Prospect Info: Holy Crap! Button has Andrew Copp as an A List Prospect !

[jetkarma*]

I'm thinking he might be excited about Copp because nobody else in the media knows who he is.
That said, I know less about him than a lot of guys around here but he seems like he could be a part of a bottom 6 on a good team.

Not sure how you can state that , or why.

I can 1000% tell you that not only do virtually ALL media know who Copp is , the ones that follow prospects for a living and are connected know a lot about him . As I have been saying , more and more are giving very positive views on him unsolicited.

It is one thing to know a prospect and have a contrarian opinion on their future or potential , but those that know little if anything stating things like this is just wrong.

Maybe some people actually know something before it happens.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

This may be semantics but imo you can be a third or fourth line stud . My view is you try to build your team where you are a plus at every position or at as many as you can be. IMO Andrew Copp will end up being a plus player for us wnerever he eventually slots in . Having better skilled , more elite players ahead of him ie Scheifele or Little , isn't a knock at all , not at all.

I'm thinking he might be excited about Copp because nobody else in the media knows who he is.
That said, I know less about him than a lot of guys around here but he seems like he could be a part of a bottom 6 on a good team.

Not sure how you can state that , or why.

I can 1000% tell you that not only do virtually ALL media know who Copp is , the ones that follow prospects for a living and are connected know a lot about him . As I have been saying , more and more are giving very positive views on him unsolicited.

It is one thing to know a prospect and have a contrarian opinion on their future or potential , but those that know little if anything stating things like this is just wrong.

Maybe some people actually know something before it happens.

I'm not sure if maybe you were just in a hurry and didn't read what I wrote clearly., or maybe you read something between the lines that isn't there, but your response is curious.

Comparing the first quote of yours with my own, we seem to have the exact same vision of this player's potential which is to say a high quality 3rd or 4th liner, which is a piece all winning teams have.
So when you say "it's one thing to know a prospect and have a contrarian opinion (I have the identical opinion, which is the opposite of contrary)..., but those that know little if anything stating things like this is just wrong," it makes it sound like you figure those of us without media passes aren't entitled to any opinion at all, even if it agrees 100% with your own.
Now, seeing as we understand each other better, (and even if we didn't) I think I made it pretty clear that I was sharing my under-qualified opinion. I basically apologized for my lack of knowledge before I stated anything on the subject. So for you to get all ranty and up in arms seems pretty rude.

As for what media do and don't know, maybe you'd know better, but I've never come across any non-Jets(or Wolverines) writer having anything at all to say about him. Maybe they all know who he is and what they think about him but Button beat them to the punch by making his bold statement first.

 

[jetkarma*]

I'm not sure if maybe you were just in a hurry and didn't read what I wrote clearly., or maybe you read something between the lines that isn't there, but your response is curious.

Comparing the first quote of yours with my own, we seem to have the exact same vision of this player's potential which is to say a high quality 3rd or 4th liner, which is a piece all winning teams have.
So when you say "it's one thing to know a prospect and have a contrarian opinion (I have the identical opinion, which is the opposite of contrary)..., but those that know little if anything stating things like this is just wrong," it makes it sound like you figure those of us without media passes aren't entitled to any opinion at all, even if it agrees 100% with your own.
Now, seeing as we understand each other better, (and even if we didn't) I think I made it pretty clear that I was sharing my under-qualified opinion. I basically apologized for my lack of knowledge before I stated anything on the subject. So for you to get all ranty and up in arms seems pretty rude.

As for what media do and don't know, maybe you'd know better, but I've never come across any non-Jets(or Wolverines) writer having anything at all to say about him. Maybe they all know who he is and what they think about him but Button beat them to the punch by making his bold statement first.

You dismiss Button as a D list hockey analyst, while you may not like him that of course is not accurate. He knows what he's doing , and knows prospects. Of course it is your prerogative to like him or not , but to say he is at a D list level is wrong.

You also said he might get excited because no one else knows who he is , of course that isn't why he is enthusiastic about his future. Prominent hockey observers and analysts have been quite positive on Copp for a long while now , and have mentioned it publicly . Pronman just recently also rated him very similarly to what Button has and did again . My point is if someone doesn't follow close enough to know these things why jump to wrong conclusions? He was a captain at the WJC , scored at a PPG , was named one the American's top three players and had hockey people like Ray Ferraro , Tony Granato and Shane Hnidy not be shy in talking about his game and that he "screamed future NHL'r ".

