Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist part IV

[Megustaelhockey]

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[Irishguy42]

Hank's hairline sucks. Doesn't look as good as the rest of him.

 

[nevesis]

 

[Trxjw]

A good save percentage in 11 of 20 games doesn't mean he isn't letting in some pretty bad goals. He's also having issues keeping his balance, and looks to be having problems tracking the puck and keeping his body square to it.

Like I said a few days ago, it's too early to go all chicken little on Lundqvist, but there are some concerning aspects to his game right now.

 

[nevesis]

A good save percentage in 11 of 20 games doesn't mean he isn't letting in some pretty bad goals. He's also having issues keeping his balance, and looks to be having problems tracking the puck and keeping his body square to it.

Like I said a few days ago, it's too early to go all chicken little on Lundqvist, but there are some concerning aspects to his game right now.

The eye test is extremely flawed unless you're a professional goalie coach and studying/watching tape of his performances at scale.

This goes for most everyone just casually watching games. Thing's aren't always as they seem upon first viewing.

Also this:

 

[Irishguy42]

Again, you're selectively leaving out the obvious. HDSV% doesn't absolve all problems.

Also, Hanks actual "Top 10 HDSV%" is not even in the Top 10. He's #11.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Okay, so here's a valid question for the people who defend Lundqvist. Which D-group + goalie would be better?

Current ($29,875m):

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Klein
Skjei-Holden

Lundqvist

Alternative ($27.9m):

McDonagh-Stralman
Skjei-Holden
Staal-Girardi

Talbot

That is assuming Stralman signs here for 5m.

Sure, Girardi and Staal are bad contracts to have, but I still feel Lundqvist is just not worth the extra millions if, according to nevesis, he can't save those high danger shots. The money would be better spent on D-men who can take away those high danger shots

 

[nevesis]

Again, you're selectively leaving out the obvious. HDSV% doesn't absolve all problems.

This though.

 

[Trxjw]

The eye test is extremely flawed unless you're a professional goalie coach and studying/watching tape of his performances at scale.

This goes for most everyone just casually watching games. Thing's aren't always as they seem upon first viewing.

Also this:

And here we go.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

"I don't like him because he's prettier than me/richer than me/has a hotter wife than me" is kind of all I hear when I see really unhinged emotional reactions to pockets of subpar play from Lundqvist.

People continue to forget just how bad and totally irrelevant this team was before he came up. Yes, HL needs to be better, but some people are letting jealousy do them in.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Okay, so here's a valid question for the people who defend Lundqvist. Which D-group + goalie would be better?

Current ($29,875m):


Alternative ($27.9m):


That is assuming Stralman signs here for 5m.

Sure, Girardi and Staal are bad contracts to have, but I still feel Lundqvist is just not worth the extra millions if, according to nevesis, he can't save those high danger shots. The money would be better spent on D-men who can take away those high danger shots

I don't think replacing Klein with Stralman is enough to offset Talbot for Hank. Cam is a great goalie, but I'd much rather have the first group.

 

[nevesis]

And here we go.

That wasn't meant as a dig, but it's true. The eye-test is flawed for a casual person watching the game at home.

Data and or heavy breakdown & review of video is much more reliable to assess what is truly going on in someones game.

Fans are reactive, but rarely have quality answers to issues plaguing a goaltender unless they are professionally studying all relevant information.

 

[silverfish]

And here we go.

I like nev a lot, because he only really trusts advanced stats for goalies, which thus far, are the worst advanced stats we have

Okay, so here's a valid question for the people who defend Lundqvist. Which D-group + goalie would be better?

Current ($29,875m):


Alternative ($27.9m):


That is assuming Stralman signs here for 5m.

Sure, Girardi and Staal are bad contracts to have, but I still feel Lundqvist is just not worth the extra millions if, according to nevesis, he can't save those high danger shots. The money would be better spent on D-men who can take away those high danger shots

I don't understand how Lundqvist is the reason we don't have Stralman right now.

 

[Irishguy42]

This though.

I know. But what I'm saying is that just talking about HDSV% like it absolves any of the issues he's had thus far this season is...not good. Need to take everything into context.

 

[Ori]

Sit, or not sit?
I feel we go through this debate every year even when Talbot was here.
I swear it`s dejaVU!

 

[Trxjw]

That wasn't meant as a dig, but it's true. The eye-test is flawed for a casual person watching the game at home.

Data and or heavy breakdown & review of video is much more reliable to assess what is truly going on in someones game.

Fans are reactive, but rarely have quality answers to issues plaguing a goaltender unless they are professionally studying all relevant information.

