How do you fix the Wings?

heyfolks

Registered User
Apr 30, 2007
1,820
569
Spring, Ghost and Kane are gone. That dough goes to Luc and/or Mo.
Perron is signed (at the same base.)
Reimer is offered a modest increase and returns.
Fischer is offered a modest increase and leaves.
Holl is waived, clears and is bought out.

Veleno - I wouldn't be surprised if he is offered in a package or just let go.... BUT with no centers after Larkin worth a darn, he may get $1M for a year.

NET: Stays the same

D: Add Simon and Johansson

Wingers: Said every year, but I think Yzerman will look for a heavy body,who will actually use it. Bergy makes the roster.
WILD CARD: Kasper comes up as a winger.

Centers: Must sign a #2 center. Whatever has to be done cap wise, will be done.
WILD CARD: Danielson makes the opening day roster as the #3 center.

WILD CARDS: Yes, I am calling them as my shots. BOTH will occur. Kasper may not be up opening night, but by 1-1-25.

Younger = Simon, Johansson, Bergy, Danielson and a mid-year add of Kasper.

UFA/Trade = #2 Center and someone, anyone who can hit on the Wing.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,838
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Detroit
Realistically here goes..

1. Husso and Lyon will be run back so I expect no change in nets

2. Matta and Holl 100% need to be removed from the roster and a guy like Pesce signed in FA

3. Fabbri 100% needs to go either as the cap dump in a trade or solely to free up cap space..A new 2nd line high-end winger must be brought in either via trade or free agency, ie Buch, Stamkos, Guentzel, Marchesssault, etc

4 i expect us to resign Perron, Veleno and Fischer and maybe sign a cheap vet like Perry. I think Kane signs elsewhere

5. I expect Berggren and Johansson on the roster


DBC-Larkin-Ray
XXX-Compher-Beggren
Rasmussen-Copp-Perron
Fischer-Veleno-Perry

Seider-Walman
Edvinsson-Pesce
Chariot-Johansson
Petry

Husso
Lyon
 
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Coach Reggie Dunlop

Registered User
Jun 9, 2021
926
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Michigan
Step 1: secure goaltending. Getting a legit NHL starter is a must, if we need to give up draft capital to get that at this point then so be it. I’d go after markstrom in Calgary.

Step 2: cut out the dead weight that is aging vets and actually add youth. Gonna need ol Stevie to stop doing a Ken Holland impression to achieve this one. Holl, maata, copp, fabbri, Petry. All of their days should be numbered. Surprise surprise the logjam we all harped about before the season ended up hurting us

Step 3: add toughness. This team wilts at any sort of forecheck and physicality. They absolutely need to add toughness. Draft size and tough mentality and go after guys like that in trades. Go after a guy like xhekaj. Just do stuff like that.

Step 4: stop handing out bad contracts. For the love of god we need to give out extensions now, they will actually severally hurt us.

And then just time and development.
 

Twinger

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
72
21
Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson. 1C, 1W, 1D and 2D. That's the top of your lineup that you build around. And if Lalonde is smart he won't let DeBrincat leave the bench without Larkin.

Cossa is trending very strongly. Kasper is looking to be at worst a very good 3C. Danielson is looking like he's got 2C or better potential.

The potential of the core is tremendous. And like I said, scoring by committee. With strong depth you're going to win more than you lose. It's the fringes of this lineup and goaltending that need real work.
Flyer's still out on edvinsson until a full season. Mo will probably get some Norris votes in the near future. But if they're the core we need a really strong supporting cast.

I would say we're going for that St Louis/Vegas style team to contend

We're missing that 2nd line center and Danielson could be it and I've come around on him but timeline is 3-4(?) years if he can be. I'm a fan of scoring by committee but wonder if we lose ghost and Kane how our other guys numbers will look/pp
 

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
9,849
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The main issue with the team is that the timeline is off, you have a #1 C in his prime but you're also rebuilding at the same time and also acquiring a lot of vets. And the free agent signings mostly sucking isn't helping. So you are not accumulating top level prospects and also not being that good. What I personally would have done is trade Larkin for a big haul 1-2 years ago (and have the additional effect of the team being worse and having better picks) and done a more true rebuild . Now, you just have to hope that the prospects can make an impact as quickly as possible since Larkin is edging towards 30.
Keep your hands out of Larkin.
 
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Roomba With a Bauer

Registered User
Sep 11, 2007
4,345
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Think anyone expecting Kasper and Danielson in the top 9 or on the roster to start the season will be pretty disappointed. Yzerman mentioned Kasper wasn't even an option this year, can't see him becoming our #3 center when we have Larkin, Copp and Compher. Danielson likely gets 2 years in the AHL unless he flourishes immediately.
Kasper will start in the AHL, but Danielson should have been on the NHL roster this season.
 

