HOH Top-40 Goalies Voter Record - reckoning
- Thread starter seventieslord
- Start date
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
We have a Lorne Chabot fan siting! Seriously though, I wish you could have been around more to explain your thoughts on Hainsworth and Chabot.
You also have Richter high, but the emphasis on international hockey seems consistent with the high votes for the Soviet goalies.
For the record, this isn't the only 1st place listing for Plante - 3 other lists had him 1st, still fewer than I would have expected going into the project.
You also have Richter high, but the emphasis on international hockey seems consistent with the high votes for the Soviet goalies.
For the record, this isn't the only 1st place listing for Plante - 3 other lists had him 1st, still fewer than I would have expected going into the project.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Work in Progress
The initial data posted by BM67 re the 1930-31 and 1931-32 seasons combined with glimpses at other post consolidation seasons will result in an eventual re-evaluation upwards of mid twenties to pre 1935-36 goalies.
The initial data posted by BM67 re the 1930-31 and 1931-32 seasons combined with glimpses at other post consolidation seasons will result in an eventual re-evaluation upwards of mid twenties to pre 1935-36 goalies.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Why would the data cause them to all move up? And why should it change much of anything, considering it's quite spotty and inconsistent compared even to 50s-to-82 HSP data, and we already have a very good idea of how they were perceived by observers?
Canadiens1958
Registered User
The Game
Observers? How many quotes or accounts do we have from the leading observers - Elmer Ferguson and the like. Most of the quotes tend to be unattributed wire service stories.
The forward pass changed the game and as the data is compiled we will be able to judge how much it impacted goalie performance before and after.
Observers? How many quotes or accounts do we have from the leading observers - Elmer Ferguson and the like. Most of the quotes tend to be unattributed wire service stories.
The forward pass changed the game and as the data is compiled we will be able to judge how much it impacted goalie performance before and after.
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
- 13,553
- 27,137
I know you're going alphabetically, but you're going to post mine while I'm offline in Seattle, aren't you? 
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
We had enough to see that in many cases there was a near consensus on who the best goalie was- even among the league's GMs.
Very little appears to have changed with respect to who the best goalies were before and after forward passing. Not sure how relevant this is.
Regardless, point stands that these goalies can't ALL move up. If someone goes up, someone is likely to go down.
I enjoy BM67's research so far, but have been unable to comfortably draw any conclusions from it.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
I know you're going alphabetically, but you're going to post mine while I'm offline in Seattle, aren't you?
When will you be there? You're a few says away from being released still.
They have computers in Seattle I think!
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
- 13,553
- 27,137
When will you be there? You're a few says away from being released still.
They have computers in Seattle I think!
Friday through Tuesday. I'll be online in the evenings, but it will be harder to defend myself (maybe that's for the best - looking at my original list, it's hard to defend a few of my original picks
).
reckoning
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2005
- 7,023
- 1,271
Yes, I know I should have posted more in the threads (or even just a little bit). It wasn't intentional. I just thought the threads should be for contributing research and information about the candidates, and that was already being taken care of by others (thanks to overpass, TDMM, and everyone else who dug up articles and info. Great work as always). I wasn't looking to push for or against any particular goalie. There were times when I'd see a comment that I would want to post a rebuttal to (i.e. the 'Luongo cost his team playoff series' argument), only to see that someone else already had. Add in the winter being my busiest time at work, and you have a really low post count.
Things I would change if I redid my original list: I'd probably bump Parent and Cheevers down a few spots. It's hard to argue with multiple Cup wins, but they were both in ideal situations for their success that likely couldn't have happened anywhere else. I should've had Lehman and Connell a few spots higher. I fell into the trap of thinking that my top 50 already had too many guys from the early era, instead of just judging them solely on merit.