You said he could be part of a bottom 6 , that isn't the same as saying you feel he is an A list prospect or in the top 5 for a team or a high quality third liner , you didn't say that in the original post. We actually don't have the same exact same vision of the player which is totally fine of course , you initially made statements I don't agree with , which is also fine

 

[heilongjetsfan]

You dismiss Button as a D list hockey analyst, while you may not like him that of course is not accurate. He knows what he's doing , and knows prospects. Of course it is your prerogative to like him or not , but to say he is at a D list level is wrong.

You also said he might get excited because no one else knows who he is , of course that isn't why he is enthusiastic about his future. Prominent hockey observers and analysts have been quite positive on Copp for a long while now , and have mentioned it publicly . Pronman just recently also rated him very similarly to what Button has and did again . My point is if someone doesn't follow close enough to know these things why jump to wrong conclusions? He was a captain at the WJC , scored at a PPG , was named one the American's top three players and had hockey people like Ray Ferraro , Tony Granato and Shane Hnidy not be shy in talking about his game and that he "screamed future NHL'r ".

You said he could be part of a bottom 6 , that isn't the same as saying you feel he is an A list prospect or in the top 5 for a team or a high quality third liner , you didn't say that in the original post. We actually don't have the same exact same vision of the player which is totally fine of course , you initially made statements I don't agree with , which is also fine

Actually, I just agreed with a guy who called him d-list. I thought it was funny and not far from the truth.
I said part of a bottom six on a good team. That's usually going to be a pretty good player, as good teams have depth throughout the lineup, right? This would be another way of saying a high-quality third liner, which is what you called him. So yeah, we do agree. Wish I didn't have to point it out twice.

 

[jetkarma*]

Pronman has him as the Jets 4th rated prospect. Seems to be getting more and more consistent from hockey insiders . Mirroring some other's views Sees a possibility of him turning pro after this season .

Strong , well rounded prospect.

 

[Jetabre]

The thought of him and Lowry centring our bottom 6 for the next decade gets me excited.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Pronman has him as the Jets 4th rated prospect. Seems to be getting more and more consistent from hockey insiders . Mirroring some other's views Sees a possibility of him turning pro after this season .

Strong , well rounded prospect.

He could potentially burn a year off his ELC if he signs before the end of the year. May depend on how Michigan does in the big ten tourney or the regional. Time is tight if they make the frozen four.

 

[ps241]

I thought Copp was great at the WJC in 2013. At that time I thought he was as good if not better than Bo Horvat. Now he is one year older and that makes a difference in that tourney but he plays a similar style game which is why I used the comp.

Button has been high on Copp for a long time now.

 

[Hunter368]

Button has had a man crush on Copp for a long time. Not sure how many in the hockey world consider him a A list prospect.....other than Button.

 

[jetkarma*]

I thought Copp was great at the WJC in 2013. At that time I thought he was as good if not better than Bo Horvat. Now he is one year older and that makes a difference in that tourney but he plays a similar style game which is why I used the comp.

Button has been high on Copp for a long time now.

Much better skater but there are similarities.

 

[HannuJ]

The thought of him and Lowry centring our bottom 6 for the next decade gets me excited.

does that mean that we can finally lock up the Burmistrov thread??

 

[GJF]

does that mean that we can finally lock up the Burmistrov thread??

Why should we?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He could potentially burn a year off his ELC if he signs before the end of the year. May depend on how Michigan does in the big ten tourney or the regional. Time is tight if they make the frozen four.

If he signs before the end of this season (I think everything happens July 1?) but does not play NHL or AHL does it still burn a year?

I would want to get his signature on a contract just as soon as possible but would not want to burn a year for a few AHL games. I can't see playing him in the NHL play-offs right out of NCAA either.

 

[Aavco Cup]

If he signs before the end of this season (I think everything happens July 1?) but does not play NHL or AHL does it still burn a year?

I would want to get his signature on a contract just as soon as possible but would not want to burn a year for a few AHL games. I can't see playing him in the NHL play-offs right out of NCAA either.

Gaudreau played 1 NHL game last year and he went to the frozen four.. That's the incentive for those guys to leave school.

 

[Huffer]

If he signs before the end of this season (I think everything happens July 1?) but does not play NHL or AHL does it still burn a year?

I would want to get his signature on a contract just as soon as possible but would not want to burn a year for a few AHL games. I can't see playing him in the NHL play-offs right out of NCAA either.

Agreed, I don't think that TNSE would pull a guy out of juniors or the NCAA and plop them into the NHL playoffs either.

I don't think he burns any ELC time playing in the AHL though. I think you need to be playing in the NHL to burn ELC time.

