Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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Here's a list of either reitred or current NHLers who are either possibly destined for the Hall or are going to be, or are already in there. Should they or shouldnt they?
Adam Oates - Over 1400 points. Second team all-star in '91. No Cups, two Cup finals. 156 playoff points. led the league in assists three times. 5 times a top ten scorer, 3 of those fives times he was in the top three. Highest point seasons: 142, 115, 112, 102, 99.
Verdict: To me Oates is a shoo-in. A lot of people debate him but I say why? this is a guy who was the best pure passer after Gretzky. He had highs of 45 and 32 goals. After that it was 25. He wasnt a pure goal scorer but he still could score if he had to. he was just better at passing. look at his stats though they speak volumes. Sure fire HOFer IMO.
Gary Suter - 844 career points. One Cup in '89. Second team all-star in '88. Calder Trophy in '86. Average playoff numbers.
Verdict: He'll be a guy that'll be heavily debated for a while. In the late 80 to mid 90s he was a very good defenseman. Not great though, and its hard for a defenseman to get into the Hall with only one post season all-star nod. Serge Savard did, but he also won 8 Cups and a Conn Smythe trophy. With Suter I'll admit he's close but its hard to consider him great. He put up good offensive numbers, but he lacked the all around play that Chelios posessed. I'll say no to him.
Paul Kariya - No Cups, one Cup final. Average playoff numbers. Highest point totals: 108, 101, 99, 86, 81. So far. First team all-star ('96, '97, '99) second team ('00, '03). Career high 50 goals in a season. So far above a point per game in his career.
Verdict: This one is also tough. it might be safe to say that Kariya is a shadow of his former self. his '03-04 season was very bad for him. but we cant have short memories either. Remember in say, '96-97 to about '98-99 he was considered to be the best in the game? maybe Jagr and Hasek were better depending on who you asked, but he was right there with them. In '98 he had 17 goals in 22 games before Suter gave him a concussion. My opinion is that if Kariya goes on the way he is in Nashville and puts up good numbers then he'll get into the HOF just based on what he did before he was 29. That alone, along with 5 or 6 "solid" more seasons shoudl get him into the Hall of Fame and deservedly so. if his career is over tomorrow then I say no, he wasn't "that" great to get into the Hall over a short career, but my projection is that he'll be a 70 or so point guy for the rest of his career so coupled with what he did in Anaheim that's Hall material.
Lanny McDonald - Just hear me out first. One Cup, 1006 career points in 1111 games. 500 goals. Second team all-star in '77 and '83. Career high in points: 98, 93, 90, 87, 85. 117 playoff games, 84 points.
Verdict: Maybe I'm starting a controversy here, but this is my take on it. I'm not saying he shouldnt be in there but here's why he can be argued that he might be close. Twice he was in the top 10 in scoring, not bad. His prime was form '75-83. And there are some pretty impressive seasons there. but my knock is his seasons before and after that. I understand he was young from '73-75 and getting older from say '86-89 but he really had some sub par seasons those years. And that hurt his career overall stats. Also his playoff record is weak, he should have more than 84 points. But do a couple of famous playoff goals propel him into the HOF? In '78 he scored the OT game 7 winner against the heavily favoured Isels. Also in '89 he scored the "nail in the coffin" goal that put Calgary over motreal to win the Cup. But that was his only goal that playoffs. Sure he was 36 by then but still. I think the only thing that saves Lanny is what he did in Toronto. he did weel there. But he did well in calgary and Colorado too. He had 66 goals in '83. But his best years were as a Leaf. I like Lanny and dont make a big fuss over him being in there, but its close IMO, much like Steve Shutt.
John Leclair - One Cup, First all-star in '95, '98, Second all-star in '96, '97, '99. Scored 51, 50, 51 goals in a row. Also had seasons of 43, 40. Career high of 97 points, twice.
Verdict: Leclair is 36 years old now and watching him this year I can be sure that a 50 goal season is much behind him. He couldnt even crack team USA. He might get 40 points this year. So its his prime that will have to save him. He did have a very good prime from '95-00. now ask yoursefl this what did it coincide with? Eric Lindros. Yes Leclair was a power forward himself but form the moment he came to Philly Lindros catapulted him to superstardom. the difference between him and sya Steve Shutt is that we saw what Leclair is like without Lindros. He's been very average since '00. That and Shutt had good playoff stats, Lecalir does not. he won a Cup with the Habs in '93 and scored two very big goals in the finals both in OT, but other than in '97 he's never not once had a very good playoff. Leclair is not as good as Rick Martin or Glenn Anderson, and both of them have the stigma attached to them that they had a centre who made them who they are. Unfortunatley Leclair without Lindros is no better than a 50 point man.