Things I stand by: Chabot- I see him as someone who was consistently solid year after year, but had the misfortune to often have little offensive support from his team in the playoffs. I can't find one loss where one could say it was his fault. Konovalenko- Obviously hard to judge, but I don't believe that a team could consistently win as much as the U.S.S.R. did in that era, without great goaltending. The lack of WHC Top Goaltender selections doesn't faze me, because they almost never gave it to the winning teams goalie. Liut- I consider him overrated. Got all the credit for the Blues big '81 season, despite the fact that they were the second highest scoring team in the league with incredible depth. Had some horrible playoffs. Thomas- Hate trying to rank goalies who are still active. Just couldn't put his brief NHL peak much higher. I'd still choose the consistency of Luongo or Lundqvist over him if I had to.
Things I would change if I redid my original list: I'd probably bump Parent and Cheevers down a few spots. It's hard to argue with multiple Cup wins, but they were both in ideal situations for their success that likely couldn't have happened anywhere else. I should've had Lehman and Connell a few spots higher. I fell into the trap of thinking that my top 50 already had too many guys from the early era, instead of just judging them solely on merit.
Things I stand by: Chabot- I see him as someone who was consistently solid year after year, but had the misfortune to often have little offensive support from his team in the playoffs. I can't find one loss where one could say it was his fault. Konovalenko- Obviously hard to judge, but I don't believe that a team could consistently win as much as the U.S.S.R. did in that era, without great goaltending. The lack of WHC Top Goaltender selections doesn't faze me, because they almost never gave it to the winning teams goalie. Liut- I consider him overrated. Got all the credit for the Blues big '81 season, despite the fact that they were the second highest scoring team in the league with incredible depth. Had some horrible playoffs. Thomas- Hate trying to rank goalies who are still active. Just couldn't put his brief NHL peak much higher. I'd still choose the consistency of Luongo or Lundqvist over him if I had to.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Thankfully, the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine captured the lists for this project, which were deleted during HF's adventure in software upgrades. Restoring them here in case the Wayback Machine link ever goes dead.
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| 1 | Jacques Plante |
| 2 | Dominik Hasek |
| 3 | Patrick Roy |
| 4 | Vladislav Tretiak |
| 5 | Terry Sawchuk |
| 6 | Martin Brodeur |
| 7 | Glenn Hall |
| 8 | Ken Dryden |
| 9 | Clint Benedict |
| 10 | Turk Broda |
| 11 | Bill Durnan |
| 12 | George Hainsworth |
| 13 | Bernie Parent |
| 14 | Johnny Bower |
| 15 | Georges Vezina |
| 16 | Ed Belfour |
| 17 | Frank Brimsek |
| 18 | Billy Smith |
| 19 | Jiri Holecek |
| 20 | Tony Esposito |
| 21 | Grant Fuhr |
| 22 | Charlie Gardiner |
| 23 | Gump Worsley |
| 24 | Curtis Joseph |
| 25 | Tiny Thompson |
| 26 | Harry Lumley |
| 27 | Roy Worters |
| 28 | Rogie Vachon |
| 29 | Lorne Chabot |
| 30 | Tom Barrasso |
| 31 | Gerry Cheevers |
| 32 | Mike Richter |
| 33 | Ed Giacomin |
| 34 | Roberto Luongo |
| 35 | Viktor Konovalenko |
| 36 | John Vanbiesbrouck |
| 37 | Dave Kerr |
| 38 | Mike Vernon |
| 39 | Chuck Rayner |
| 40 | Percy Lesueur |
| 41 | Henrik Lundqvist |
| 42 | Hap Holmes |
| 43 | Vladimir Dzurilla |
| 44 | Miikka Kiprusoff |
| 45 | Al Rollins |
| 46 | Normie Smith |
| 47 | Olaf Kolzig |
| 48 | Ron Hextall |
| 49 | Pete Peeters |
| 50 | Roger Crozier |
| 51 | Chris Osgood |
| 52 | Alec Connell |
| 53 | Hugh Lehman |
| 54 | Tim Thomas |
| 55 | Mike Liut |
| 56 | Leif Holmqvist |
| 57 | Jean-Sebastien Giguere |
| 58 | Chico Resch |
| 59 | John Ross Roach |
| 60 | Jiri Kralik |