Now his time to UFA status will be running from next year anyway as he will start the season at 21. So if he doesn't play 40 games (I think it is) in the NHL next season it won't be 7 years of service that takes him to UFA, it will be being 27 years old. Not saying this is even an issue, just throwing it out there as this is a discussion on Copp.

I hope he turns pro after his season and we get to see him somehow in the AHL (don't know if the NCAA and AHL seasons match up like that though). Baring that, I'll be looking forward to seeing him hopefully in the Young Guns tournament next year.

 

[Bob E]

With Lowry playing pretty well and Copp, Petan and potentially Burmi coming down the pipeline, can we finally move on from Jim Slater?

He's a great guy, and works hard, but I'd like to see him moved for a pick, at the deadline. If he's resigned to a 1 yr deal, fine, let's the youngsters play in the A for a year. But a 2 or 3 yr deal, Chevy really has to have his head examined.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Copp is not a teenager. His contract won't slide.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Agreed, I don't think that TNSE would pull a guy out of juniors or the NCAA and plop them into the NHL playoffs either.

I don't think he burns any ELC time playing in the AHL though. I think you need to be playing in the NHL to burn ELC time.

Now his time to UFA status will be running from next year anyway as he will start the season at 21. So if he doesn't play 40 games (I think it is) in the NHL next season it won't be 7 years of service that takes him to UFA, it will be being 27 years old. Not saying this is even an issue, just throwing it out there as this is a discussion on Copp.

I hope he turns pro after his season and we get to see him somehow in the AHL (don't know if the NCAA and AHL seasons match up like that though). Baring that, I'll be looking forward to seeing him hopefully in the Young Guns tournament next year.

His "years to UFA" have already started this season. The "seven" seasons are generally ages 20-26. This is Copp's 20 year old year. Remember as well he would need 60 games by end of 24 (ie 60 over the next 3 years) to avoid Group VI UFA.

As for the contract issue, it's entirely possible if he signs even without playing a game in either league it could burn a year. Or he could sign and play in AHL without it burning a year. It all depends on the contract.

You can sign players to contracts that don't start until the following season. So the Jets could sign Copp, but it's a contract that starts in 2015-16. They would then have to sign him to ATO or PTO with St. John's to play in AHL for the rest of the season.

If he signs a contract slated to start for the 2014-15 season, no matter where or amount of games played, it will burn a year. They could then send him to AHL or keep him in NHL. This in a sense is what happened to Trouba. They signed him for the 2012-13 season and it used up his one slide year (had they done it at the same time during the 13-14 season it would have burned a year of ELC). This despite him not playing games.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

His "years to UFA" have already started this season. The "seven" seasons are generally ages 20-26. This is Copp's 20 year old year. Remember as well he would need 60 games by end of 24 (ie 60 over the next 3 years) to avoid Group VI UFA.

As for the contract issue, it's entirely possible if he signs even without playing a game in either league it could burn a year. Or he could sign and play in AHL without it burning a year. It all depends on the contract.

You can sign players to contracts that don't start until the following season. So the Jets could sign Copp, but it's a contract that starts in 2015-16. They would then have to sign him to ATO or PTO with St. John's to play in AHL for the rest of the season.

If he signs a contract slated to start for the 2014-15 season, no matter where or amount of games played, it will burn a year. They could then send him to AHL or keep him in NHL. This in a sense is what happened to Trouba. They signed him for the 2012-13 season and it used up his one slide year (had they done it at the same time during the 13-14 season it would have burned a year of ELC). This despite him not playing games.

I believe the limit is 80 games played in at least 3 NHL seasons before the age of 25 for a player and 28 games for a goalie to become a group 6 UFA.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I believe the limit is 80 games played in at least 3 NHL seasons before the age of 25 for a player and 28 games for a goalie to become a group 6 UFA.

Number of NHL seasons doesn't matter. Must have played 3 years of pro hockey yes. It may be 80 games I never checked.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Number of NHL seasons doesn't matter. Must have played 3 years of pro hockey yes. It may be 80 games I never checked.

It is 80 games .... I checked after posting to confirm....

 

[Aavco Cup]

It is 80 games .... I checked after posting to confirm....

The player also has to be age 25 on the cutoff day (July 1) Copp's birthday July 8 works against him and means he can't be a group 6 UFA until after the 2019/20 season.

 

[Huffer]

His "years to UFA" have already started this season. The "seven" seasons are generally ages 20-26. This is Copp's 20 year old year. Remember as well he would need 60 games by end of 24 (ie 60 over the next 3 years) to avoid Group VI UFA.

