TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
I'm fine with allowing ties in the extremely rare instances that the votes work out that way. That's how the original (2008) version of the Top 100 list was compiled. Thoughts?
I'm fine with allowing ties in the extremely rare instances that the votes work out that way. That's how the original (2008) version of the Top 100 list was compiled. Thoughts?
A personal note as I've started thinking about how I would make an initial list. It is VERY difficult to rank the top 80 defensemen ever. Once I got past 30 it really starts being troublesome, I can't imagine trying to separate say, #75 from #74. Does anyone have any tips? Do you guys divide your lists into blocks and then rank players individually whitin blocks? I'm finding this way too complex.
A list of scoring finishes compared to other defencemen, i.e. how many times was each defenceman the leading defenceman scorer, how many times in the top 2, in the top 3, top 5 and top 10.
If we decide we want to break ties, what about going back to the ballots, looking only at the two players in question, and breaking the tie in favour of the player who ranks higher on more ballots?
Rarely in hockey history has a defenseman exhibited as high a level of play and gentlemanly conduct as Eddie Gerard. While playing a position that constantly required physical confrontation, he performed with superior efficiency but in sportsmanlike fashion. Gerard was a fine skater with superior puckhandling capabilities who was a fair match for any adversary at either end of the ice, while his leadership skills made him the ideal captain for the Stanley Cup-winning Ottawa Senators and a fine coach with the Cup champion Montreal Maroons in 1926.
Gerard first signed with hockey's Ottawa Senators in 1913-14, a transaction that reaped many benefits for the club. He began as a forward, playing on a line with Jack Darragh and Skene Ronan, and didn't switch to defense for another three years. Following this positional shift, Gerard established himself as a tower of strength on his squad's defense while serving as the team's inspirational heart. He formed an outstanding defensive partnership with George Boucher and was the natural choice for team captain.
Gerard captained the version of the Senators that was dubbed the "Super Six" as a tribute to their winning three Stanley Cups in four years between 1920 and 1923. During the 1920 Stanley Cup series against the Seattle Metropolitans, Gerard formed an impenetrable defensive wall with Sprague Cleghorn in his own zone and scored on a dramatic end-to-end rush in the deciding game. The Senators retained the Cup the following year in an emotionally charged series versus the PCHA champion Vancouver Millionaires. In one of the most keenly watched Stanley Cup encounters of the 1920s, Ottawa triumphed in the fifth and deciding game with a 2-1 score.
Before I'm finished with this narrative, maybe you'll be thinking that far too often I say this player was great and that player was great; that I build too many pedestals for these stars of the past to stand on. But there's no question about Gerard being a fabulous hockey player. They talk about Doug Harvey and Eddie Shore and one or two other legendary defencemen. Gerard was in that class--a brilliant skater and a fine team man.
The second "dream team" dates from the start of the modern era to 1944. Tiny Thompson, goal. Eddie Shore and Eddie Gerard, defense. Howie Morenz, Syl Apps and Bill Cook, his forward line.
Cyclone picked two centers in Morenz and Apps but explained that by commenting "They would have been just as great playing wing as they were at center."
Red Dutton...selects an all-star, all-time team, all-time only in the respect that he deals with players who have come and gone under the big toll of the NHL since he began to play. Dutton's team: Sprague Cleghorn, right defense; Eddie Gerard, left defense; Eddie Shore, No 2 right defense; Herb Gardiner, No 2 left defense...
Goal: Georges Vezina
Defence: Sprague Cleghorn
Defence: Eddie Gerard
Centre: Frank Nighbor
Right wing: Bill Cook
Left wing: Aurel Joliat
Gerard and Cleghorn he regards as top defenceman for their ice generalship and thumping rearguard play.
Goal: Charlie Gardiner, Chicago Black Hawks in the early thirties. "A colorful holler guy. If somebody threw a hat on the ice, Gardiner'd wear it the whole game."
Defence: Eddie Shore, Boston Bruins 25 years ago. "Colorful, high-handed and hotheaded. A bull moose when you got his goat."
Defence: Eddie Gerard: "Great ice-leader and traffic director."
