Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,146
No, not saying he is there yet, but there is no better place to discuss it than here since the main board is every extreme direction you can think of on this issue. Here it is more stable and we will be talking a lot of history on this thread. So I figure he never cracks into the Mount Rushmore of hockey, the "big 4" but can and just might be comfortably slotted in #5 when all is said and done.
Let's assume he has already equalled the Sakic/Yzerman/Trottier group. Maybe surpassed them. The Messier/Esposito/Mikita/Morenz/Lafleur/Jagr group is another story but they aren't top 5 quite. The top 5 candidates are Beliveau/Hull/Richard etc. How does he stack up against them. Keep in mind the comparison is their full careers vs. Crosby's first 12 so far. Here it is:
Cups:
Beliveau - 10
Richard - 8
Crosby - 3
Hull - 1
Keeping in mind the league sizes and such before and after expansion I think 3 (so far) in a 30 team league is pretty darn good.
Top 10 scoring finishes:
Beliveau - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6, 8, 8, 9
Richard - 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Crosby - 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 6
Hull - 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9
Again, he holds up rather well here. Certainly isn't out of place and that goes for two seasons where he was wiped out because of injury.
All-star selections:
Beliveau - 6 First team, 4 2nd team
Richard - 8 First team, 6 2nd team
Crosby - 4 First team, 3 2nd team (this is assuming he is a 2nd team all-star in 2017)
Hull - 10 First team, 2 2nd team
Pretty important to note that Crosby and Beliveau are both centers and that is the best guy to compare him with in this sort of thing, but again, even after 12 years he holds up well.
Hart finishes:
Beliveau - 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4
Richard - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 8
Crosby - 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 5, 6
Hull - 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 7
Still holds up here. Very impressive.
To look at their playoff resumes I'd rank them like this:
Beliveau/Richard
Crosby
Hull
He definitely isn't the worst, but there is still work to be done to surpass the other two I think.
Anyway, we can get into other things such as intangibles and style of play and dominance and such but I thought I would open it up and show everyone just how close he is to these guys.
Let's assume he has already equalled the Sakic/Yzerman/Trottier group. Maybe surpassed them. The Messier/Esposito/Mikita/Morenz/Lafleur/Jagr group is another story but they aren't top 5 quite. The top 5 candidates are Beliveau/Hull/Richard etc. How does he stack up against them. Keep in mind the comparison is their full careers vs. Crosby's first 12 so far. Here it is:
Cups:
Beliveau - 10
Richard - 8
Crosby - 3
Hull - 1
Keeping in mind the league sizes and such before and after expansion I think 3 (so far) in a 30 team league is pretty darn good.
Top 10 scoring finishes:
Beliveau - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6, 8, 8, 9
Richard - 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Crosby - 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 6
Hull - 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9
Again, he holds up rather well here. Certainly isn't out of place and that goes for two seasons where he was wiped out because of injury.
All-star selections:
Beliveau - 6 First team, 4 2nd team
Richard - 8 First team, 6 2nd team
Crosby - 4 First team, 3 2nd team (this is assuming he is a 2nd team all-star in 2017)
Hull - 10 First team, 2 2nd team
Pretty important to note that Crosby and Beliveau are both centers and that is the best guy to compare him with in this sort of thing, but again, even after 12 years he holds up well.
Hart finishes:
Beliveau - 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4
Richard - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 8
Crosby - 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 5, 6
Hull - 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 7
Still holds up here. Very impressive.
To look at their playoff resumes I'd rank them like this:
Beliveau/Richard
Crosby
Hull
He definitely isn't the worst, but there is still work to be done to surpass the other two I think.
Anyway, we can get into other things such as intangibles and style of play and dominance and such but I thought I would open it up and show everyone just how close he is to these guys.