Heatley and Bertuzzi Represent Canada?

[RTWAP*]

Since this topic infected the Bertuzzi thread, let's move it here and continue the discussion.

I don't have a problem with Heatley representing my country but I don't want Bertuzzi on the team. Lots of people have suggested that is inconsistent, and I can see why they think that so I'll explain why I don't think their individual circumstances are the same.

Heatley drove faster than we should have for the conditions, a pretty common mistake for young and old. He was unlucky enough have his serious misjudgement cost his friend's life. There, but for the grace of God, go I ... and lots of other folks.

Bertuzzi attacked a much smaller guy from behind, knocked him out and drove him to the ice face first. In life, as in hockey, size can be a powerful advantage. I'm a big guy myself (bigger than Bert anyway) and I am aware of the fact that with size and strength comes additional responsibility. Lots of people who feel the same probably don't want Bertuzzi representing Canada.

This was discussed all day on sports radio in Ottawa and a few people gave Bertuzzi's 'mild' punishment by the league as a factor in their disagreement, but I don't feel that way. If I was a Nucks fan I would be cheering Bert like crazy, and as a hockey fan I'm happy he seems to have turned his game around. I wish him all the success he can find. But I don't want him representing Canada.

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[joe_shannon_1983*]

I understand all of the complaints about Bertuzzi being on the team. I really do.

But isn't the goal to win the Gold Medal? Isn't that the goal?

Team Canada is not trying to win a citizenship award or a humanitarian award. They are trying to win a hockey Gold Medal.

And Bertuzzi helps them accomplish that, thus he deserves to be on the team.

Bertuzzi isn't exactly the classiest or most respectable player in the NHL. But he is one of the best players in the NHL. And for that, he should be on a team wanting to win a Gold Medal.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I understand all of the complaints about Bertuzzi being on the team. I really do.

But isn't the goal to win the Gold Medal? Isn't that the goal?

Team Canada is not trying to win a citizenship award or a humanitarian award. They are trying to win a hockey Gold Medal.

And Bertuzzi helps them accomplish that, thus he deserves to be on the team.

Bertuzzi isn't exactly the classiest or most respectable player in the NHL. But he is one of the best players in the NHL. And for that, he should be on a team wanting to win a Gold Medal.

I agree. I don't buy the "role model" garbage for a second. There are probably a dozen players in the Olympics that have done really bad things that you wouldn't want your children to mimic. Bertuzzi made a horrible mistake and ruined a players career. Heatley made a horrible mistake that ended a players life. Both players deserve a second chance. It's in the past. Forgive and forget. Let's move on. I'm glad they are on Team Canada because they make Team Canada a better team.

Unless you believe that Bertuzzi is a threat to intentionally injure a player during the Olympics, I don't think there's anything to whine about. And he's not.

Addendum: I should add that I think there ARE some legitimate reasons to not put Bert on the team though, I just don't think the Steve-Moore-incident is one of them.

 

[AvsGuy]

If Bertuzzi plays half as well as he did against Detroit in the first round of the playoffs a few years ago, then he can be on Team Canada any day of the week, in my opinion.

no single player represents Canada or this country's values. If Todd Bertuzzi better our chances, which I think he will, then I'm all for it.

 

[Resolute]

Your argument explains why Bertuzzi does not belong on this team: He has not been an elite player for 2 1/2 years now. He has not earned a spot on this team.

Heatley has been an elite player, and unlike Bertuzzi, has significant international experience. He has earned a spot on the team.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Your argument explains why Bertuzzi does not belong on this team: He has not been an elite player for 2 1/2 years now. He has not earned a spot on this team.

Heatley has been an elite player, and unlike Bertuzzi, has significant international experience. He has earned a spot on the team.

2 and a half years? 2 years ago Bertuzzi had 100 points and was a first team all-star. This year he's at a point per game.

 

[fender_bender]

Anybody who thinks Bertuzzi is not an elite player should have watched tonights Calgary/Vancouver game. If he can play for team Canada like he did tonight for the Canucks (which I think he will) then he will be a huge factor in their success at the olympics.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Bertuzzi has been seriously kicking *** for the past two weeks or so.

Maybe those trade rumours were just what he needed.

 

[bhj]

Your argument explains why Bertuzzi does not belong on this team: He has not been an elite player for 2 1/2 years now. He has not earned a spot on this team.

Heatley has been an elite player, and unlike Bertuzzi, has significant international experience. He has earned a spot on the team.

I think you watched the Flames game tonight.. enoguh said.. 3 assist..

