Post-Game Talk: Hit em with the 4 like AM34. Leafs lose 4th straight game 7 to Boston: 2-1

[Gabriel426]

Woll played about average, Sammy played below, not sure we win still.



Top guys? Everyone... our D was atrocious once they left their own end.

It is not just the top guys... I'm assuming we had the least points by D.

But we know that our D won’t provide offence from the beginning. Not like our D was scoring goals left, right, front and center in the regular season. To blame our D for not providing any offense is just like saying Reavo didn’t at least get a goal in the series.

 

[Divine]

You said average goaltending and we win... Woll was well above average

Was he? I didn't think he had to make any spectacular saves. He just didn't let in the bad goals that Samsonov did.

Boston scored on a routine save to bring the game to OT. Then Pastrnak went through the crease with Samsonov forgetting that he has a goal stick.

It's unreal how much Samsonov panics when he doesn't have a goal stick but then he doesn't use it when a player is going cross crease.

Woll got a tripping penalty last game for using his goal stick when a player tries to go through the paint - he actually know how to play goalie.

 

[Squiffy]

And six of you include game 5 vs Columbus.

It's a cherry picked data set, but if you look at the teams goal differential after taking the lead in game 7 in 2018, game 6 in 2022, game 7 in 2024, after winning their 2nd game in 2020, and after winning their 3rd game in 2019 & 2021, they've scored 10 goals and allowed 32.

That's in approximately 7 full games worth of hockey.

1.42 GPG. 4.56 GAA.

Neither number is acceptable. I don't know which is worse.

Disgusting.

Disgusting is correct.

I can't coherently express myself right now. This year is different is true for once in a different way

 

[NarcoPolo]

Never going to win with Rielly playing 24+ minutes a night. Guy is a complete liability in his own end, Always has been always will be. He’s a glorified #4D and can’t be relied upon to defend at an NHL level.

 

[Bomber0104]

then why did Lou sign perenial loser Patrick Marleau to be a mentor to the young leafs. Lou, Dubas, Hunter etc have all sucked for the leafs

Great question, might not have been throwing 50% of the cap at the rookies immediately perhaps?

Maybe also had a plan to address the fact that they only had Rielly on defence at the time in 2016.

Lou was never one for precedent-setting RFA contracts.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

You win 1-0 and no one is talking about our lack of scoring. Give us average goaltending and we win this series.

Most playoff teams win 2-1 and 1-0 games. The Bruins just won 2-1.

Do you win 1-0? Leafs weren't very good tonight and I'm sure Bruins would've been all over them. Heck, leafs were scrambling around on that goal after failing to clear the zone twice

Where was the offense that finished 2nd in goals during the season?

 

[Divine]

Do you win 1-0? Leafs weren't very good tonight and I'm sure Bruins would've been all over them. Heck, leafs were scrambling around on that goal after failing to clear the zone twice

Where was the offense that finished 2nd in goals during the season?

The offense that finished 2nd in the league in goals had their two top scorers miss more games in the playoffs than they did all of the regular season.

They had similar stats in the regular season and playoffs against Swayman - so no shock there. We don't get to light up Ottawa and Montreal in the playoffs.

 

[notbias]

Was he? I didn't think he had to make any spectacular saves. He just didn't let in the bad goals that Samsonov did.

He had a .964 sv% and 0.86 GAA... both best in the post-season, yes he was above average.

But we know that our D won’t provide offence from the beginning. Not like our D was scoring goals left, right, front and center in the regular season. To blame our D for not providing any offense is just like saying Reavo didn’t at least get a goal in the series.

I'm not saying the D needs to lead the charge, but the puck generally starts there.

We get less offensive every year and people wonder why we aren't scoring more goals.

 

[Divine]

He had a .964 sv% and 0.86 GAA... both best in the post-season, yes he was above average.

His stats were but he wasn't making many difficult saves because he didn't have to.

Swayman stopped 3 breakaways this game. Samsonov went 0 for 1. If Swayman doesn't stop 3 breakaways, Pastrnak doesn't get a chance to score in OT.

 

[Gabriel426]

We had a 69 goalscorer who got injured in the series. He still led our team in points. We had another 98 point player who missed the first 3 games.

Then, here are our 2 goalies:

Like I said. Goaltending was not our only problem. Just like scoring was also not our only problem. Both can be true at the same time

 

[WillNy29]

Great question, might not have been throwing 50% of the cap at the rookies immediately perhaps?

Maybe also had a plan to address the fact that they only had Rielly on defence at the time in 2016.

Lou was never one for precedent-setting RFA contracts.

Lou apparently caused some friction in negotiations with Marner and then Matthews as well from someone i know who knows one of those 2 families.

