How I'd fix this team..

[Pavels Dog]

First and foremost we have to address our goaltending. What do we do there?
Howard. He is the starter, but he struggled a lot. Had Howard had his usual season, we would have finished 5-15 points higher. He had bad playoffs too. What happens with his game next season?
Gustavsson had a great season. He helped the team makes playoffs. Regardless what some say, he was the best backup goalie in the league. But he could not stay healthy and when given a chance he did not run away with it. He is aggressive and overcommits. None of the goals in game 5 were his fault, but his reaction was not the best one. Goal 1, not his fault, broken play, but he overcommits. I don't blame him. Goal 2, a perfect shot, but some goalie stop it. I do not blame him. But goal 3 is very stoppable. Lucic is in too tight to Gustavsson and if Gustavsson goes down he stops it. The exactly same save Rask made on Alfredsson earlier in the game. I guess the brass wanted a look at him, but I donor think he convinced them.

Howard had the flu. Howard had the flu. Howard had the flu. Howard had the flu.

That's literally ALL there is to it. Howard would have played all games if he was healthy.

And Howard got a lot better towards the end of the season. We won't do anything big goaltending-wise. It will be either a new short-term deal for Gustavsson, or more likely letting him go and bringing up Mrazek as the backup. Howard will be fine if we can improve the team in front of him.

 

[blueadams]

I have negative interest in signing Jaromir Jagr. I think he'd look terrible in Babcock's system, kind of like Alfredsson did for much of this year. He'd be saddled with two grinders and he'd have a hard time getting anything done.

I'd rather get Moulson. He's not the fastest, but he plays Babcock hockey in front of the net.

Huh? Datsyuk and Nyquist? That's being saddled with two grinders?

 

[blueadams]

I'm over old guys sorry!! We need younger, bigger, faster, skilled wingers and a true number one two defense pairing!!!

Find them and we'll sign them, pal.

 

[blueadams]

If you want a vet why not just resign Alfie?

Jagr had 70pts this season, dude. Alfie was a healthy scratch in a playoff game.

 

[blueadams]

Mantha will not make the team next year, we have too much forward depth. He may get a few games here and there based on injuries, but let him play for GR all year, learn to play against pros, and then bring him up for 2015/2016. I expect him to be a dominant player in the AHL right away, assuming he gets first line and PP minutes, which he will.

Right. Miller, Glendening, etc. Way too much forward depth.

Good grief.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jimmy Howard was out there for warmups and then they tossed Jonas Gustavsson in cold.

In a pivotal game 4, the Wings wouldn't be playing around trying to send a message or whatever. If he had a concussion, the Wings doctors would not have let him dress to even take warmups. And they probably stuck with Monster in game 5 because he looked really good in game 4 and figured they could trust a healthy Monster to play better than Jimmy Howard coming off of a bad enough flu that he missed a "must-win" game in game 4.

Jimmy had the flu, wanted to go in game 4 and couldn't, as evidenced by him being out for warmups and then going to the locker room. Then, in an elimination game, the Wings turned to the healthy goalie who looked pretty good in game 4 over the returning starter who had the flu bad enough to miss a game 36 hours previously.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Jagr had 70pts this season, dude. Alfie was a healthy scratch in a playoff game.

No he wasn't he had a back issue.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Jimmy Howard was out there for warmups and then they tossed Jonas Gustavsson in cold.

In a pivotal game 4, the Wings wouldn't be playing around trying to send a message or whatever. If he had a concussion, the Wings doctors would not have let him dress to even take warmups. And they probably stuck with Monster in game 5 because he looked really good in game 4 and figured they could trust a healthy Monster to play better than Jimmy Howard coming off of a bad enough flu that he missed a "must-win" game in game 4.

Jimmy had the flu, wanted to go in game 4 and couldn't, as evidenced by him being out for warmups and then going to the locker room. Then, in an elimination game, the Wings turned to the healthy goalie who looked pretty good in game 4 over the returning starter who had the flu bad enough to miss a game 36 hours previously.

i am not 100% convinced he had the flu but do believe he wasnt "healthy" enough to play.

was it a conscussion from being hit in the head in game 3 that flared up once he exerted himself?

given that players play in the playoffs with broken ribs, punctured lungs, broken fibulas, dislocated shoulders etc i would be surprised a guy could be so sick with a cold that he couldnt play in such a meaningful game with all the doctors and therapists in the world at his exposure to get him as ready as possible

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jagr had 70pts this season, dude. Alfie was a healthy scratch in a playoff game.

Alfie was an INJURED scratch in a playoff game.

 

[danincanada]

I don't want any part of Jagr. He'll probably cash in this summer for his great season but I don't see him doing it again next season. I'd rather have Alfie back and I'm not so sure I even want that. Other than Vanek I don't see anyone else worth pursuing.

