Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Obviously, a power forward.
At his peak, a left-shooting Cam Neely. A fearless hitter and fighter. Neely handled the puck better, could do more with it on a rush. But Secord had a wicked wrister and didn't mind getting in front of the net. Seems to me he had some kind of stomach muscle problem that plagued him for years. He only played 14 games in 83-84. He was only 25 and I don't think he was ever the same after that.
Thanks.
Do you remember if he played on the same line as Denis Savard and Steve Larmer ?
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
Yes he did.
Because Savard was a playmaking right handed center, a relative rarity, his LW's tended to overachieve in comparison to their performance with other centers. Another example is Daryl Sutter 40+ goal campaign as Savard's LW.
Wrong. Darryl Sutter was Tom Lysiak's winger, and gave him a lot of credit for his success. Unfortunately, it was one of only two seasons which Sutter made it through injury-free.
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Kristoleblanc, Secord was a strong power forward with a nose for the net who did well for himself without an abundance of pure talent. I think the great portion of his offensive success in his years with Chicago can be attributed to his playing with Denis Savard in the prime of his career. Secord would provide extra room (protection) for Savard, who with his skating ability and talent could draw two defenders and get the puck to Secord. It was a combination of circumstances and guys working well together. Steve Larmer complemented those two well in that he was a good defensive forward and a sniper in his own right. I don't believe Secord would have had the success he did if he had not played with Savard, but, again, that line worked very well as a team.
Secord-Savard-Larmer was one of the best lines back in the early '80's. What I remember is that he got hurt one year and missed most of the season and never got back to way he played. He then got moved to Toronto where he didn't do much.
Right. Early in the 1983-84 season, the campaign after his 50-goal season, he suffered that stomach muscle injury and missed almost all of the season. He only played about 51 games in 1984-85 and only scored about 15 goals. In 1985-86 the Savard-Secord-Larmer line was reunited on a regular basis and he had a 40-goal season. He started off 1986-87 strongly as well, but after about early January he went into a horrible goal-scoring slump and finished with 29. In early September 1987 he was traded to Toronto, and never came close to realizing the scoring totals of earlier in his career, in his final 3 years in the league.
Probably an over-rated player historically because his goal/PIM numbers look great on paper.
Put up numbers for a few seasons while on a brilliant line with two HHOF-calibre players (yes, I know Larmer isn't in, but he isn't far away) but otherwise never showed himself to be more than a 20-20-40 player.
Yes, what Secord brought to the table helped make that line great and he was a great fit for those other players, but in terms of his raw goal production, it probably wasn't an accurate reflection of his ability - similar to what happened to Glen Murray and Jonathan Cheechoo when playing with Joe Thornton ... 25-goal players who turned into 40-50 goal scorers because of their linemates.
Secord was also noted as a pretty mediocre defensive player and mediocre skater.
Of the 'power forwards' who posted 40+ goal seasons in the NHL, I'd probably rate Secord as the worst - certainly he was nowhere near a Neely or Shanahan or Roberts or Gillies in terms of overall ability.
Put up numbers for a few seasons while on a brilliant line with two HHOF-calibre players (yes, I know Larmer isn't in, but he isn't far away) but otherwise never showed himself to be more than a 20-20-40 player.
Yes, what Secord brought to the table helped make that line great and he was a great fit for those other players, but in terms of his raw goal production, it probably wasn't an accurate reflection of his ability - similar to what happened to Glen Murray and Jonathan Cheechoo when playing with Joe Thornton ... 25-goal players who turned into 40-50 goal scorers because of their linemates.
Secord was also noted as a pretty mediocre defensive player and mediocre skater.
Of the 'power forwards' who posted 40+ goal seasons in the NHL, I'd probably rate Secord as the worst - certainly he was nowhere near a Neely or Shanahan or Roberts or Gillies in terms of overall ability.
rafterman
Registered User
SECORD SUCKS !!!