He wasn't what youre trying to make him out to be he was crap here. and im not saying that as a defense of dubas or anything either he was crap too. Should have signed justin williams but instead turned around and signed marleau.

Dubas was a moron too players like Hronek and Toews became available but he was too busy trading for the folignos of the world and kept no assets. Mark Hunters scouting was below par too. Just a hodge podge of idiots.

Shanny striking out on Kelly McCrimmon sucks because word has it McCrimmon didn't want to work with Hunter

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

The offense that finished 2nd in the league in goals had their two top scorers miss more games in the playoffs than they did all of the regular season.

They had similar stats in the regular season and playoffs against Swayman - so no shock there. We don't get to light up Ottawa and Montreal in the playoffs.

So the end result is averaging fewer than 2 goals a game? That's a pretty significant drop off in production, regardless of the excuses.

And it's not just this year. What happened vs Florida last year when everyone was healthy? 10 goals in 5 games.

 

[Gabriel426]

He had a .964 sv% and 0.86 GAA... both best in the post-season, yes he was above average.



I'm not saying the D needs to lead the charge, but the puck generally starts there.

We get less offensive every year and people wonder why we aren't scoring more goals.

I think it starts with our PP, 5% on the PP is unacceptable.
Then we need our top guys scoring more.

 

[Divine]

So the end result is averaging fewer than 2 goals a game? That's a pretty significant drop off in production, regardless of the excuses.

And it's not just this year. What happened vs Florida last year when everyone was healthy? 10 goals in 5 games.

The Leafs change their game in the playoffs. Maybe that's on Keefe and he needs to be fired.

The one thing that everyone ignores when talking about the offense drying up is that they always allow fewer goals in the playoffs too. Maybe they emphasize defence more in the playoffs because they're playing against better teams?

When all the games are 2-1, 1-0, or 3-2 the bad goals are a backbreaker when the other goalie hasn't allowed a bad goal in the entire series.

 

[Bomber0104]

Lou apparently caused some friction in negotiations with Marner and then Matthews as well from someone i know who knows one of those 2 families.

He wasn't what youre trying to make him out to be he was crap here. and im not saying that as a defense of dubas or anything either he was crap too. Should have signed justin williams but instead turned around and signed marleau.

Dubas was a moron too players like Hronek and Toews became available but he was too busy trading for the folignos of the world and kept no assets. Mark Hunters scouting was below par too. Just a hodge podge of idiots.

Shanny striking out on Kelly McCrimmon sucks because word has it McCrimmon didn't want to work with Hunter

It's actually a great thing when your GM pushes back against player agents' wishes.

Not sure you realize this but because these players got paid so well, that prevents them from having a decent supporting crew around them.

Bascially Pandoras Box got unleashed on them.

They wanted all the money, but because there's no money left for the team around them, they're not able to have success because that's actually what's needed to win in the NHL.

You can't have it both ways.

They wanted to have it all, and lead the way.

They've failed, yet again.

 

[Dave92]

this is hyperbolic. pros have a level of relatability that garners each other’s respect on some level. fans take it too far. no kid entering the league will respect m/m less because they suck in a round of 16 between the best 0.001% of hockey players in the world. truth is most of these dudes are probably okay people struggling to pursue and stick to their goals like the rest of most of us with the difference being millions watch their success/failure with it every week.

marner rielly liljegren tavares and samsonov need to go though. team looks decent with edmundson mccabe benoit woll nylander matthews knies domi bertuzzi and fill the rest with good fits

It definitly affects how their peers look at them. The "core four" are literally not figuratively the joke of the league and the hockey world, the other players are watching this and laughing their ass off tonight. Young players know these guys as losers with their yearly playoff choke.

It needs to be blown up for their mental health as much as anything, it's bizarre that it was allowed to go this long. No team in any sport had ever lost 6 consecutive 1st rounds and the Leafs did it with the same roster and they STILL have the same roster talking about belief in themselves up until an hour ago.

 

[WillNy29]

It's actually a great thing when your GM pushes back against player agents' wishes.

Not sure you realize this but because these players got paid so well, that prevents them from having a decent supporting crew around them.

Bascially Pandoras Box got unleashed on them.

They wanted all the money, but because there's no money left for the team they're not able to have success because that's actually what's needed to win in the NHL.

You can't have it both ways.

it wasnt the push back it was telling one rookie he doesnt give performance bonuses on ELC and then turning around and giving it to the other LOL.

you know its ok to admit that he sucked here along with the others right?

 

[Gabriel426]

The Leafs change their game in the playoffs. Maybe that's on Keefe and he needs to be fired.

The one thing that everyone ignores when talking about the offense drying up is that they always allow fewer goals in the playoffs too. Maybe they emphasize defence more in the playoffs because they're playing against better teams?