On defence I want to see them build from within. Let Quincey walk, try to deal Kindl and/or Lashoff and promote whichever young D deserves it most in training camp. Ouellet and Marchenko are probably ready. Backman, Sproul, and Jensen can at least provide a lot of depth for callups and may be ready soon.

I assume Holland won't be able to make a great trade to add a top 4 D or big RHS winger for the top two lines.

 

[Crymson]

given that players play in the playoffs with broken ribs, punctured lungs, broken fibulas, dislocated shoulders etc i would be surprised a guy could be so sick with a cold that he couldnt play in such a meaningful game with all the doctors and therapists in the world at his exposure to get him as ready as possible

It's apparent that you don't know what the flu is.

 

[14ari13]

Howard had the flu. Howard had the flu. Howard had the flu. Howard had the flu.

That's literally ALL there is to it. Howard would have played all games if he was healthy.

And Howard got a lot better towards the end of the season. We won't do anything big goaltending-wise. It will be either a new short-term deal for Gustavsson, or more likely letting him go and bringing up Mrazek as the backup. Howard will be fine if we can improve the team in front of him.

Whether Howard had the flu or not does not matter. Gustavsson played game 4&5 and I do not think he passed the test. Gustavsson got one chance during the season and he failed. One chance is not enough, sure. But the next problem is he gets injured too often. Another problem with him, he plays one game great, next game ok, game after that he sucks and then he gets injured. He got a chance in game 5, he made some great saves, but he let in 3 goal and lost the game.
Howard had a very bad season and very bad playoffs. If the Wings improve defence and forwards, they won't pass round 2 with this goaltending. Why did the Bruins fans taunt Howard? In game 2 Milboughry called Howard Bruins biggest offensive punch. Maybe he turns his game around next season, but if not ...
Mrazek is young. I have no idea what the brass think of him.
Miller is a FA.

 

[Crymson]

Gustavsson has inconsistent play and an inconsistent body. At best he'll get a one-year offer, but maybe not even that.

 

[ap3x]

Many guys mentioning Vanek, is that even realistic to get him?
Why shouldn't the Canadiens resign him or why shouldn't he resign with them?
Sure, Bergevin would be strapped for cap space, if the Canadiens wanted to make any additional moves in the immediate future.
Plus, probably he has to take care of Subban's and Markov's contracts first. But a guy like Vanek could (or even should) be worth it.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Whether Howard had the flu or not does not matter. Gustavsson played game 4&5 and I do not think he passed the test. Gustavsson got one chance during the season and he failed. One chance is not enough, sure. But the next problem is he gets injured too often. Another problem with him, he plays one game great, next game ok, game after that he sucks and then he gets injured. He got a chance in game 5, he made some great saves, but he let in 3 goal and lost the game.
Howard had a very bad season and very bad playoffs. If the Wings improve defence and forwards, they won't pass round 2 with this goaltending. Why did the Bruins fans taunt Howard? In game 2 Milboughry called Howard Bruins biggest offensive punch. Maybe he turns his game around next season, but if not ...
Mrazek is young. I have no idea what the brass think of him.
Miller is a FA.

Gustavsson played very well in his two games.

He gave up three goals in game 4, the first one was a rip from the point that pinballed off of a Bruin and then a Red Wing stick. Not his fault. Second, Nyquist blew his coverage on Lucic and he was left alone in front with all kinds of time. Gus maybe should have gotten it, but this would have been a stellar save. The OT game winner bounced off of like five guys and only went in because of Dekeyser's hip.

He answered the bell in game 4 on short notice and played exceptionally well. Had the Wings been able to keep up the pressure on the Bruins up 2-0, they win that game.

I stopped watching game 5, so I can't speak to his play in that one (I stopped watching because my friend from out of town was there and I didn't want to risk seeing a Wings loss and subsequently feel pissy about it for his entire visit.)

Gustavsson was not the reason they lost this series. Howard was not the reason they lost this series. The fact that they scored 6 goals and that Pavel Datsyuk at about 65% scored 3 of them and was the Wings best player was.

You can't score 6 goals in 5 games and win. It just doesn't happen. That is not being remotely fair to the goalies to blame them for losing a series in which the offense scored 6 goals.

 

[Brick Top]

I assume Holland won't be able to make a great trade to add a top 4 D or big RHS winger for the top two lines.

That's one of the safest assumptions you'll ever make.

Despite having a surplus of skilled forward and defense prospects, and having pretty obvious needs to upgrade the top 4 D and add a goal scoring F with size to the top 6, I'd be shocked to see him pull off a big trade.

