20 season.
Petro showing up at the bubble after doing nothing physically for 2 months
Tarasenko getting bad advise from his ridiculous agent

I understand the Scandy trade after JBo went down. However that extension was ridiculous.
I will never understand the Faulk Trade. I like Faulk but that trade did nothing but PO Petro and his agent
I still have no idea why they signed T. Krug, but what's more, there was no other market for Krug.
I also understand the Leddy deal, however not the extension.
Not even offering Peron an extension still blows my mind

But one of the real kickers for me is trading for a salary dump in Hayes. Why did that deal even happen?

If you are in as bad of shape as the Blues are in, 2 of your projected starters are going to be cap dumps in Vrana and Hayes, and 1 of your starters is a waiver claim in Kappy.

How in the heck dont you blow up the roster and start your rebuild?

Completely making stuff up is another way to look at things. Not a good way, but another way.

The only situations Army dealt with that every other team didn't are ones he helped create. Everyone dealt with Covid and a flat cap and expansions.

 

[britishblue]

What happens with Thomas and Kyrou will I suspect determine what happens with Army. He has nailed this franchise to those 2.

I absolutely don't think he will but Kyrou is projecting to 30 points and -50 after 8 games.

 

[Mike Liut]

I don’t see the problem with a 2-3 tank job and rebuild. We aren’t starting from compete scratch, we have a few good young players on the current team and a good prospect pool. Another couple good drafts which should be in the top 5-6, and we’d be loaded.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

What happens with Thomas and Kyrou will I suspect determine what happens with Army. He has nailed this franchise to those 2.

I absolutely don't think he will but Kyrou is projecting to 30 points and -50 after 8 games.

And Kyrou projected worse last season after 10 games and still ended with 35+ goals and 70+ points. Blues wanted him to be better defensively to which he has been noticeably working on. He's still getting his offensive chances but nothing is going it currently. Once he breaks through the wall points will start coming.