Bjorn Le
Hobocop
It's comment like those that killed the Jian Ghomeshi allegations. They're also what makes it so hard to prosecute actual sexual harassment/assault.
Movies: Hollywood sexual harassment ( Russell Brand facing multiple allegations)
- Thread starter Jumptheshark
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It's comment like those that killed the Jian Ghomeshi allegations. They're also what makes it so hard to prosecute actual sexual harassment/assault.
Huggy43
Registered User
Exactly. People like this make it harder for people who have actually been hurt to come forward & not have to worry about the World calling you out.
I've really started to resent social media as it's made everyone revert back to their tribalistic ways. Literally everything is turned into a "me vs you" mind set & guilty until proven innocent.
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
I firmly believe that social media does as much harm as it does good. When people used to hind behind their screens, it was on niche internet forums. Social media is our public lives. It's an excellent tool for business, but as a communication platform it is inherently destructive.
Deficient Mode
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People never stopped being tribalistic.
It does give you the illusion of having power though.
I've seen a pretty simple video that breaks down the problem with interaction on social media but can't think of the link for it.
It's something along the lines of social media elevating the worst voices in any argument which just lead to an endless cycle of confirmation bias.
It's something along the lines of social media elevating the worst voices in any argument which just lead to an endless cycle of confirmation bias.
izzy
go
well this is the weakest group of accusations yet
i cant see them getting work anywhere after this,
i cant see them getting work anywhere after this,
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
franco has a bad rep in some circle
Sounds like someone at CBS might be in trouble now
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
Not really for being a creep/harraser. He has a bad rap for acting like an arthouse douchebag whose shit doesn't stink.
izzy
go
its definitely at the point where guys being assholes is being grouped into sexual harrasment
the aziz thing is basically him being bad at reading body language and being a jerk. but when she said no, it was over and he offered to call her a car. its getting ridiculous
the aziz thing is basically him being bad at reading body language and being a jerk. but when she said no, it was over and he offered to call her a car. its getting ridiculous
I would say trying to have sex with a 17 year old is creepy. He seems to get a free pass from the press saw more articles trying to cover for him than against him.
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
I don't think what he did was sexual assault and he's certainly not a rapist on the Weinstein level. But he's absolutely scummy for how he acted. I mean, I could buy the being bad at reading body language if it was once or twice. But this was many times over an evening. And she even eventually said no verbally, that she wasn't having sex with him, and he still tried to get her to suck his dick after that. Also, when a girl says she doesn't want to sleep with you, that doesn't mean get her more drunk so that it counts as a second date so you can then sleep with her. Aziz wrote a well-researched, fairly eloquent book on modern romance and dating; he's not as oblivious as we'd have to believe for him to completely miss all of this for the entire evening.
That said, is this enough to lump him in with all the other scumbags who are in the news and wreck his career? Perhaps this one should have been worked out privately, I don't know, I'd have to think on it a little more. It's a slippery slope and (this is a separate thought now from what Aziz did), making a move romantically is inherently non-consensual, so unless we're going to move toward a society where explicit verbal consent for every action, in a legalistic fashion and recorded (which is just clunky and unnatural), is required, then there has to be a line drawn. That said, some men do have to realize that consent is much more than just the absence of a strong, verbalized no. Taking advantage of shy women, like it seems like Aziz did, is not ok either.
I really don't know where this movement is going to go. Is it going to descend into McCarthyism (it has in some quarters, like that "secret: and anonymous "bad men of journalism" list), or will it be an empowering and long-needed sea change?
Ensane
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This one is particularly troublesome. Maybe I'm off base here, but It's hard not to read into this girl wanting a payoff.
First, she clearly can't play the "I had no idea"/too-naive card here, since she said "you guys are all the same" implying she knew what to expect agreeing to go upstairs (also, let's be clear, sex on the first date is a sexual norm perpetuated by BOTH genders, and not just males). Second, if she was so uncomfortable so early on into the episode, isn't the knee jerk reaction to GTFO? It strikes me odd that she continued to stick around. I get that there is a certain degree of shock involved, but it doesn't appear that there was any threatening behavior at any point that would have made her feel like she couldn't have left at any time. Lastly, this happened, what, 4 months or so ago, and she's just now coming public after there was back and forth about potentially resolving the situation? Wonder why that is? Could it be that he refused to pay her off privately, and this was the backup plan to force his hand?