 

[Frk It]

That's one of the safest assumptions you'll ever make.

Despite having a surplus of skilled forward and defense prospects, and having pretty obvious needs to upgrade the top 4 D and add a goal scoring F with size to the top 6, I'd be shocked to see him pull off a big trade.

What's the point of selling the farm for a goal scorer with size, when we have Mantha on his way in ~2 years? (<<holland said as much it will be that long)

Top 4 D, a need absolutely.

I think we're fine at forward. Jurco has some physicality with a high ceiling too.

 

[Brick Top]

What's the point of selling the farm for a goal scorer with size, when we have Mantha on his way in ~2 years? (<<holland said as much it will be that long)

Top 4 D, a need absolutely.

I think we're fine at forward. Jurco has some physicality with a high ceiling too.

There isn't going to be room for most/all of the skilled kids coming up in the system, and not many of them look to be effective bottom 6ers. And there clearly isn't going to be room for the young D with Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith and DeKeyser seeming to be locks for the next handful of years.

Top 4 D is certainly the higher priority, but I also wouldn't mind have Mantha plus another physical scorer in the top 6. Not to mention the clock's ticking on how much longer Z & D are going to be at a healthy, elite level. Waiting for Mantha to arrive and then establish himself probably would be with a Wings team with a slower, rundown Zetterberg and Datsyuk playing the KHL.

 

[Ricelund]

Many guys mentioning Vanek, is that even realistic to get him?
Why shouldn't the Canadiens resign him or why shouldn't he resign with them?
Sure, Bergevin would be strapped for cap space, if the Canadiens wanted to make any additional moves in the immediate future.
Plus, probably he has to take care of Subban's and Markov's contracts first. But a guy like Vanek could (or even should) be worth it.

I think there's a chance.

The Wings have a ton of cap space and they could use another guy to carry the goal scoring load as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen age. He can be a bridge between the Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen era and the Nyquist/Mantha/Tatar/Jurco/Sheahan/Pulkkinen era.

As I posted earlier, I've also heard that Chris Ilitch wants to add a star player.

I'm just not sure the Wings believe in putting huge money towards wingers.

 

[VM1138]

What's the point of selling the farm for a goal scorer with size, when we have Mantha on his way in ~2 years? (<<holland said as much it will be that long)

Top 4 D, a need absolutely.

I think we're fine at forward. Jurco has some physicality with a high ceiling too.

Holland thinks Mantha will be with the Wings within a year or a year and a half. That's good that they think they have the real deal with Mantha.

As for the comments about pulling off a trade for a defenseman, I think that Niskanen or Boyle will probably serve if a trade can't be worked out, as both are UFAs. I just think Holland won't be so tight with the checkbook this time to make sure he doesn't get outbid. I'm a little worried about Niskanen. Every year there's a player that everyone raves about who disappears the next few seasons, I hope he's not one of them if we get him.

 

[14ari13]

Gustavsson played very well in his two games.

He gave up three goals in game 4, the first one was a rip from the point that pinballed off of a Bruin and then a Red Wing stick. Not his fault. Second, Nyquist blew his coverage on Lucic and he was left alone in front with all kinds of time. Gus maybe should have gotten it, but this would have been a stellar save. The OT game winner bounced off of like five guys and only went in because of Dekeyser's hip.

He answered the bell in game 4 on short notice and played exceptionally well. Had the Wings been able to keep up the pressure on the Bruins up 2-0, they win that game.

I stopped watching game 5, so I can't speak to his play in that one (I stopped watching because my friend from out of town was there and I didn't want to risk seeing a Wings loss and subsequently feel pissy about it for his entire visit.)

Gustavsson was not the reason they lost this series. Howard was not the reason they lost this series. The fact that they scored 6 goals and that Pavel Datsyuk at about 65% scored 3 of them and was the Wings best player was.

You can't score 6 goals in 5 games and win. It just doesn't happen. That is not being remotely fair to the goalies to blame them for losing a series in which the offense scored 6 goals.

Our PK was the worst of all playoff teams. They say your goalie is the key to PK.
Howard allowed 4 soft/softish games in game 2. FOUR. It set the tone for the series.
We can't go deep in the playoffs with this goaltending.

 

[VM1138]

I think there's a chance.

The Wings have a ton of cap space and they could use another guy to carry the goal scoring load as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen age. He can be a bridge between the Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen era and the Nyquist/Mantha/Tatar/Jurco/Sheahan/Pulkkinen era.

As I posted earlier, I've also heard that Chris Ilitch wants to add a star player.

I'm just not sure the Wings believe in putting huge money towards wingers.

FSD suggested the Wings might be interested in getting Hossa back. If it's true Illitch wants a star, that's a good sign. I like that he's following in his dad's footsteps as far as willingness to spend to ice a good club.