Centre: Howie Morenz, Montreal Canadians circa 1930. "Reeked with color. He'd electrify a crowd the minute he got the puck. A regular sputnik on skates."
Left Wing: Ted Lindsay, lately of Chicago and Detroit. "He scored, checked, and needled. Play with him and you play with dynamite."
Right Wing: Rocket Richard, Montreal immortal. "Put people in the rink and pucks in the net. He was the Babe Ruth, the home-run hitter of hockey."
Howie Morenz
Eddie Shore
Gordon Howe
Maurice Richard
Bobby Orr
Bobby Hull
Jean Beliveau
Milt Schmidt
Dit Clapper
Eddie Gerard - One must defer to the opinion of King Clancy and hockey historian Charles L. Coleman who insist that Gerard was the best. On Wednesday of this week, Clancy said "You can put Gerard's name at the very top of your list."
I admired Eddie Gerard more than any athlete I ever handled. He always gave all he had, was a great organizer, an exceptional team captain, and a fine sport. He was courageous and possessed a fighting-spirit that was hard to beat. He was the spark-plug of the famous Super-Six, which I consider the greatest team of all time. Eddie Gerard and Sprague Cleghorn, were in my opinion, the greatest defence in hockey.
In my estimation, there was none better. You can have all your Shores and Conachers, and the others, but Eddie Gerard was in a class by himself. He knew just what to do and no one ever needed to coach him.
I'm always surprised when Gerard isn't generally recognized as the great player he was.Here's something on Eddie Gerard. I had him on my team in the last ATD, so I've researched him and am familiar with his career.
In the past I've placed players in blocks and ranked within that.
Once I had a rough list, I kept coming back to it to make a few 1 on 1 comparisons and try to get individual players right.
It's definitely wasn't easy when I did lists in the past, and this one will be even more difficult. Keep in mind that Round 1 lists don't have to be perfect, as we have Round 2 for that. The important thing is that the starting lists are unbiased, especially for players who are harder to rank.
Flash Hollet held the goal record for defensemen for almost 30 years until none other than Orr finally broke it - in more games played, I believe.
Just someone who warrants more consideration than he usually gets.
Good utility men are worth their weight in gold to a National Hockey League club, and Bill (Flash) Hollett of Boston Bruins is just about the best.
Hollett hasn't played the nets during the NHL season but he has played in every other position.
Manager Art Ross said he would play Frank Brimsek in goal, Dit Clapper, Jack Shewchuk, Desse Smith and Jack Crawford on defence, and use his three regular forward lines with Flash Hollet as utility player
There is an assumption that there are more good players as the overall pool gets bigger but certain time periods will have ebbs and flows in the end as well.
I'm fine with allowing ties in the extremely rare instances that the votes work out that way. That's how the original (2008) version of the Top 100 list was compiled. Thoughts?
How do we know how's going to participate? Is it open to everybody?
Shouldn't we disqualify rovers when it's impossible to know the % of their stats coming at defense?
Rover really wasn't that similar to the position of modern defensemen. Guys who spent a significant portion of their careers as a defenseman (or the earlier positions of Point of Cover Point) are eligible. So if the rover spent significant time at point or cover point, he would be eligible.
Newsy Lalonde said:The rover was the seventh mn in the old type of hokey. He was behind the center man and he just stood there; he wasn't a scorer or defenseman. I never felt there was much difference betwee being a center and a rover.
Unfortunately, a pure rover like Cyclone Taylor is not going to be represented on these "by position" lists.
Lester Patrick said:He began as a defenseman in the East and when he came West my brother, Frank, said to him, "I'm going to make you the greatest center-ice man in history." The Cyclone laughed nad thought he was crazy, but Frank was right!
Flash Hollet held the goal record for defensemen for almost 30 years until none other than Orr finally broke it - in more games played, I believe.
Just someone who warrants more consideration than he usually gets.
Finally, it's also worth emphasizing Gerard's experience in the 1922 Stanley Cup Final, when Toronto was given the choice of any defenseman in hockey to replace the injured Harry Cameron in Game 4, and chose Gerard. Gerard played so well that Vancouver refused to allow him to play in Game 5.