As for the contract issue, it's entirely possible if he signs even without playing a game in either league it could burn a year. Or he could sign and play in AHL without it burning a year. It all depends on the contract.

You can sign players to contracts that don't start until the following season. So the Jets could sign Copp, but it's a contract that starts in 2015-16. They would then have to sign him to ATO or PTO with St. John's to play in AHL for the rest of the season.

If he signs a contract slated to start for the 2014-15 season, no matter where or amount of games played, it will burn a year. They could then send him to AHL or keep him in NHL. This in a sense is what happened to Trouba. They signed him for the 2012-13 season and it used up his one slide year (had they done it at the same time during the 13-14 season it would have burned a year of ELC). This despite him not playing games.

Thanks Holden. Question on the 27 year old thing. To start the clock using the 7 years of service angle you need to be playing in the NHL correct? (Not counting the question below) so Copp can't start that clock until next year at the earliest right? So at the earliest using that angle (assuming he plays next year), he's eligible to be a UFA after 7 seasons which would be after the 21-22 season.

To become a UFA using the other criteria, at 27, is the rule that the player has to be 27 entering the season? With a July birthday, that would be the entering the 21-22 season.

So would he be a UFA "entering" that 21-22 season, or a UFA after that season is over?

Correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like he's a UFA entering the 20-21 season (6 seasons from now), if you only need to be 27 before the start of the season, or after the 21-22 season if you need to play that 27 year old season (7 seasons from now).

Either way, it's not going to be the 7 seasons part (alone) that will determine his UFA status. I was never really looking at that angle because I figure it will be the 27 years old that will determine the date.




As for the ability to sign a contract and burn a year this year, I seem to remember something similar, maybe with Andy Miele? How do you structure it to burn a ELC/UFA (?) year if the player doesn't play 10 games. I'm just curious on that one.

 

[Aavco Cup]

10 games doesn't apply to players age 20 and up. A player that old is not eligible to have his contract slide. I believe Copp could sign, dress for 1 game and burn his ELC yr1.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

10 games doesn't apply to players age 20 and up. A player that old is not eligible to have his contract slide. I believe Copp could sign, dress for 1 game and burn his ELC yr1.

Doesn't have to play or dress for a game even. As long as the contract is signed to start that year.

Thanks Holden. Question on the 27 year old thing. To start the clock using the 7 years of service angle you need to be playing in the NHL correct? (Not counting the question below) so Copp can't start that clock until next year at the earliest right?

So at the earliest using that angle (assuming he plays next year), he's eligible to be a UFA after 7 seasons which would be after the 21-22 season.

For the 7 years thing yes it can't start until next year. You need 40 NHL games in a season to start that.

To become a UFA using the other criteria, at 27, is the rule that the player has to be 27 entering the season? With a July birthday, that would be the entering the 21-22 season.

So would he be a UFA "entering" that 21-22 season, or a UFA after that season is over?

Correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like he's a UFA entering the 20-21 season (6 seasons from now), if you only need to be 27 before the start of the season, or after the 21-22 season if you need to play that 27 year old season (7 seasons from now).

Either way, it's not going to be the 7 seasons part (alone) that will determine his UFA status. I was never really looking at that angle because I figure it will be the 27 years old that will determine the date.

I'd have to check the CBA again. The one thing I constantly mess up on is the age things. Different rules have different dates for what is considered what age and blah blah blah. Player must be 27 at the time of cutoff. Based on the similiar situations (Group VI UFA) my guess is that the player must be 27 years old before July 1st for regular UFA. If this is the date, Copp would be UFA after 21-22. However if he was born on June 29 same year he would be UFA after 20-21 as he would turn 27 before July 1.

As for the ability to sign a contract and burn a year this year, I seem to remember something similar, maybe with Andy Miele? How do you structure it to burn a ELC/UFA (?) year if the player doesn't play 10 games. I'm just curious on that one.

Only thing you need to do is to say it starts that season. For players (at signing date) 20 years or older the 10 games thing does not exist in any way shape or form. That would instantly burn a year of ELC, even if the player never dresses for a game.

Contracts can be signed for next season. So if in April Copp decides to leave Jets can sign him in April to a contract starting on July 1st, 2015. That would avoid the year being burnt off ELC. Of course that doesn't happen all that often as that's one of the demands players make to leave school early. It's usually just lower end seniors that sign contracts like that.

The player also has to be age 25 on the cutoff day (July 1) Copp's birthday July 8 works against him and means he can't be a group 6 UFA until after the 2019/20 season.

Yeah correct, I didn't check on Copp's birthday.

This is so out of place in a Copp thread though haha. He is not even an NHL player