Adam Oates - Over 1400 points. Second team all-star in '91. No Cups, two Cup finals. 156 playoff points. led the league in assists three times. 5 times a top ten scorer, 3 of those fives times he was in the top three. Highest point seasons: 142, 115, 112, 102, 99.
Verdict: To me Oates is a shoo-in. A lot of people debate him but I say why? this is a guy who was the best pure passer after Gretzky. He had highs of 45 and 32 goals. After that it was 25. He wasnt a pure goal scorer but he still could score if he had to. he was just better at passing. look at his stats though they speak volumes. Sure fire HOFer IMO.
Gary Suter - 844 career points. One Cup in '89. Second team all-star in '88. Calder Trophy in '86. Average playoff numbers.
Verdict: He'll be a guy that'll be heavily debated for a while. In the late 80 to mid 90s he was a very good defenseman. Not great though, and its hard for a defenseman to get into the Hall with only one post season all-star nod. Serge Savard did, but he also won 8 Cups and a Conn Smythe trophy. With Suter I'll admit he's close but its hard to consider him great. He put up good offensive numbers, but he lacked the all around play that Chelios posessed. I'll say no to him.
Paul Kariya - No Cups, one Cup final. Average playoff numbers. Highest point totals: 108, 101, 99, 86, 81. So far. First team all-star ('96, '97, '99) second team ('00, '03). Career high 50 goals in a season. So far above a point per game in his career.
Verdict: This one is also tough. it might be safe to say that Kariya is a shadow of his former self. his '03-04 season was very bad for him. but we cant have short memories either. Remember in say, '96-97 to about '98-99 he was considered to be the best in the game? maybe Jagr and Hasek were better depending on who you asked, but he was right there with them. In '98 he had 17 goals in 22 games before Suter gave him a concussion. My opinion is that if Kariya goes on the way he is in Nashville and puts up good numbers then he'll get into the HOF just based on what he did before he was 29. That alone, along with 5 or 6 "solid" more seasons shoudl get him into the Hall of Fame and deservedly so. if his career is over tomorrow then I say no, he wasn't "that" great to get into the Hall over a short career, but my projection is that he'll be a 70 or so point guy for the rest of his career so coupled with what he did in Anaheim that's Hall material.
Lanny McDonald - Just hear me out first. One Cup, 1006 career points in 1111 games. 500 goals. Second team all-star in '77 and '83. Career high in points: 98, 93, 90, 87, 85. 117 playoff games, 84 points.
Verdict: Maybe I'm starting a controversy here, but this is my take on it. I'm not saying he shouldnt be in there but here's why he can be argued that he might be close. Twice he was in the top 10 in scoring, not bad. His prime was form '75-83. And there are some pretty impressive seasons there. but my knock is his seasons before and after that. I understand he was young from '73-75 and getting older from say '86-89 but he really had some sub par seasons those years. And that hurt his career overall stats. Also his playoff record is weak, he should have more than 84 points. But do a couple of famous playoff goals propel him into the HOF? In '78 he scored the OT game 7 winner against the heavily favoured Isels. Also in '89 he scored the "nail in the coffin" goal that put Calgary over motreal to win the Cup. But that was his only goal that playoffs. Sure he was 36 by then but still. I think the only thing that saves Lanny is what he did in Toronto. he did weel there. But he did well in calgary and Colorado too. He had 66 goals in '83. But his best years were as a Leaf. I like Lanny and dont make a big fuss over him being in there, but its close IMO, much like Steve Shutt.
John Leclair - One Cup, First all-star in '95, '98, Second all-star in '96, '97, '99. Scored 51, 50, 51 goals in a row. Also had seasons of 43, 40. Career high of 97 points, twice.
Verdict: Leclair is 36 years old now and watching him this year I can be sure that a 50 goal season is much behind him. He couldnt even crack team USA. He might get 40 points this year. So its his prime that will have to save him. He did have a very good prime from '95-00. now ask yoursefl this what did it coincide with? Eric Lindros. Yes Leclair was a power forward himself but form the moment he came to Philly Lindros catapulted him to superstardom. the difference between him and sya Steve Shutt is that we saw what Leclair is like without Lindros. He's been very average since '00. That and Shutt had good playoff stats, Lecalir does not. he won a Cup with the Habs in '93 and scored two very big goals in the finals both in OT, but other than in '97 he's never not once had a very good playoff. Leclair is not as good as Rick Martin or Glenn Anderson, and both of them have the stigma attached to them that they had a centre who made them who they are. Unfortunatley Leclair without Lindros is no better than a 50 point man.