When all the games are 2-1, 1-0, or 3-2 the bad goals are a backbreaker when the other goalie hasn't allowed a bad goal in the entire series.

True but look at the Avs. How come their guys seem to have no problem scoring against Helle and the Jets. Jets is a much better team than the Bruins.

 

[KapG]

So disappointing

 

[Divine]

True but look at the Avs. How come their guys seem to have no problem scoring against Helle and the Jets. Jets is a much better team than the Bruins.

Helly sucked in the playoffs last year and this year. .886 last year in their 5 game series against Vegas and .870 this year in their 5 game series against Colorado

Let's see them doing it against Dallas/Vegas - but the Avs also allow many more goals than we do in the playoffs. They just play a track meet style and try to outscore the competition.

Our team tries to win games 2-1 or 3-2. Keefe clearly prioritizes defence over offense.

 

[ruaware41]

It didn’t matter how much Dubas paid them. They couldn’t perform in the playoffs.
Like if AM plays like Mack in the playoffs, we could had easily won more than one round by now.
If MM plays like he does in the regular season, we could easily won more than one round by now.
JT was supposed to be the player who pushed us over but like the other two, he didn’t have that playoff gear.
Willie seemed to be only one who at the very least maintain his level in the playoffs.
You can’t have someone who only played 4 of the 7 games in the series leading the team in goals at THREE while also had as many goals as the top three forwards in term of salary and expect the team to win a series.
We can crap on Sammy all we want but how can any teams win a playoffs series if they can only score 2 goals per game?

it matters because it’s a cap league and there’s a limited amount to go around that’s needed to be somewhat optimized to get good enough players to win and because what paul nylander/willy did kinda establishes a philosophy that the individual well and truly comes before the group - written in bold letters and in capitals. I love this guy he’s my favourite player and has been since the day he was drafted. Stayed up at stupid o clock regularly translating swedish pages to find streams to watch him play on modo in the shl after he got drafted by the leafs and his ahl days and was one of the best performers in this series. But I’m just calling it objectively without revisionist history. He did establish a bad precedent. I was personally very against the jt signing. It made no sense to ditch the original plan of a rebuild and accelerate it and go back to what fans were crying to get away from. the same fans as soon as the team saw the tiniest bit of success went bat shit insane at any potential ufa that might be hitting the market next year in 2 years or 3 years. it was insane in here. jt! stamkos! pietrangelo!

mlse is owned by corporations not individuals. and they don’t care if this team wins. they care about money. when they see fans going beserk at wanting a big ufa you bet they will pressure shanny to have the ufa signed to make more money. jersey sales merch etc. this is the most irrational fan base in sports. it’s a sad poetic justice that an impatient greedy fan base and management that chased tavares scored 1 pp goal and 1 non garbage goal in a 7 game series after investing 40m in 4 forwards.

matthews and the leafs can not have the identity of a mackinnon. one is a fast skating centre who is a play maker who can score a lot too. that’s what you need as your best player in the post season. Matthews is the leafs best player who the team will try to force a pass to as he’s primarily proven himself to be a goal scorer. it’s way more predictable. same story with ovi. when they did finally win kuznetsov played like a very elite centre.

i’m not denying nylander has been a clutch player

 

[Bomber0104]

it wasnt the push back it was telling one rookie he doesnt give performance bonuses on ELC and then turning around and giving it to the other LOL.

you know its ok to admit that he sucked here along with the others right?

I think turning around a last place team that drafted Matthews into a playoff team over one year was a pretty notable success.

Lou saw that happen.

Name one other leap the team has made of that magnitude since then.

Taking five years to win a single playoff round?

Was that as good?

That's what Dubas did.

He's an absolute loser.

No other way to describe his tenure here but an absolute fail.

Everyone sees this except a select few "Leafs fans".

 

[notbias]

I think it starts with our PP, 5% on the PP is unacceptable.
Then we need our top guys scoring more.

I agree, it was a huge issue.

The core was an issue.

We just knew they were coming back, and we've had scoring issues for multiple years, and the game plan was to get less offensive.

 

[Dave92]

Swayman vs Samsonov 4-0 sweep by Swayman
Woll vs Samsonov 2-0

Samsonov had one win... against Ullmark.

Look at the tale of the 2 goaltenders playing behind the same team:

Samsanov showed up tonight. He's not good and won't be back but he's dead last on the list of who i would blame for the loss.

 

[Gabriel426]

Helle never has a good playoffs.

Let's see them doing it against Dallas/Vegas

You can’t just say Helle didn’t had a good playoffs and discredit a team who score 5 goals a game.
The way the Avs create space and attack the zone was something I wish our guys can do. And that not just Mack and Makar either, their whole team plays that way.
Like I said, our top guys esp MM and JT really didn’t deliver.