HFBoards Top 32 Centers - #4

[LT]

Rank	Player	Votes	Team	GP	G	A	P
1	Connor McDavid	82/86 (95%)	Edmonton Oilers	80	44	79	123
2	Auston Matthews	150/283 (53%)	Toronto Maple Leafs	73	60	46	106
3	Nathan MacKinnon	152/298 (51%)	Colorado Avalanche	65	32	56	88
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

To add:
Mathew Barzal
Elias Lindholm
Elias Pettersson
JT Miller
Anze Kopitar
Roope Hintz

Click to read more...

 

[Mrb1p]

Draisaitl easily.
And then Crosby at #5 just as easily



I think these rankings have to be a mix of how good you are, but also how good you've done recently. Draisaitl has done significantly better than Crosby multiple years in a row, including both last season and playoffs. In larger sample size too (playoffs). No reason whatsoever to rank Crosby above him at this point - even if you believe he somehow can still be better at his best.

Draisaitl legitimately beat a peak Wayne Gretzky scoring record last year (most playoff points in a 5 game series) - how insane is that?

Draisaitl has *produced* significantly better raw numbers.

Theres a clear disconnect with how hes looked on the ice and how hes produced. He has an amazing shot, IMO the best pure goalscorer in the league after Ovi, and hes consistently insane when he has the puck, consistently being one of the best passing forward in the league. His impact though, is miles behind Crosby as a player on all sides of the ice. Its funny because the same thing people used to say Crosby was not good enough at, hes become a master at it without losing much if any of his offensive impact. (Production is another thing, that did dip.)

Again, I hate taking anything away from Draisaitl, but not Crosby.

The age old question if who youd take in a game 7 if you had the choice is a perfect example.

His team didn’t even make it out of round 1 vs a Rangers team that requires their goalie to stand on his head most nights.

Disingenuous because he got injured by a gutless and dirty play. He was pouding the Rangers before that, he looked every bit as good as Mcdavid did in his respective first round.

Had Draisaitl faced a goaltender like Shesterkin, do you believe he wouldve produced as much as he did? The Markstrom freebies helped him quite a bit, dont you think? Insane regardless.

Also funny that Draisaitls team went to 7 games against a team that relied on their old man goaltender even more than the Rangers. Of all the arguments you couldve made, you really chose the figurative leaf rake up right on your nose.

Really? 4 good games and not showing up for G7 is better than Brayden Point leading the playoffs in goals in back to back years?

Yes. Why did he not show up for game 7? (He had a point in 19 minutes, btw.)

I would really like to hear you elaborate on this.

I just think Crosby is a better player when healthy and on the ice. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

His team didn’t even make it out of round 1 vs a Rangers team that requires their goalie to stand on his head most nights.

First let me say I'd opt for Draisaitl in this spot, so I'm not arguing Crosby is ahead of him. However, this line of argument seems really hypocritical considering how often Oilers fans have defended McDavid/Draisaitl against the "lack of team success in playoffs" thing whenever it's used against them.

Crosby was absolutely dominant against the Rangers. It's not his fault his AHL level goalie literally let in game winners from blueline shots that were supposed to be hard dump ins to get a faceoff. Holding him not getting out of the first round against his individual performance is no different than saying McDavid's not better than Mackinnon because he hasn't ever made the Cup finals or won a Cup.

 

[Steven Toast]

I just think Crosby is a better player when healthy and on the ice. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fine to think Crosby is better than Draisaitl, but I think most would disagree. I was referring to you stating that Draisaitl wasn't good in the 22 playoffs.

He was playing on one leg for like 3/4 of those games and doing nothing on the ice. Productiong is nice, but he wasnt good.

Please explain how Draisaitl "wasn't good".

 

[Mrb1p]

Fine to think Crosby is better than Draisaitl, but I think most would disagree. I was referring to you stating that Draisaitl wasn't good in the 22 playoffs.



Please explain how Draisaitl "wasn't good".

I mean of course he was good... Its semantics and I agree it may have been confusing. I think Crosby is still the 2nd best player in the league, and he showed that when it matters its him against the world again in the POs.

Its moreso a matter of relative evaluation vs raw numbers. Draisaitl was good, he was not 2nd best player in the world good. (I dont think anyone is going to argue against that, he wasnt even skating around because of his leg.)

With that said, injuries dont matter in absolute player evaluations and I put everyone at 100% when I do it (Hence, why I value Crosby so high.).

Of the three centers voted above Sid, I take the least offense from Drai though, Matthews and especially Mackinnon shouldnt be ahead of Crosby (And they sure as shit shouldnt be ahead of Drai, at least not if Mcdavid is... how does that make sense).

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Matthews and especially Mackinnon shouldnt be ahead of Crosby

Well, I guess you know better than the players.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well, I guess you know better than the players.

Well I sure as shit can see McDavid is miles ahead of Matthews, yeah. Do you think players are shielded from personal bias?

Do you think Matthews is better than McDavid?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Well I sure as shit can see McDavid is miles ahead of Matthews, yeah. Do you think players are shielded from personal bias?

Do you think Matthews is better than McDavid?

Of course not, but I think he had 1 better regular season. I doubt it happens again, and I am sure they had some voter fatigue.

However, the context was you being most offended by Matthews and MacK being voted before Crosby. What's your argument for that? Is it just Matthews' lack of playoff success?

 

[Mrb1p]

Of course not, but I think he had 1 better regular season. I doubt it happens again, and I am sure they had some voter fatigue.

However, the context was you being most offended by Matthews and MacK being voted before Crosby. What's your argument for that? Is it just Matthews' lack of playoff success?

Thanks you explained a lot of why your indignation at my opinion means nothing.

 

[pcruz]

Fine to think Crosby is better than Draisaitl, but I think most would disagree. I was referring to you stating that Draisaitl wasn't good in the 22 playoffs.



Please explain how Draisaitl "wasn't good".

Draisaitl was a terrible centre in the '22 playoffs.

So poor that he was bumped from the centre position to the wing.

Unless people watched the playoffs and assumed McDavid was playing the wing there.

 

[Steven Toast]

Draisaitl was a terrible centre in the '22 playoffs.

So poor that he was bumped from the centre position to the wing.

Unless people watched the playoffs and assumed McDavid was playing the wing there.

Well he didn't play much centre outside of the first 5 games of round 1... so I'm not sure what your point is? He was still historically good in the postseason (how often is a peak Gretzky offensive record broken?). Do you disagree?

 

[pcruz]

Well he didn't play much centre outside of the first 5 games of round 1... so I'm not sure what your point is? He was still historically good in the postseason (how often is a peak Gretzky offensive record broken?). Do you disagree?

He is an amazing player.
That's not ever in question.

The question is whether he is the 4th best centre in the league, so using statistics of a playoff run where he was not used in that role don't make sense to me.

Makar, Rantanen and Landeskog were all great in the playoffs too, but since none of those played centre, their great playoff run of 2022 doesn't factor into where they rank in terms of centres.

There is no question that McDavid is the alpha dog in that team. He's the best player in the league.
Personally, I'd have Matthews #2 and then Draisaitl/Sid/Mack as the 3/4/5 centres.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Crosby, add Jack Hughes.

1. McDavid
2. Matthews
3. Mackinnon
4. Crosby
5. Draisaitl
6. Barkov
7. Bergeron

After that, it's all up in the air. I'd probably put Stamkos 8th, Brayden Point 9th.