Great. Except nothing you've posted actually debunks the things I've said. You're just dismissing them because you don't have a stat other than save percentage to fall back on. You've decided that I need to be a professional goalie coach or my opinion is invalid.

 

[nevesis]

Sit, or not sit?
I feel we go through this debate every year even when Talbot was here.
I swear it`s dejaVU!

Every. Single. Year.

We all know he can be statistically better, and has plenty of time to get his numbers closer to his career average as he always does.

 

[nevesis]

Great. Except nothing you've posted actually debunks the things I've said. You're just dismissing them because you don't have a stat other than save percentage to fall back on. You've decided that I need to be a professional goalie coach or my opinion is invalid.

We aren't discussing opinions, we're discussing facts based on video/analytical evidence, and yes a professional goalie coach will be able to do this better than a casual Joe Blow fan sitting on a recliner in his basement.

 

[Crease]

Nev, put aside for the moment the posters calling for Lundqvist to retire, be traded, or benched.

Would you admit Lundqvist is not playing to his potential right now, to the extent that is within his control?

 

[Kaapodonna]

Do not like him. Not enough shutouts, and does not bring enough toughness. When was the last time he threw a bomb hit?!?!?

 

[Trxjw]

We aren't discussing opinions, we're discussing facts based on video/analytical evidence, and yes a professional goalie coach will be able to do this better than a casual Joe Blow fan sitting on a recliner in his basement.

And again, none of these facts disprove the comments I've made about his technique. Just because I don't have a stat to throw at you, it doesn't mean his balance on 2nd and 3rd attempts is off. Nor does it mean that he isn't slower in getting square to the shooter.

In fact, you posted it yourself. "Hank has given up low/med danger goals with more frequency" which means he's giving up goals on shots from distance and other low-scoring areas. That's not a good thing, regardless of whether or not his high-danger SV% is good.

I've already said this is all probably nothing to get up in arms about and it's probably just minor bump in the road, but his play is certainly not above criticism and sooner or later he is going to hit a decline. It's inevitable and this is going to be a regular thing until he can demonstrate to people that his recent play is nothing more than a hiccup.

 

[nyrleetch]

Nev, put aside for the moment the posters calling for Lundqvist to retire, be traded, or benched.

Would you admit Lundqvist is not playing to his potential right now, to the extent that is within his control?

I consider myself a Lundqvist homer, and I would agree to that he can be better.

 

[nevesis]

Nev, put aside for the moment the posters calling for Lundqvist to retire, be traded, or benched.

Would you admit Lundqvist is not playing to his potential right now, to the extent that is within his control?

He's had 11 games where he has played very well, a few games where he has been at fault for a few bad goals, and the remaining have been a mixture of poor overall team play/poor defense/turnovers, etc.

Remember, straight up save percentage is a team statistic. Team play reflects highly in those traditional statistics. (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/in-the-nhl-save-percentage-is-a-team-stat/), which is why AdjSv% is better for evaluating goaltenders over time. (http://ingoalmag.com/analysis/an-introduction-to-adjusted-save-percentage/)

A goaltender can't control what types of shots he faces, how those shots come in (deflected at the last second or otherwise, screens, etc. A lot of what happened last night wasn't the result of bad technique, but bad bounces, screens, and puck luck for the Islanders.

To the naked eye, a casual fan sees this and it looks like Henrik is just flat out terrible, but they don't break down plays for a living nor understand the game from the level a professional goalie/coach like Allaire, or Valiquette can. This is why you hear people like Vally and other professionals in the league not overall concerned with Hank's game right now because they know a lot of what they have seen is out of his control.

Vally said it last night during the post-game, until Hank is giving up clear sighted shots from low percentage scoring areas of the ice, he won't be worried. He hasn't done this in any majority form so far, so there is no reason to worry. I've seen the same and agree.

I believe in his ability and technique and historically I know he has another gear he can dial into. His entire game is based on reading plays, not just being big and relying on size. When his reads are clean, he makes saves, when they aren't chaos can ensue and pucks can end in the back of the net.

Vally is doing some interesting commentary on twitter this morning, he's worth a follow and a very knowledgeable guy. He has loads of data he tracks (he runs a goalie school and analytics business on the side)

 

[TheTakedown]

Vally is also paid to blow a **** ton of smoke up Hank's ass.

I agree Hank looks good, not elite but good. The defense is absolutely in shambles right now because everything good happening on the LHD is completely destroyed by everything on the RHD

 

[Irishguy42]

Dude hasn't even scored a goal this year. He has what...2 assists? $8.5M for that?

**** off with that contract, Slats.