 

[Jazz]

Your argument explains why Bertuzzi does not belong on this team: He has not been an elite player for 2 1/2 years now. He has not earned a spot on this team.

Heatley has been an elite player, and unlike Bertuzzi, has significant international experience. He has earned a spot on the team.

Yet he has more points than Iginla...

 

[THE SOVIET*]

Jesus **** just get over Todd Bertuzzi.

Why dont we look back at your life and see what slip ups you've made?

 

[Youreallygotme]

Jesus **** just get over Todd Bertuzzi.

Why dont we look back at your life and see what slip ups you've made?

because it's easier to look at the slip up he made. I dont get it either man, but its pointless to argue. It's ilke people feel better about the mistakes theyve made by looking at the bert mistake and saying "oh I'm an angel".

Bertuzzi hates what he did. Everybody does. The other things he has done have gotten him on this team. I think people should get over it. I honestly wonder if people will STILL be talking about it ten years later, because they still need to feel good about themselves somehow.


BTW Bertuzzi was awesome tonight. He is playing at %100 percent right now, youd think the canucks would have some more success

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Yet he has more points than Iginla...

But Jerome has more heart, everyone knows that! And don't forget that Bertuzzi plays with a god in Naslund, thats the only reason he racks up so many points over the years!

 

[rye&ginger]

Bertuzzi has shown he is an elite player THIS YEAR...on national TV....this week...open your eyes. This guy is back in shape and doing what he was doing when he was ,and now is, as a dominant forward. Calgary had no answer for him, despite having a lauded defense. Show me a Olympic team that might have a chance at stopping his play of the past 6 weeks.


Yes, 6 weeks. He has been on fire since then. Over a point a game with half of those being goals.

I ask you who disagree, who could better Bertuzzi in his role on the Canadian team. Dont just say he doesnt deserve it, because the best hockey minds in Canada think he does so you have to convince them he doesnt, and not me.

 

[The Produce Man]

Since this topic infected the Bertuzzi thread, let's move it here and continue the discussion.

I don't have a problem with Heatley representing my country but I don't want Bertuzzi on the team. Lots of people have suggested that is inconsistent, and I can see why they think that so I'll explain why I don't think their individual circumstances are the same.

Heatley drove faster than we should have for the conditions, a pretty common mistake for young and old. He was unlucky enough have his serious misjudgement cost his friend's life. There, but for the grace of God, go I ... and lots of other folks.

Bertuzzi attacked a much smaller guy from behind, knocked him out and drove him to the ice face first. In life, as in hockey, size can be a powerful advantage. I'm a big guy myself (bigger than Bert anyway) and I am aware of the fact that with size and strength comes additional responsibility. Lots of people who feel the same probably don't want Bertuzzi representing Canada.

This was discussed all day on sports radio in Ottawa and a few people gave Bertuzzi's 'mild' punishment by the league as a factor in their disagreement, but I don't feel that way. If I was a Nucks fan I would be cheering Bert like crazy, and as a hockey fan I'm happy he seems to have turned his game around. I wish him all the success he can find. But I don't want him representing Canada.

You're also undoubtedly a Senators fan, thus you forgive Heatley much easier as most Canuck fans have for Todd.

 

[Shane]

I don't have a problem with Heatley representing my country but I don't want Bertuzzi on the team. Lots of people have suggested that is inconsistent, and I can see why they think that so I'll explain why I don't think their individual circumstances are the same.

No, it wasn't a "mistake". A mistake is going 5, 10, heck, even 20 km/h over the speed limit. Heatley was doing approximately 74 km/h over the posted limit. More than double the posted limit. It wasn't a mistake. It was reckless, stupid, illegal, and ultimately fatal.

 

[RTWAP*]

No, it wasn't a "mistake". A mistake is going 5, 10, heck, even 20 km/h over the speed limit. Heatley was doing approximately 74 km/h over the posted limit. More than double the posted limit. It wasn't a mistake. It was reckless, stupid, illegal, and ultimately fatal.

Heatley was doing somewhere between 88km/h and 131km/h, according to the accident reconstruction experts. The limit was 56km/h. So while he may have been going 75km/h over the limit, he also may have been going 32km/h over the limit. The judge noted the range as a factor in his sentencing.

What percentage of the population has exceeded the speed limit by 32km/h? What percentage of 22-year-old men if given a Ferrari would exceed the limit by that amount? Heatley didn't just make a serious mistake, he also got incredibly unlucky for his actions to generate the outcome they did. The bad luck doesn't change his responsibility for the outcome but it does affect my opinion of Dany Heatley as a person.

