Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Beacon, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    Based on this last page of discussion it's unclear who this is directed to. If it's me then you just built a monument to strawmen. I'm assuming it's gt be to someone else.

    To your 20 M point. I get it. I don't disagree, if you feel that emotionally attached that you're ok with overpaying him that much then I get it. He'd still be overpaid. Maybe there's a good reason in your mind to cripple the team cap wise and to overpay him considering what he's done, carrying the franchise. But he'd still be overpaid. That's all I'm saying. He's slightly overpaid and will likely be more overpaid as his play could drop.
     
  2. Chimp

    Chimp Registered User

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    The point is, at this stage of his career, what he's still doing on the ice, it's not exactly a primary concern for this franchise what Hank is paid or not. You are *****ing about an overpayment for the only player who is worth an overpayment, for the last 30 years of this franchise. That is the perspective I'm trying to understand. So he's overpaid at the end of his career. What a rejoice compared to the other 40 "franchise" schmucks who weren't even worth their initial payment, for eternity. ****ing hallelujah there was actually a player that performed! And this is your focal point of the progress and future of this franchise? Ok. It's pretty weird, if you ask me. It's not emotional, it's logical perspective. Is Lundqvist and his contract the reason why this franchise couldn't succeed? So what are we even discussing here? That he at his overpaid contract is ruining the tank?
     
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  3. haohmaru

    haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    You're not overpaid if you being paid "market value". You pay what the market bears and that's what the player is "worth". In Lundqvist's case, you can make the argument that he would've gotten MORE on the open market that what the Rangers ended up paying him, in which case he's actually making less than he would have if he jumped ship.

    And let's not be so simple to just base "OMG HE'S OVERPAID!! HIS GAA IS ____ " or "HIS SAVE % IS ___"

    There's a lot more to it than that. He's got a **** team in front of him. Especially now. Easily the worst team since he's been a starter.

    There's merchandising to consider - Lundqvist is always in the top 10 jersey sales of all NHL players. Think the Rangers don't get a cut of that?

    He's the face of the team. The guy in the TV commercials. The guy doing the interviews. The guy being called to the carpet to answer the tough questions. The guy without the "C" that 's the guy who's really the "C". One of the greatest Rangers of all time. Instant HOF'er. Instant 30 to the rafters guy. A model citizen to fans and their kids.

    All of this stuff has value, including $ value. Look beyond the stats. This shouldn't even have to be said.

    Lundqvist isn't ****ing Brad Richards. Jesus.
     
  4. nevesis

    nevesis #30 Sponsor

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    Some amazing stats here regarding Hank's recent workload and how it relates to the rest of his career.

     
  5. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    . "you're not overpaid if you're paid market value". I think you're purposely ignoring the obvious answer here.

    Of course there's a strawman about GAA in your response. Why wouldn't there be an utterly dishonest strawman in there?

    " Lundqvist is not Brad Richards" THATS what you took away? Holy ****. Just wow.

    Hes overpaid imo. Im also ok w overpaying him for a variety of reasons including things you mentioned. Still overpaid though. Dont like it? Too bad. I explained my rationale. You utterly failed to understand or respond to most of what i said.
     
  6. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    Youre *****ing bc you can't handle that i said he's overpaid. I pretty clearly said im ok w him being overpaid. Wish he wasn't. It annoys me SLIGHTLY on occassion he didnt take a little less considering his likely drop off in play from the ages of 35-40. But im overall fine w him being overpaid a little. That's *****ing? Nah. It's not. You just need to learn to deal w differing opinions. Well u dont NEED to. You can keep ranting bc you hate hearing that lundqvist is overpaid.
     
  7. Irishguy42

    Irishguy42 Registered User Sponsor

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    Do people not realize that you can't change AAV mid contract? He was not overpaid at all during the start of the deal, which is all that matters. He earned a contract this big. GMs almost always know that the player isn't going to be "worth the AAV" of the deal when they hit the final few years.

    If you actually look at the salary structure, you'll see that he's been getting a salary reduction every year of the deal (minus the first year, which was $8M in signing bonuses + $3M salary). It's not like he's making $8.5M a year lol.
     
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  8. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    If he was making 6.5 aav to start and 6.5 now and 6.5 in the future id say its a perfect, sweetheart of a deal. He's not and as a result I'm not. He's overpaid over the life of his contract
     
  9. nevesis

    nevesis #30 Sponsor

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    Imagine you're Henrik Lundqvist, and you just spent the first 8 years of your career giving blood, sweat and tears to the organization and helping them get to multiple deep rounds of the playoffs, winning a Vezina, and beginning to set all time Rangers goalie records, and some NHL records, you're a star NHL goaltender, face of the franchise and one of the most marketable assets for the NHL.

    You get to the negotiating table with your agent, and you sit there and say...

    "You know, I really should take less money because I most likely will have a drop in play 6-8 years from now."

