HOH Top 60 Defensemen List & Voting Record - Dennis Bonvie

overpass · Feb 28, 2012

Dennis Bonvie

Players from the Top 60 not to appear on this list
Moose Johnson
Tom Johnson
Harry Cameron

Players ranked highest overall on this list
Earl Seibert (12)
Rod Langway (20)
Jacques Laperriere (22)
Marcel Pronovost (28)
Allan Stanley (32)
Carl Brewer (36)
Vladimir Lutchenko (39)
Doug Wilson (41)
Pat Stapleton (50)
Sergei Gonchar (52)

Players ranked lowest overall on this list
None

Players unique to this list
Jim Schoenfeld (70)

TheDevilMadeMe · Feb 28, 2012

Dennis was a big advocate for Langway, Laperriere, Stanley, Brewer, and Wilson, so no surprise to see them all highly ranked. Even if I don't agree with all the rankings, I like that - he ranked them highly, but then backed it up with arguments during Round 2.

I find it very interesting that you ranked Stanley over Brewer, considering that seems to go against consensus.

Dennis Bonvie · Feb 28, 2012

TheDevilMadeMe said:
Dennis was a big advocate for Langway, Laperriere, Stanley, Brewer, and Wilson, so no surprise to see them all highly ranked. Even if I don't agree with all the rankings, I like that - he ranked them highly, but then backed it up with arguments during Round 2.

I find it very interesting that you ranked Stanley over Brewer, considering that seems to go against consensus.

I think they were fairly comparable players, but I gave the edge to Stanley because his NHL career was so much longer.

I looked at Horton, Stanley and Brewer as an earlier era Robinson, Savard and Lapointe. Stanley would be their Savard, but the biggest difference would be in the physical play of Brewer & Horton, rather than the offensive difference. Stanley actaully was more productive than Brewer and on a par with Horton.

John Flyers Fan · Feb 28, 2012

This list is probably he one Ive seen that would most match my own, save for the position of Langway.

No way would I have Langway above Stevens, Pronger and Howe.

Also, while I'm a big McCrimmon fan, (see profile pic) I wouldn't have him above Desjardins.

Dennis Bonvie · Feb 28, 2012

John Flyers Fan said:
This list is probably he one Ive seen that would most match my own, save for the position of Langway.

No way would I have Langway above Stevens, Pronger and Howe.

Also, while I'm a big McCrimmon fan, (see profile pic) I wouldn't have him above Desjardins.

I can understand that.

I consider both McCrimmon and Langway guys that seemed to bring more to the table (and their teams) than just their play. They seemed to almost will defensive responsibilty to the rest of their teammates that were on the ice with them.

John Flyers Fan · Feb 28, 2012

Dennis Bonvie said:
I can understand that.

I consider both McCrimmon and Langway guys that seemed to bring more to the table (and their teams) than just their play. They seemed to almost will defensive responsibilty to the rest of their teammates that were on the ice with them.

Biggest reason I can't have McCrimmon over Desjardins is the roles they played on their teams.

McCrimmon never had to be "the guy" he always was able to slot into a 2/3 role with Bourque, Howe, MacInnis, etc. playing the lead role.

Desjardins wad the #1 guy for the Flyers for a decade, often carrying defenses that lacked a legit #2 and.sometimes even a #3 defenseman.

Carrying a team, being the #1 power play and penalty kill defenseman, shutdown defenseman and leading point producer, while paired with Chris Therein is far more taxing than playing next to Mark Howe, Lidstrom, etc.

As for Langway vs. Stevens, Pronger and Howe, I won't go too in depth, because most know my feelings, but quickly:

Pronger and Stevens both have massive playoff advantages over Langway, not to mention their offense.

As far as Howe and Langway, there was a much larger gap offensively than there was defensively.

TheDevilMadeMe · Feb 28, 2012

John Flyers Fan said:
Biggest reason I can't have McCrimmon over Desjardins is the roles they played on their teams.

McCrimmon never had to be "the guy" he always was able to slot into a 2/3 role with Bourque, Howe, MacInnis, etc. playing the lead role.

Desjardins wad the #1 guy for the Flyers for a decade, often carrying defenses that lacked a legit #2 and.sometimes even a #3 defenseman.

Carrying a team, being the #1 power play and penalty kill defenseman, shutdown defenseman and leading point producer, while paired with Chris Therein is far more taxing than playing next to Mark Howe, Lidstrom, etc.

I ranked Desjardins pretty highly myself - your description of him is dead on - he was far better than the rest of the Flyers defense. When he was off the ice, the team was much easier to play against.

I was a little disappointed Desjardins' name didn't come up for a vote. I doubt he's top 60, but I would have liked to have discussed him. Better player in my opinion than either Zubov or Housley, both of whom did come up for vote.

Dennis Bonvie · Feb 28, 2012

John Flyers Fan said:
Biggest reason I can't have McCrimmon over Desjardins is the roles they played on their teams.

McCrimmon never had to be "the guy" he always was able to slot into a 2/3 role with Bourque, Howe, MacInnis, etc. playing the lead role.