Our Lady Peace

Registered User
Aug 12, 2014
2,970
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BC
Let Reimer walk, and maybe buy out Husso if you can;
• buyout will last two years and cost 1.58m for 2 years

Next, find a reliable, actual starting goaltender as a stopgap for 1 or 2 years. Markstrom would fit that (2 more years after this season on his 6M deal) but he turns 35 next January so maybe Cossa can be eased into the 1B role if there's injuries as he's waivers eligible

Remove Petry and Holl from the defense for sure;
• Petry buyout is 1.59m next year and 375k the year after
• Holl buyout is 1.1m for 4 years so while cheap, I'd rather not constrain this team for 4 years. Maybe trade him as a cap dump to like San Jose?
• Buyout per season is two, so I'd rather get Petry out (turns 37 in December) and Husso out who's a lost experiment and too injured, that is, if we find a good suitable #1 goalie

If you can reel in a Peace or a Matt Roy on RD then letting Ghost walk becomes easier on the Seider defensive workload and he can run PP1. Allow Albert Johansson to prove himself in preseason to see if he's NHL-ready

Run with:

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Pesce/Roy
Chiarot - Johansson
Maatta

Markstrom
Lyon


I'll give Lalonde the benefit of the doubt if we secure the defense a bit more and if he can actually use Seider effectively. Also Yzerman clearly believes in him at this point in time
 

lidstromiscool

Registered User
May 5, 2007
1,749
1,144
Looking at some of these lineups without Kane/Gostisbehere/Perron, combined with the same goalie duo, combined with shooting percentage regression doesn't leave me feeling all that great about next year. Especially because 6 teams in the East are a given to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,408
2,491
I just have to say, and this is going to be hyperbole, but reading through some of the threads recently relating to how we're going to allocate cap space and build our roster for next season, you'd think the sky was falling and that every contract on our books is as bad as the 7x$4.25M Abdelkader deluxe. It seems like a lot of the members of this board would essentially run this organization as if we were a poverty expansion franchise with shaky owners, struggling to hit the cap floor due to extreme conservative spending and fielding a roster flooded with teens being rushed into the NHL.

With that being said, I also dislike the Copp, Holl, and Chiarot contracts. I generally really like Yzerman's moves but he is human, he has his vices. I'm thinking of Holl and Chiarot specifically because I personally would have never signed the players just based on the principle of "they aren't very good and make bad plays too often." But Yzerman historically does like big dumb defenseman. Who remembers Coburn's Lightning days? Thank goodness we are drafting enough talented D to eventually push these guys out.

I have a lot of the same ideas as others here. I think trading away Fabbri and Maatta is realistic because I think the term and cap hit relative to player is very manageable and we may even get positive value in the right scenario moving those guys out. They're both fine players but making a bit too much relative to their role on the team currently. I think once the dust settles in the second week of July we could find takers, teams who have swung and missed on FAs of similar calibre the week prior who want to shore up depth.

Steve's big summer project is convincing San Jose or Chicago that Justin Holl is worth rostering for the next two seasons. Hopefully that type of move doesn't need anything too rich attached to make it happen.

I would take back Perron and Fischer on short term deals, 1 or max 2 years each and maybe a slight raise for Fischer and a pretty big reduction on Perron. something like ~$2.5M for Perron and ~$1.2M for Fischer.

See if you can find a deal to give Husso a fresh start elsewhere. I don't think it is mandatory like some others and would be fine running with Lyon and Husso for a year, but if we could trade him for some slight positive value and sign a comparable goalie for ~1/2 the cost, that makes a lot of sense to me.

Give Berggren and Johansson good opportunities to make the team as they will face waivers if they don't.

I also have to say I'm a little shocked to see the univeral opinion on this board be that Raymond and Seider are for sure going to have cap hits in the $8M range or higher. There have been a few instances where Steve's spending has shocked me when it comes to extending or re-signing guys we already have in-house (thinking of Fabbri's contracts here) but I think back to his Tampa days and he really played hardball there with Stamkos and a few other players over his years managing that team. Seider and Raymond are very significant young players, but they are coming off their ELCs and have as little leverage as they'll ever have in terms of pointing to an NHL resume. With that being said, their limited resumes are very impressive. But I am tempering my expectations compared to most/ all on here, I think. We'll see pretty shortly I guess.

DeBrincat - Larkin - Raymond
x - Compher - Berggren
Rasmussen - Copp - Fischer
x - Veleno - Perron

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - x
Chiarot - Petry
Johansson

Lyon
Husso

I think Lalonde may have to look at breaking up Larkin and Raymond at even strength for roster balance, but it depends on who Detroit has filling those openings. Lots of options in the UFA pool for a top/ middle 6 winger. I really like Arvidsson and I don't think he'd break the bank. But again there are a lot of names and I'd be fine with most of them. The other open roster spot will be there for competition for guys like Danielson, Kasper, Mazur, Soderblom, etc. to compete for. We can just sign a guy for a million bucks and call it a day if none of them are ready.

For the second pair RD spot, my preference is Matt Roy. Michigan guy and about the right age to bridge the gap. Petry will be gone after this year and I think eventually Walman and Chiarot will lose their spots to Johansson, Wallinder, Buium, or some other kids who are further away from the NHL but who are going to make strides quicker than we think. Roy can hang around for multiple years eating hard minutes and opening up Seider for more offensive opportunities. Pushing Petry down into a #6/7 role is crucial. I don't know if Tuomisto will ever be an impact NHLer but I think the need is great enough for a top 4 right shot guy like Roy that you can make a decent splash on him and sleep easy, even if it is something in the ballpark of ~5x5 or 6x6 for a guy who only puts up about 25 points a season.