    "Forget what I did before, and forget what I will continue to do for the next 4-5 years. Let's just focus on what most likely will happen in the last remaining years of this contract."

    I mean, cmon man...
     
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  10. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    Imagine being paid handsomely your entire career, being one of the top paid goalies in the world pretty much every year you played in the league and then getting overpaid the last few years of it. No wait, don't imagine it bc its happening now. For the thousandth time. I get WHY you are ok w him being overpaid but he IS overpaid. Now...and likely moreso going forward.
     
  11. haohmaru

    haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    Here we go with the strawman crap again. You think he's overpaid? That's fine and you're entitled to your opinion. I think you're completely off your rocker with that and that's my opinion and I'm equally entitled to that as well. Not going to back and forth for 20 pages again about opinions. You rationale is garbage. That's my opinion. Carry on.
     
  12. Mikos87

    Mikos87 Registered User

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  13. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    Funny that's what i said when YOU used a strawman. Maybe learn to have an honest discussion without using fallacies. You have no argument and you know I'm right so you resort to simply calling my argument "garbage" and publicly announce you're leaving the discussion instead of just, yknow... not coming back to the discussion. Thanks for trying though!
     
  14. Dactyl

    Dactyl Registered User

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    It’s not like we were going to put the 2 million we could’ve saved by playing hardball with Hank to good use. Like seriously what were we going to do with that? Not buyout Girardi?
     
  15. Overcast

    Overcast Registered User

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    > "learn how to have a discussion"
    > "YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT, AGREE WITH ME!!!!"

    If there was a player across the last 25 years that has been Rangers property that I would overpay for, it would be Hank. He's dragged this team kicking and screaming through hellfire year in, year out. He's earned every cent he gets from this organization.
     
  16. East Coast Bias

    East Coast Bias Registered User

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    Instead of signging Grabner, we could have put that extra 2m into a higher cap wing. Like a Hagelin, Belesky, Joel Ward, Jamie McGinn.

    Game changer tbh
     
  17. Siddi

    Siddi Rangers Masochist

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    I dont think you know what the definition of overpayment means. Do you even realise how insane it is for him to sniff at his career average sv% while playing behind a team full of AHL players?

    I would argue that he is underpayed for what is expected of him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  18. nyrage

    nyrage Registered User

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    There has been a lot of chatter over the past couple of days about Vasilevsky and Holtby suffering from workload fatigue. That should make everyone appreciate Lundqvist even more. He's a lot older and has been doing it for many more years. A competitor like no other.

    Not only is Henrik the best Rangers goalie of all time, but he's one of the best of all time. Our only regret is if he never wins a Cup with us, but it doesn't take away from all of his great accomplishments.
     
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  19. TGWL

    TGWL Registered User

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    I'd be curious as who they asked. There's a lot of new players in the league, who haven't played against Lundqvist for 10 or so years. If a large percent of the players asked were young players, I can see the list being "Players they grew up watching, and price"

    Who were the other 4 goalies? Roy, Hasek, Brodeur?
     
  20. East Coast Bias

    East Coast Bias Registered User

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    Yes + Ken Dryden.

    They did have a question on current - who is the toughest goalie to score on?

    1- Price, 2- Quick, 3-Rinne, 4-Bob, 5-Holtby

    Here's the link

    NHLPA Player Poll 2017-18
     
  21. TGWL

    TGWL Registered User

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    Yeah, I saw that one and i figured how much different would it be depending on which players age bracket they asked.
     
  22. haohmaru

    haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    I don't think you know what a strawman is. I didn't say that YOU said you were basing your opinion on GAA or other stats. I said "Let's not base our opinions..." LET US is clearly not referring to YOU or what you've said. As a matter of fact, after scrolling back a few pages, I don't see any substantive compelling argument made by you as to why you think Lundqvist is "overpaid" statistically or otherwise. It's simply your opinion and I completely disagree with it. Period. I've made my case as to why he deserved to be paid. Go back and read it.
     
  23. kovazub94

    kovazub94 Enigmatic Sponsor

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    Not to take away from your back and forth but for offtopick - I think many people here assign different meaning to the term "strawman". As far as I'm aware "strawman" is something that you start to build-on from.
     
  24. haohmaru

    haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    Strawman is arguing against a point that your "opponent" didn't make. When I said "let us" it clearly wasn't referring to anything that he said. It was a general statement pointing out that that seems to be fuel (despite the fact that Lundqvist might be the most statistically consistent goalie of all time) for the "overpaid" argument - particularly if other goalies are being paid less and have better stats.
     
  25. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    And you said it in your response to me using "..." . Either a strawman where you put words in my mouth and argued against it or you did a terrible job communicating.

    In your opinion of course what i said wasnt compelling. Nothing would be. I gave more than enough reasoning but your bias is never going to let you see that. Also no **** it's an opinion. I said it was a fact? No.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018

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