Theokritos
Global Moderator
- Apr 6, 2010
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Back to the deadline question: Are there any people out there who have not yet submitted anything but who are still working on a top 70 list?
Theo told me we have 14 lists submitted. 1-2 more and we can move forward.
Edit: and to be totally honest, I'm kind of waiting to find out whether this project is going to move forward to another deadline, or if it's going to be scrapped.
As far as I'm concerned it's not a question of whether we carry on at this point but only a question of when.
Very little to my knowledge have been published on the early years of Russian/Soviet, bandy/hockey.
What I find fascinating is that St.Petersburg Eislaufverein had yearbooks going back to 1899 with "season-in-review" summaries of their bandy activities.
British entrepeneurs brought bandy to Moscow and St.Petersburg in the 1850s.
The first Russian public skating rink was opened in 1865 (in St.Petersburg), and it is a well-known fact that the Russian Czar loved to play the game and it was frequently played by the Royalties at the Winter Palace Grounds in the 1860s.
The earliest photo that I have of the Royal family with skates and hockey/bandy sticks dates back to 1884.
In 1880 there were nine ice skating rinks operating in St.Petersburg and in 1888 they wrote the first rules in Russian.
Many games were played before the turn of the century, but I believe it wasn't until 1905/06 that the first league season was played.
St.Petersburg had great bandy teams before WW I, unfortunately many of the players were killed in the Russian revolution, putting an end to a great era of Russian bandy. Now that would be an interesting book. (I apologize for being a bit off-topic)
Sorry to continue this bit offtopic, but where are those yearbooks available? Those "Jussupoffska" teams had pretty interesting lineups when they played against team from Vyborg. In one old Finnish newspaper in the turn of the century the players were listed as Lauman jr. , Gertner, Ross, Ross, Panschin, Jacobin, Nikolajeff, Birken, Krewing, Lauman and Lebach.
I guess that there were Alexander Panschin, Adolf Laumann and his brother (Vladimir?), A.G. Rosz, I.A. Kreving and Richard Lebach. To others I won´t even make guesses. Mainly I´m interest of the players and where were they originally from.
the new deadline I propose (and it should be the final one) is October 21.
We got 15 ballots now. If no-one else lets me know he's working on a list and hasn't submitted yet we will close the voting very soon so that we can finally move on.
During the positional projects, we made sure that the # of names in Round 2, Vote 1 was determined by a big natural break, and accepted lists up through the end of Round 2, Vote 1.
I will look into the preliminary aggregate list to see whether this is an option.
I am not sure if you have full data for scoring in CS league. In case you depend on Czech wikipedia, there are many seasons wrong. The most reliable source about czechoslovak statistics is http://avlh.sweb.cz/ . I also counted average amount of goals scored per game in a season which better illustrates how good season one player had since scoring environment has been constantly changing. Hence I´ll post it here.
The yearbooks, but only up from 70s IIRC. And I still found only one.Unless you know of a place where full league stat panels can be found. Perhaps this site of yours is sourcing it from somewhere else?
I'm working my way through it, and it appears that they only have the top-10 for each season. Being that I'm looking for complete league stat panels, it appears I'm stuck with SIHR, meaning I'll need to take out the playoffs wherever they are rolled into the season... what a pain!
This was awesome, by the way, because I was able to use it to figure out some inconsistencies in SIHR's stats. For the most part they appear correct - some things are off by 1-2 here and there. But what is incorrect is that in some seasons, playoff stats are separated, and in others they are rolled in along with the regular season stats, and in at least one they are rolled in for some players and not for others (which, as you can imagine, causes quite different leaderboards!)
There's a project I am working on where I use domestic CSSR league stats and translate to would-be NHL totals. But before I do that I need to make sure I'm using the correct stats for every season. I'm sold on this site and I trust it. I really would like to use it, but I can't navigate the site as I don't know the language. Can you offer any help?