Sorry, just my inner long lost North Star fandom reverting back to the 80's. Geez we hated that guy.
...carry on with real comments on the topic....
Sorry, just my inner long lost North Star fandom reverting back to the 80's. Geez we hated that guy.
...carry on with real comments on the topic....
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Bang on, Secord was a guy who really benefited from playing with those 2 guys, a lesser Clark Gillies IMO.
Bang on as well, Larmer is one guy who is better than his stats.
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
You're right. For whatever reason I always thought Sutter's 40 goal year came in one of Secord's injury years in the mid-80's, but it was actually 81.
reckoning
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I don't know that I'd call him a "power forward" because speed should be part of that and Secord wasn't very fast. But he was strong, and no defenceman was going to outmuscle or push him around.
Sure he benefited from his linemates, but this isn't a Warren Young situation. The Hawks benefited from him too. It's worth noting that when he missed most of the 83-84 season, Savard and Larmer both saw their point totals drop. In Secord's last season with Chicago before the trade to Toronto, he was on a line with Wayne Presley who scored 32 goals, a total Presley never came close to matching the rest of his career.
An interesting statistic that Secord did very well in is Total Goals For that a player was on the ice for but didn't get a goal or assist on. He led all forwards in it in '83 and '86, and finished 2nd in '82. While some may look at that as nothing important, to me it shows a player who contributes to offence in ways that don't always show up on the scoring summary: i.e. screening the goalie, keeping a defenceman occupied/distracted to make more room for your linemates, etc.
Sure he benefited from his linemates, but this isn't a Warren Young situation. The Hawks benefited from him too. It's worth noting that when he missed most of the 83-84 season, Savard and Larmer both saw their point totals drop. In Secord's last season with Chicago before the trade to Toronto, he was on a line with Wayne Presley who scored 32 goals, a total Presley never came close to matching the rest of his career.
An interesting statistic that Secord did very well in is Total Goals For that a player was on the ice for but didn't get a goal or assist on. He led all forwards in it in '83 and '86, and finished 2nd in '82. While some may look at that as nothing important, to me it shows a player who contributes to offence in ways that don't always show up on the scoring summary: i.e. screening the goalie, keeping a defenceman occupied/distracted to make more room for your linemates, etc.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
To which extent would you consider speed a part of being a power forward? I don't recall Cam Neely being a speedster or Brendan Shanahan for that matter either. I mean they weren't Derian Hatcher in his mid 30s but when I think of a speedy NHL forward I'm thinking Bure or even a guy like Matt Lombardi.
reckoning
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Neely was much faster than Secord, but I understand what you're saying. The term is overused as everyone has their own definition, but for me it was always a combination of scoring, hitting and (to a smaller degree) speed. I don't think Bure could be considered one because there was no physicality in his game.
To me, the ultimate power forward was Mark Messier. And his speed added a dimension to his play that other forwards with that label didn't have in that he could just run people over.
Slapshooter
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In 1981-82 Al Secord scored 44 goals and fought 28 times. Counting playoffs, the feat is 46 goals and 31 fights. Pretty damn impressive.
As a power forward, I don't think Secord was nearly as strong or feared body checker as say Neely and Lindros were. Rick Tocchet, Wendel Clark and Brendan Shanahan were better power forwards too, all things considered.
Secord was more like the most aggressive fighter-sniper ever
As a power forward, I don't think Secord was nearly as strong or feared body checker as say Neely and Lindros were. Rick Tocchet, Wendel Clark and Brendan Shanahan were better power forwards too, all things considered.
Secord was more like the most aggressive fighter-sniper ever
Slapshooter
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I don't consider a speed being part of the power forward definition. Yes, the speed helps in hitting and scoring, but being an old school power forward meant IMO all these things:
-A very good goal scorer
-A very good hitter/body checker
-A good fighter who could drop the gloves with anyone, even with heavy weights.
-An aggressive and intensive playing style
-Cannot be intimidated
-Strongly built physique, so the player is strong near the boards, in corners and in front of the net.