Desjardins wad the #1 guy for the Flyers for a decade, often carrying defenses that lacked a legit #2 and.sometimes even a #3 defenseman.

Carrying a team, being the #1 power play and penalty kill defenseman, shutdown defenseman and leading point producer, while paired with Chris Therein is far more taxing than playing next to Mark Howe, Lidstrom, etc.
As for Langway vs. Stevens, Pronger and Howe, I won't go too in depth, because most know my feelings, but quickly:

Pronger and Stevens both have massive playoff advantages over Langway, not to mention their offense.

As far as Howe and Langway, there was a much larger gap offensively than there was defensively.

Yep, point well taken.

If either did come up in round 2, looks like I could have been easily swayed to switch them up.

Epsilon · Feb 28, 2012

Desjardins is a guy who I'm starting to think has been underrated across the board (by fans, media, historians, etc.) and might be worth taking a closer look at. He wasn't in my top 80 but he absolutely wouldn't have been out of place there at all.

Besides playing a big role on a Stanley Cup champion (that was by no means an overwhelmingly strong team either), as mentioned he was a #1 guy on a team that was routinely week defensively (and in goal, it should be said).

He'd be a great player to spend some time on when this project gets re-visited in the future.

Hardyvan123 · Feb 28, 2012

Epsilon said:
Desjardins is a guy who I'm starting to think has been underrated across the board (by fans, media, historians, etc.) and might be worth taking a closer look at. He wasn't in my top 80 but he absolutely wouldn't have been out of place there at all.

Besides playing a big role on a Stanley Cup champion (that was by no means an overwhelmingly strong team either), as mentioned he was a #1 guy on a team that was routinely week defensively (and in goal, it should be said).

He'd be a great player to spend some time on when this project gets re-visited in the future.

Desjardins suffers a bit from the Larry Murphy syndrome, as a pretty good player but lacked the WOW factor.

I had him 59th but can see why he might have dropped.

Also Roy was far and away the biggest factor in that Habs Cup win in 93.

The defensive Corps of that Cup winner might possibly be one of the worst of all time IMO.

Epsilon · Feb 28, 2012

Hardyvan123 said:
Desjardins suffers a bit from the Larry Murphy syndrome, as a pretty good player but lacked the WOW factor.

I had him 59th but can see why he might have dropped.

Also Roy was far and away the biggest factor in that Habs Cup win in 93.

The defensive Corps of that Cup winner might possibly be one of the worst of all time IMO.

Oh believe me, I wasn't trying to give Desjardins a huge amount of credit for that Cup win, only pointing out it's not like he won a Cup on the 3rd pairing of the 2002 Detroit Red Wings or something.

Rob Scuderi · Feb 28, 2012

By no means am I trying to grill you on #80, but I'm wondering if this list is the only one that features Gus Mortson and not Jimmy Thomson, his defensive partner who seems more highly regarded.

Was this more an issue of rounding out the list than anything else, or did you feel there something in Mortson to supplant Thomson? I'll be honest the fact that I picked Mortson in the ATD is what has keyed me on this so I'm just genuinely curious.

Dennis Bonvie · Feb 29, 2012

Bring Back Scuderi said:
By no means am I trying to grill you on #80, but I'm wondering if this list is the only one that features Gus Mortson and not Jimmy Thomson, his defensive partner who seems more highly regarded.

Was this more an issue of rounding out the list than anything else, or did you feel there something in Mortson to supplant Thomson? I'll be honest the fact that I picked Mortson in the ATD is what has keyed me on this so I'm just genuinely curious.

Probably the fact that he was a first team all-star in the same season that Red Kelly was a second team all-star.

Also, I liked the idea that he was apparently a real tough guy (in the era of Howe, Lindsay, Richard, etc.) playing on a top pairing for a championship team.

Rob Scuderi · Feb 29, 2012

Dennis Bonvie said:
Probably the fact that he was a first team all-star in the same season that Red Kelly was a second team all-star.

Also, I liked the idea that he was apparently a real tough guy (in the era of Howe, Lindsay, Richard, etc.) playing on a top pairing for a championship team.

Gotcha, appreciate the response. You're definitely spot on though with his toughness. He and Howe got into it so badly during an all-star game that after their fight they sat the rest of the games on their respective benches under police supervision. His battles with Lindsay were also pretty interesting to read, they were also best friends off the ice, but it didn't stop them from going at it.

If you're interested here's the compilation of the info I found on him. About halfway down is where I listed the stuff about his battles with the stars of his era.

Dennis Bonvie · Mar 1, 2012

Bring Back Scuderi said:
Gotcha, appreciate the response. You're definitely spot on though with his toughness. He and Howe got into it so badly during an all-star game that after their fight they sat the rest of the games on their respective benches under police supervision. His battles with Lindsay were also pretty interesting to read, they were also best friends off the ice, but it didn't stop them from going at it.

If you're interested here's the compilation of the info I found on him. About halfway down is where I listed the stuff about his battles with the stars of his era.

Cool stuff!

Thanks.

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HOH Top 60 Defensemen List & Voting Record - Dennis Bonvie

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