Ultimately what I want to end up with is a sheet of all Czechoslovak seasons in one, with year-player-team-gp-g-a-pts-pim.
edit: actually, I'm working my way through it, and it appears that they only have the top-10 for each season. Being that I'm looking for complete league stat panels, it appears I'm stuck with SIHR, meaning I'll need to take out the playoffs wherever they are rolled into the season... what a pain!
Unless you know of a place where full league stat panels can be found. Perhaps this site of yours is sourcing it from somewhere else?
Yeah they have only top 10 for each season. Complete stat panels are not to be found on internet, I believe. The guy who runs this site appears to use official game records (for these czechoslovak league seasons) which are probably lying in some Czech hockey association´s archive. I guess he took just top 10 scorers from each season as it would be too much time consuming to take whole stat panels.
And there are at least two seasons (1970-71, 1972-73) where he writes that Association don´t have recorded points for that season´s playoffs (only for reg. season which are written on the right column). So the stats that are written there comes from different source - Gól magazine - weekly magazine specializing on soccer and hockey (and has been publishing to this day btw.). And again Gól´s archive is not digitalized so for that statistics, the guy who runs it, had to find some way to the old editions.
The website seems trustworthy because of the extent of what´s available - full statistics not just about domestic 1st league seasons but also about lower-tier domestic leagues, KHL, NHL or international hockey (including junior´s and women´s championships). Also because of constant updating - as you can see, he has all 2014-15 extraleague, NHL, KHL seasons filled + WC 2015.
The screening process is in the last stage and we should be ready to move on before this week is over. Stay tuned. Participants will receive a PM from me as soon as we're good to go.
Let's talk about the way we are going to proceed in round 2. Based on the foreseeable point gaps on the aggregate list, it would be convenient to start with nine players (#1-9 on the aggregate list) being eligible for vote 1. The top 4 vote getters from vote 1 will be added to the final list. We can also add the top 5 instead of top 4 in some rounds if the voting result calls for it (when the point gap between #4 and #5 is small compared to the point gap between #5 and #6). Given that there is less consensus on many of the players covered in this project than there was consensus or near-consensus in the earlier HOH projects, it makes sense to me to increase the number of eligible players from nine (vote 1) rather sooner than later during the process. We should discuss & rank up to 13-14 players at once by vote 3 or 4 in my opinion. Not more than 14 though, otherwise there are too many names to discuss.
The screening process is in the last stage and we should be ready to move on before this week is over. Stay tuned. Participants will receive a PM from me as soon as we're good to go.
Let's talk about the way we are going to proceed in round 2. Based on the foreseeable point gaps on the aggregate list, it would be convenient to start with nine players (#1-9 on the aggregate list) being eligible for vote 1. The top 4 vote getters from vote 1 will be added to the final list. We can also add the top 5 instead of top 4 in some rounds if the voting result calls for it (when the point gap between #4 and #5 is small compared to the point gap between #5 and #6). Given that there is less consensus on many of the players covered in this project than there was consensus or near-consensus in the earlier HOH projects, it makes sense to me to increase the number of eligible players from nine (vote 1) rather sooner than later during the process. We should discuss & rank up to 13-14 players at once by vote 3 or 4 in my opinion. Not more than 14 though, otherwise there are too many names to discuss.
Round 3 seems pretty early to expand the pool by that much. 13-14 names is already close to the maximum that we can discuss coherently at the same time.
What I find most concerning about this post is that you want us to rank 13-14 players at once in the next phase of voting. For a variety of reasons, if the target is to add 4 players in a round, we should just rank 8 of them, leaving the rest unranked.
Yes, but why not get close to the maximum early?
I'm unaware of these reasons, care to explain?
1) Having voters rank a long list of players makes it more difficult to focus on the players at the top of the ballot, who are the ones whose rankings actually matter at that point.
2) probably most importantly, the more players on the ballot, the more a single outlier low vote can tank a player's final ranking.
3) Seems pretty late in the game to change the rules now. What was the point of the long rules discussion before the start?