I think that despite Holland's statement that Franzen is safe, I think he and Babcock are done counting on him as our big scoring guy. He's no longer (if he ever was) a reliable member of the scoring Triumvirate. They need a more reliable guy, even if he scores 5 goals less a year. So I do see them pushing for a winger to push Franzen down the depth chart where he'll be more comfortable and useful.

I'd rather have a shockingly productive third liner (25 goals) than a disappointingly bad second liner (25 goals in 15 games).

 

[Frk It]

There isn't going to be room for most/all of the skilled kids coming up in the system, and not many of them look to be effective bottom 6ers. And there clearly isn't going to be room for the young D with Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith and DeKeyser seeming to be locks for the next handful of years.

Top 4 D is certainly the higher priority, but I also wouldn't mind have Mantha plus another physical scorer in the top 6. Not to mention the clock's ticking on how much longer Z & D are going to be at a healthy, elite level. Waiting for Mantha to arrive and then establish himself probably would be with a Wings team with a slower, rundown Zetterberg and Datsyuk playing the KHL.

Good point, just read an article on MLive where Holland agrees with you.

I am down with trading some valuable prospects for a legit D, Id just rather try to find a big scoring winger in free agency. I think Jagr or Setoguchi could be had til Mantha is ready.

 

[Brick Top]

Good point, just read an article on MLive where Holland agrees with you.

I am down with trading some valuable prospects for a legit D, Id just rather try to find a big scoring winger in free agency. I think Jagr or Setoguchi could be had til Mantha is ready.

Saw that you quoted the article in the other thread... glad it's on Kenny's radar, but not confident he has the stones to move some of his young assets to bring in a solid top 4 D (I'd trade for a legit top pairing guy if I was KH).

Not a fan of the D options on the market so hopefully Kenny goes against type and pulls off a major trade for a D and signs a scoring winger (while not bringing Fredo back).

Honestly, I think the Hank/Pavel factor should give Kenny some urgency to be aggressive this offseason in upgrading the team. Can't believe that Datsyuk will be 36 when next season begins... where the hell has the time gone??!! Anyway, they're both getting older and guys don't usually become LESS injury prone as they age (not to mention Z already plays older than his 33 years and I don't see his game aging gracefully as his speed continues to diminish... not even bringing up the back issues here).

The Wings have the assets and cap space to make a major move or two without gutting the farm system, so the time to do it is now in the last few great years for Z & D and in a weaker EC.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Our PK was the worst of all playoff teams. They say your goalie is the key to PK.
Howard allowed 4 soft/softish games in game 2. FOUR. It set the tone for the series.
We can't go deep in the playoffs with this goaltending.

Game 2... Howard gave up the one terrible goal. Florek's goal was abysmal and shouldn't have happened.

Reilly Smith's goal was simply because the Wings were overwhelmed. The Bruins had a 5 on 3 and were buzzing. Howard made a number of saves on the really dangerous part of the 5 on 3 and Smith only scored because the puck trickled through. That was a good hard-fought playoff goal, not really a softie. Goal #3 was entirely on Brendan Smith. He let Lucic and Iginla swoop in like it was a 2 on 0... and Howard damn near made the save.

Goal 4 was again, hard work by the Bruins and terrible defense by the Wings. Lashoff had his stick up around Chara's waist while he put the puck through Howard from point-blank range. Lashoff plays it right and ties Chara's stick up and there is no goal or it is a slow roll that Howard can pounce on and cover up.

Howard was nowhere near as bad as advertised. He was worse than Rask, but that's because Rask was dynamite. Howard made some gigantic saves in this series that went completely unnoticed to keep games like Game 2 within striking distance for the majority of play. I mean, in Game 3 the Bruins had like 10 scoring chances in the first to Detroit's zero, yet it was, what, 1-0 after one?

The Wings hung Howard and Gustavsson out to dry in this series. The Bruins were entering the Wings zone with impunity and could set up at will. The Wings couldn't enter the Bruins zone to start anything, and when they did, it got blocked on its way to Rask. When they got really good opportunities, they beat Rask... they just got far fewer opportunities like that and when they did get them, they missed the net on about 80% of them.

But no, what set the tone for the series was Detroit's inability to do a damn thing on the PP. I mean, they were playing even to better 5-on-5 and then they'd all of a sudden be unable to do a damn thing on the PP when they had an extra skater.

Did Howard and Gustavsson play well enough to win this series? Obviously not. However, the only game that the Wings were truly out of was Game 3... and that was on the offense for getting ZERO chances in the first period and not really picking it up much even after that.

Howard can and does need to play better, but it's just lazy to point the finger solely at him.