-A very good goal scorer
-A very good hitter/body checker
-A good fighter who could drop the gloves with anyone, even with heavy weights.
-An aggressive and intensive playing style
-Cannot be intimidated
-Strongly built physique, so the player is strong near the boards, in corners and in front of the net.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Excellent point.
I'd imagine Ryan Smyth and Gary Roberts are the types that fair well in that category also.
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
I barely remember Secord playing as I was just a very young kid, but I do see some down playing of what the man accomplished. From what I do remember the man was a power forward. Played the game tough, fought, created room for his linemates, and scored plenty of goals.
I think it is tricky when a player plays alongside two other talented players and puts up bigtime stats; we dont know if it is because of him or his linemates. I think it was a mix of both as Savard was an absolute magician who I am sure helped Secord out a ton. But I would also say Secord helped both Larmer and Savard as well. He was their bouncer, he protected them on the ice, and helped to create more room for them and screen goalies. I think the line worked on all levels, and though Secord may not have had the overall talent of Shanahan (Neely is one of the most overrated players ever, Secord over him imo), he still performed well above many of those other power forwards from his era.
I remember the legion of doom line forming, and saw how John Leclair was putting up these amazing numbers. Everyone said it was all because of Lindros. Then Lindros gets injured for the first of 234 times, and low and behold, Leclair was still a goal scoring monster. I think it is a tricky thing as we just dont know how Secord would have performed without Savard. But similar things were said about Leclair, and he proved everyone wrong and was one of the best power forwards of the 90's without Lindros many nights. I think Secord deserves more credit as he is being judged in circumstance as his totals were inflated because of his linemates, but we dont know what kind of early years he would have had without Savy. He was just as much a part of that line as Larmer and Savard.
I think it is tricky when a player plays alongside two other talented players and puts up bigtime stats; we dont know if it is because of him or his linemates. I think it was a mix of both as Savard was an absolute magician who I am sure helped Secord out a ton. But I would also say Secord helped both Larmer and Savard as well. He was their bouncer, he protected them on the ice, and helped to create more room for them and screen goalies. I think the line worked on all levels, and though Secord may not have had the overall talent of Shanahan (Neely is one of the most overrated players ever, Secord over him imo), he still performed well above many of those other power forwards from his era.
I remember the legion of doom line forming, and saw how John Leclair was putting up these amazing numbers. Everyone said it was all because of Lindros. Then Lindros gets injured for the first of 234 times, and low and behold, Leclair was still a goal scoring monster. I think it is a tricky thing as we just dont know how Secord would have performed without Savard. But similar things were said about Leclair, and he proved everyone wrong and was one of the best power forwards of the 90's without Lindros many nights. I think Secord deserves more credit as he is being judged in circumstance as his totals were inflated because of his linemates, but we dont know what kind of early years he would have had without Savy. He was just as much a part of that line as Larmer and Savard.
reckoning
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I wonder if Harry Sinden ever regretted trading Secord away. He never had much icetime in Boston, but flourished in Chicago on the top line with lots of PP time. I think he could've been just as successful on a line with Middleton and Pederson as he was with Savard and Larmer. Plus, having a skilled player who could also be an enforcer would mean one less roster spot wasted on a goon in Sinden's unending futile attempts to intimidate Montreal at playoff time in the 80s.
He was good enough that opposing fans still think this.
Not scientific, but hate/fear by opposing fans is a good sign that the guy was good, unless there's a specific cheap shot that comes to mind. (Did anyone else spend five video game years using McSorley or Beukeboom to cross-check Gary Suter in the face at every opportunity?)
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Those Bruins teams needed a Mike O'Connell more than a Secord. They had plenty of muscle. Certainly Secord would have produced, but I think Harry was OK with what O'Connell gave them.
As for Sinden trying to intimidate Montreal, in O'Connel's first full season in Boston, the Bruins had 2 players with over a 100 PIM. Montreal had 5.