Also, it is a bit curious that she published her account on some no-name website. Does it indicate that the credible media outlets refused to publish? I'm not sure.
Just a lot of red-flags on this one...
The 17 year old was from years ago and he admitted to it. Now it sounds like he tried one more 17 year old since then.
BonMorrison
Registered User
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
Whose saying that? Most recent accusation from a mainstream news site is 4-5 days ago. The most recent news is Ashley Judd (whose been at the forefront of the Weinstein allegations) defending and praising Franco.
Agreed. A lot of men still seem resistant to accepting the fact that other men get violent and aggressive when dates don't go the way they would like.
All that being said, Aziz is a bitch who uses SJW'ing to try and get laid; a not uncommon tactic these days.
I am inherently suspicious of any guys who make such an effort to present themselves as feminists. I don't trust a man who wears a 'Times Up' pin. Don't make fashion statements; just be a good person. It takes a hell of a lot more courage to say what Liam Neeson said the other night about the MeToo movement than it does to wear a lapel pin to an awards show.
Aziz strikes me as the prototypical "Nice Guy". He isn't honest about his desires, he thinks they're "toxic masculinity", so he plays up the harmless, innocent, "woke" ally shtick despite the reality that he is still just a heterosexual man who really wants sex most of the time. People like this use performance feminism in an effort to get laid and it's no different (actually it is worse because of how duplicitous it is) than any other tactic men have used throughout history.
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Ensane
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These two counter-arguments are ones that I'm on-board with, as general notions, but the problem is, we have specific facts about the encounter that seem to negate the usefulness of these points.
As for the first one, I guess I'm just a little baffled that this woman who was bold enough to approach Ansari first (and hand out her phone number at a party when she was there with a date, to boot)* suddenly became so petrified that she couldn't leave after the first fratty advance. Perhaps the more pertinent question is: "why did she go up there in the first place?" Whatever the response is, it better not be that she was "being polite" and "prioritizing his feelings."
The second one is a bit ridiculous in this context in that it's taking 3 unrelated and random acts of murder (one of which involved a married couple, further limiting its application here), the circumstances about which we have very little insight, and extrapolating it across all situations where a woman is alone with a man for the first time. Again, nothing in "Grace's" very detailed statement suggested she at any point felt like she was in imminent danger (note, the words "fear", "scared", or "afraid" aren't used at all, or even alluded to). I think more importantly here, she didn't simply rely on nonverbal cues, but seems to have been quite verbal the entire time. According to her account, she doesn't actually fully reject him until the very end. I'm not saying it was reasonable for him to have not read a rejection into the previous encounters, but, I find it hard to believe that she was worried about being murdered, and that's the reason she didn't give a firm rejection until after he made multiple varied advances.
* I realize I'm making an assumption that's colored by stereotypes, but it's important that the subtext from this entire episode it incorporated into understanding what took place. The incident in the apartment did not happen in a vacuum.
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
This is mind-blowingly stupid and I say this as someone who's progressive. That Aziz story is a farce and does a disservice to the movement. I'm not surprised it got released on an obscure publication. He acted like a jerk-off. That's not a story or abuse.
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izzy
go
dang im on mobile so linking is annoying but go watch ashleigh banfield put aziz’s accuser on blast if you havent already
sucks that some ppl gotta take away from something actually important for their own agenda
sucks that some ppl gotta take away from something actually important for their own agenda
The Aziz accuser is a f***ing disgrace. She's doing WAY more harm than good and is taking away so much from this serious matter. What happened to her was in no way shape or form sexual abuse or whatever the hell she's claiming it to be. It's infuriating to see that there's actually people out there defending her.
Ensane
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