Interested to see what Steve does in the next few months.
 
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dragonballgtz

Registered User
Jul 30, 2014
1,901
863
How do you fix the Wings?

  1. You need to figure out the second line
  2. Need to get players who play a heavy game
  3. Need to figure out the goalie situation
  4. Upgrade defense if possible

Second line issues:
The second line is a mess. You're either keeping Kane to anchor the 2nd line or breaking up the top line.

My armchair GM moves would be to move Fabbri and Copp, let Sprong walk, and keep Kane. Maybe Buffalo is stupid enough to move Tuch.

Heavy physical game players:
When need a couple more players that play a heavy game on the 4th line. Maybe even 2nd line if we keep Kane.

Goalie:
Maybe the league is lacking in true starter quality goaltending but we need to find one. The reclamation projects start off good then bomb.

Upgrade defense:
This is gonna be interesting due to the contracts the team has already committed too. I'm torn on keeping Ghost or not. If you are keeping Ghost then two of Petry, Maatta, or Holl needs to go. And personally I'd rather have Maatta over Petry or Holl.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,317
7,657
Bellingham, WA
I figured it out.

Step 1: Move the team to a different city
Step 2: Get an expansion team in Detroit

The last 2 expansion teams have made the playoffs within 2 years of existence. Had Chris sold the team when his dad died, we'd have a playoff team by now.

(It's pretty sad if you think about it. When the Seattle expansion draft happened, I said their roster looked better than the Wings. They waived Cholo....)
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,032
8,783
They don’t need fixing. Keep making improvements.
Fundamentally this is absolutely true. As long as:

1) Yzerman continues to be willing to move on from players that have not worked out; and

2) Yzerman balances the "draft and stash" approach with "break some eggs to make the omelette". He needs to keep pursuing hockey trades to supplement the gradual influx of youth.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
8,563
3,037
Imprisonment, TN
goo.gl
Yzerman need to draft/develop some late round steals. Difference makers.

What does the cap look like after our RFAs get their significant raises?
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
17,209
18,331
Teams to look at as trade partners:
Calgary
St. Louis
Arizona
Winnipeg
Minnesota

Teams to target to take cap dumps:
San Jose
Chicago
Anaheim

I’m still in favor of a blockbuster with Calgary. Trading for Blake Coleman and Markstrom would upgrade mid 6 and goaltending. Fabbri and Husso going the other way gives Calgary expiring deals to fill the roles and give them flexibility.

I’d look at Parayko or Faulk in St. Louis for 2RD duties. Whichever can skate best.
 

OneMoreTry

Registered User
Sep 26, 2021
297
213
First - accept the fact that today's NHL gets faster and faster every year - and therefore let Sprong and Perron walk. Can't afford to waste cap on a winger who is too streaky and skates not good enough, and another winger who is so slow that he should just retire.
 

OldnotDeadWings

Registered User
Sep 18, 2013
300
287
"Fix" is not the right word here IMO if you're actually motivated by what's best for the Wings long-term. "Fixing" the team implies it only needs a couple repairs, a couple new parts to not just make the playofs, but win a couple series. I don't see any amount of realistic fixes that will do that. Not with Raymond and Seider eating up a good chunk of the Cap space available with what should be long-term deals. Fixes imply there are trade solutions. There could be and it's a reasonable option, but it's a waste of time IMO trying to imagine what those trades would be. Guys the right age with the right salary and the right skill sets you imagine would be great additions are probably not available for the same reason you want them.

Minus "fixes" that aren't worth wasting time imagining, the way forward for me is not trying to fix anything immediately apart from goaltending. Just let the team grow. I don't care about making the playoffs next season or pushing up into the high 90s in points. I want to have a team ready to compete for something more than just making the playoffs in 3-4 years while Larkin is still at or near the top of his game. When just one key FA signing or trade acquisition could make an immediate difference.

That means starting to weed out stuff that gets in the way of growth, players you know won't be here or good enough in 3-4 years. It means starting the necessary growth period (100-200 NHL games) for Danielson, AlJo, Kasper sooner rather than later, giving Berggren a chance and creating roster opportunities for other young guys (Wallinder, Mazur, possible ASP, etc) the year after. It doesn't mean not adding anybody this off-season. There are guys like Pesce and Stephenson who probably won't cost a lot given their stat lines, but would really help the team defensively and will still be helping 3-4 years from now.

Proposed "Fix"

DBC-Larkin-Raymond
Stephenson-JT-Berggren
Ras-Danielson-Fabbri/Perron
Copp-Kasper-Fischer
Veleno

Chiarot-Mo
Ed-Pesce
Walman/AlJo/Petry

X/Lyon

Gone: Kane, one of Perron/Fabbri, Sprong, Maatta, Ghost, Holl, Husso.
 
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