News Article: Ho-Sang Forced to Retire from Hockey

[Throttle]

Agreed. Wishing him the best. I also miss when the organization took swings like this.

You miss a cap floor team taking ‘swings’ hoping to obtain talent since no one wanted to play on LI? Interesting.

 

[Isles Fan]

Want to know why Ho Sang was never coveted by any other team, and I mean not a single one, except the Isles? Because the rest of the league knew a no talent over hyped ghost when they saw one.

Ho Sang would have never gotten an NHL sniff if not for the Isles, and deservedly so.

 

[JPIsles18]

You miss a cap floor team taking ‘swings’ hoping to obtain talent since no one wanted to play on LI? Interesting.

No, I miss actually trying to draft talent.

 

[Throttle]

No, I miss actually trying to draft talent.

With a .02 cent head, probably a wing and a prayer to waste that pick on. Kinda obvious at the time. Traded two second rounders for the privilege. Ivan Barbashev was in the area for selection. Luckily, Snow drafted a Sorokin (this after passing on Vanecek, Elvis, Demko, and Ned). He was either super smart or just drafted a goalie, well, because he wanted to or needed to.

 

[saintunspecified]

A key component to the Ho-Sang story is that he doesn't need the money.

Lots of pro hockey players come from very wealthy families, but very few of them are first generation (and on both sides).

For those who watch, the Nathan Shelley arc in Ted Lasso is really about how Nate didn't really get English football culture, and how his family supported him in a way that was (unintentionally) antithetical to his operating in that culture. I have no idea about Ho-Sang in his life, but I wouldn't be surprised that Canadian hockey culture could similarly baffle him, and his family.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

Lots of pro hockey players come from very wealthy families, but very few of them are first generation (and on both sides).

For those who watch, the Nathan Shelley arc in Ted Lasso is really about how Nate didn't really get English football culture, and how his family supported him in a way that was (unintentionally) antithetical to his operating in that culture. I have no idea about Ho-Sang in his life, but I wouldn't be surprised that Canadian hockey culture could similarly baffle him, and his family.

Hockey has to be by far the most expensive sport to play. All I could afford as a kid was a used stick, some skates and if i was feeling rich some shin pads. whatever wasn't covered you just iced the injuries later on!

Makes sense its a sport comprised of rich kids. Whereas basketball all you need to play is a $10 basketball.

 

[scott99]

I forget now - did we win our last game of the season in 2013 that caused us to drop from #3 to #5 in the draft? Either way, the chalk picks were Draisatl and Bennett which would have been fundamentally different than MDC - obviously Draisatl on a different plane.

Amazing that we struck out so spectacularly with MDC/JHS and still hit on Sorokin and Toews later on. If those first 2 picks panned out, we could have had a franchise altering haul.

I remember when the Islanders drafted Sorokin. I had read an article about him a couple of weeks prior to the draft, so when we picked him, I knew who he was and was really happy with the pick. I was ok with the Toews pick, typical overaged late round pick by the Isles. Nobody ever thought he’d turn out being that good.

Missing out on Draisatl hurt, but oddly enough, I remember people worrying about his skating. Now look at him.

 

[doublechili]

Lots of pro hockey players come from very wealthy families, but very few of them are first generation (and on both sides).

For those who watch, the Nathan Shelley arc in Ted Lasso is really about how Nate didn't really get English football culture, and how his family supported him in a way that was (unintentionally) antithetical to his operating in that culture. I have no idea about Ho-Sang in his life, but I wouldn't be surprised that Canadian hockey culture could similarly baffle him, and his family.

I recall reading somewhere way back when that JHS was raised to be true to himself, question authority, etc.. Which is fine, but probably not the best fit for the NHL.

 

[Bood12]

Obviously I am wrong, but I didn’t think Ho-Sang looked out of place when he got his extended looks with the Islanders.

why are you in the wrong? he looked good in most of his time on the Islanders, than for whatever reason the Islanders decided it was more important to give Dal Colle alot longer look when Dal Colle didn't look good in 1 shift of his NHL tenure

 

[Bood12]

I’ll never forget his one timer slapshot on the PP up in the Saddledome (I think) and the breakaway goal against the Sabres.

Thought we had found a game breaker.

Sucks

we probably did, he was just never given a fair shake, you will never convince me if Ho-Sang got 1/2 of the rope Beauivlier got he would not turn into a consistent 50 point a year guy

 

[Bood12]

A long enough period of time has passed where I can relay this story without getting yelled at, hopefully some of the long-standing members can appreciate what I did in the past here enough to give what I say some weight…..

The second time JHS was given the boot was due to players being upset with him being on FaceTime with a girl in the Family room when he wasn’t dressed for the game - during a game. Some of the Wives and Girlfriends actually scolded him.

It didn’t sit well with some of the players who matter, to say the least.

It’s on a long list of dumb decisions made by someone who’s immaturity was clearly a la

that is actually really interesting and it could explain my above post as why Ho-Sang disappeared and Dal Colle was given the ride, it also makes me dislike the roster than because as a fan all I care about is winning and Ho-Sang made the team better

 

[Seph]

Looking back I am still fine with the pick. Give me a JHS home run swing over a safe pick like Holmstrom seems to be. Round one should always be for drafting elite level talent.

JHS was that. Unfortunately he was an absolute idiot.

That was the same logic the Isles used when they passed on the safe choice of Parise to take a homerun swing on the guy with the dazzling skills in Nilsson. Kempe was taken with the pick after JHS, was notably safer as a pick due to his much better rounded game and size, and his upside was still pretty good. And Kempe just put up a 40goal season in the NHL. In the first round, I don't think you can ever ignore the risks involved with a pick.

That said, at the time, I fully admit I liked the pick, and it was at least very late in the 1st round that it was made. I'm sure part of it was just copium to deal with him and Collberg being all we had to show for Moulson, a 1st, two 2nds and a 5th. But I did love his upside, and hoped his attitude issues were overblown or could at least be fixed with coaching and maturity.

Anyway, sorry to hear about this happening to him. It's a shame as I think he could have had a very nice European career.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

we probably did, he was just never given a fair shake, you will never convince me if Ho-Sang got 1/2 of the rope Beauivlier got he would not turn into a consistent 50 point a year guy

You cannot be serious.

 

[Seph]

that is actually really interesting and it could explain my above post as why Ho-Sang disappeared and Dal Colle was given the ride, it also makes me dislike the roster than because as a fan all I care about is winning and Ho-Sang made the team better

All you care about is winning, but dislike the roster because it disapproved of a player showing he didn't care about winning?

Yeah, OK, that makes sense.

 

[saintunspecified]

Hockey has to be by far the most expensive sport to play. All I could afford as a kid was a used stick, some skates and if i was feeling rich some shin pads. whatever wasn't covered you just iced the injuries later on!

My son plays an 'expensive' sport (lacrosse), and it's got nothing on hockey.

From what I understand from family with kids who play hockey, the equipment isn't really a huge issue because folks do a pretty good job passing equipment on/along. It's all about the cost of ice time.

 

[saintunspecified]

That was the same logic the Isles used when they passed on the safe choice of Parise to take a homerun swing on the guy with the dazzling skills in Nilsson. Kempe was taken with the pick after JHS, was notably safer as a pick due to his much better rounded game and size, and his upside was still pretty good. And Kempe just put up a 40goal season in the NHL. In the first round, I don't think you can ever ignore the risks involved with a pick.

All true,. And, in context, Dal Colle was very much the bigger miss in that draft. Pretty clearly they should have taken the homerun swing on the guy with dazzling skills (Nylander), or the slight Danish player with a good first step than the safer, protectible, high-character winger with size. There are lots of ways to miss in the draft.

The problem I always have with Ho-Sang talk is that it is so overblown, and moralistic,. People talk about Ho-Sang in the same way as they did about Alexander Daigle, and I'm not saying that the way people talked about Daigle was right. My point is that Ho-Sang was never ever thought to be on that kind of talent level.

 

[Seph]

All true,. And, in context, Dal Colle was very much the bigger miss in that draft. Pretty clearly they should have taken the homerun swing on the guy with dazzling skills (Nylander), or the slight Danish player with a good first step than the safer, protectible, high-character winger with size. There are lots of ways to miss in the draft.

The problem I always have with Ho-Sang talk is that it is so overblown, and moralistic,. People talk about Ho-Sang in the same way as they did about Alexander Daigle, and I'm not saying that the way people talked about Daigle was right. My point is that Ho-Sang was never ever thought to be on that kind of talent level.

I'm not sure what your point is about MDC turning out worse than Nylander/Ehlers. That I don't think one can ignore risk doesn't mean I think it should be the only factor in the draft decision. Drafting based on only a single factor (upside) was your argument, not mine.

It's also worth pointing out that MDC's skating was very much a risk that got ignored (or at least underplayed), and his pre-draft stats indicated a very high upside -- in fact, most scouting services felt he showed a higher upside than Nylander or Ehlers.

 

[PK Cronin]

we probably did, he was just never given a fair shake, you will never convince me if Ho-Sang got 1/2 of the rope Beauivlier got he would not turn into a consistent 50 point a year guy

This is the only thing you ever post here, nobody is interested, cut it out.

 

[saintunspecified]

I'm not sure what your point is about MDC turning out worse than Nylander/Ehlers. That I don't think one can ignore risk doesn't mean I think it should be the only factor in the draft decision. Drafting based on only a single factor (upside) was your argument, not mine.

My point, really, is that these were narratives that developed over time, and were not necessarily relevant to the information available at the time of the draft, and/or of the perceived quality of the information available at the time of the draft also depends on narratives that later developed.

It's also worth pointing out that MDC's skating was very much a risk that got ignored (or at least underplayed), and his pre-draft stats indicated a very high upside -- in fact, most scouting services felt he showed a higher upside than Nylander or Ehlers.

That's right. And a lot of the scouting services indicated that JHS's upside was ridiculously high. And, on the one hand, there were people who were convinced that there were reasons that he'd never succeed, and then there were people who thought those folks drew conclusions that far outstripped their information. The narrative that developed after the draft tends to leak into what we thought the information was at the time.

 

[Seph]

My point, really, is that these were narratives that developed over time, and were not necessarily relevant to the information available at the time of the draft, OR of the perceived quality of the information available at the time of the draft.

That's right. And a lot of the scouting services indicated that JHS's upside was ridiculously high. And, on the one hand, there were people who were convinced that there were reasons that he'd never succeed, and then there were people who thought those folks drew conclusions that far outstripped their information. The narrative that developed after the draft tends to leak into what we thought the information was at the time.

Huh? I'm literally talking about the perceptions at the time leading into the draft. Has nothing to do with narratives that developed after that.

Here are some quotes from profiles written prior to the draft that highlight how he was considered a very risky pick:

"Josh Ho-Sang is one of this year’s biggest “boom or bust” prospects. The skill is clearly apparent, and it is clearly high-end, very high-end. This is a player who has the talent level to be a top 10 ranked guy. The issues, consistency of effort, attitude, discipline, and defense will cause him to fall."

"Still there are too many times he’s in the wrong position, or outmuscled by an opponent, or his effort level could be higher."

"What can’t be debated is the fact that he has a tendency to take undisciplined penalties when things don't go his way on the ice, and that can hurt his team"

The 3 quotes above are from: 2014 NHL Draft Profile #25: Josh Ho-Sang

"Consistency is the major red flag that jumps out with Ho-Sang’s game, however, and is something that really mitigates his upside as a first round pick. The 5-foot-11 forward can be the best player on the ice when he wants to be, but he often takes shifts (or games) off and really leaves a lot to be desired."

"Tends to depend more on his own abilities and tend to be a one-man show, refusing to pass the puck to open the ice. Sees himself as the best option on most attacks and the opposition has begun to know that"

The 2 quotes above are from: Josh Ho-Sang – The Next Ones: NHL 2014 Draft Prospect Profile