You're also undoubtedly a Senators fan, thus you forgive Heatley much easier as most Canuck fans have for Todd.

I forgave Todd. He's started playing again, and doing well. I'm happy for him. I make a big distinction between a professional hockey player earning his living doing what he does best, and that same player representing his country. I can't reconcile what he did with what I think a Canadian Olympian should be.

I'm not trying to tell you all that you're wrong, or that Vancouver fans have a different opinion cuz they're Nucks fans. Gretzky isn't a Nucks fan. I'm just expressing my opinion.

BTW, yes, I am a Sens fan but that isn't relevant, expect insofar as I have bothered to look up the details of Heatley's situation and put a fair bit of thought and discussion into his crime.

EDIT: And if Bert was traded to Ottawa in a fair trade, I'd be happy. I'm not a Bert hater. He a great player and based purely on his talent he deserves to be on the Olympic team. But ...

 

[espo*]

Everyone makes mistakes in life,he's no different.When does it all end with the guy anyway? there does have to be some end i think.Todd willl go a long way with me representing his country well.......................that's all i'm asking.

 

[Brad*]

I think it's pointless to hold a grudge, which is clearly what this is. Yes, Todd Bertuzzi made a big mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. Not one of us here will go through life without screwing up a few times a long the way. Maybe your error won't be seen on national TV by millions, and maybe mistake won't have injured another so badly, but no one is perfect. To hold this against Todd - when it is clear the end result was not his intent - is neither fair nor productive.

It's the end result which decides the severity. If Steve Moore had not been hurt, we wouldn't even be talking about this. Todd Bertuzzi did not step on the ice that night thinking to himself, "I wanna break this guys neck." He wanted to get back at Moore for a prior incident by roughing him up, and it went too far. There is a fine line between a vicious hockey "attack" like the incident has been called, and simple "dirty play." As I said, if Moore is not hurt, we talk about Bertuzzi getting too rough, and whether or not he should be suspended for a game or two. I can't sit here and hate, dislike, or be bitter toward Bertuzzi because of what happened. I know that what he did was a boneheaded thing to do, but he didn't set out that night to end Steven Moore's career, and I don't believe we should punish him as if he did.

 

[Milpool]

But Jerome has more heart, everyone knows that! And don't forget that Bertuzzi plays with a god in Naslund, thats the only reason he racks up so many points over the years!

What does Iginla have to do with any of this?

And regarding Naslund - That IS the reason Bertuzzi racks up as many points as he does. Look at Mike Knuble in Philly. You think he wasn't made a better player by playing alongside Forsberg & Gagne? Or Joe Thornton last year? That's the type of quality Naslund has. He makes players around him better.

I'm not knocking Bertuzzi's talent, though. He has been the Canucks' best player over the past couple of weeks, without a doubt. Bottom line is he's not the superhero his followers make him out to be, but he's not the antichrist his detractors make him out to be either. He's a very good hockey player who also happens to be somewhat of a headcase. I'm not jumping for joy about him being on the team, but Theo Fleury made the '02 team and he had plenty of issues of his own. Things worked out pretty decent there.

 

[Lindros_for_rizzle_]

Don´t blame Bertuzzi too much. Moore was wearing a helmet, wasn´t he? Bertuzzi was hitting him with his gloves on, wasn´t he? If it´s not easy for Heatley to judge the speed he was driving at it wasn´t easy for Bertuzzi to predict that a punch with the gloves would make such an impact, I know I wouldnt. And lets not forget that Heatley killed. Bertuzzi did not.

 

[Milpool]

Don´t blame Bertuzzi too much. Moore was wearing a helmet, wasn´t he? Bertuzzi was hitting him with his gloves on, wasn´t he? If it´s not easy for Heatley to judge the speed he was driving at it wasn´t easy for Bertuzzi to predict that a punch with the gloves would make such an impact, I know I wouldnt. And lets not forget that Heatley killed. Bertuzzi did not.

You're missing out on the most important thing - Heatley never intended for anything to happen - he made a stupid mistake. 23 year old kids do that. Bertuzzi obviously never intended to break Moore's neck, but he did intend to hurt him. Bertuzzi's not the first to suckerpunch someone on the ice, and he's not the last, but most of those punches aren't thrown with warm and fuzzy intentions.

 

[espo*]

Listen Canada fans, don't feel guilty about SFA.The only thing to be concerned about is if the players play well for us..................that's it!!! nothing else.......everyone has their Todd Bertuzzi moment and that's a fact.It's over and we back him now............................we're solid that way,we back our guys in hockey,this discussion should be closed.

 

[habitue*]

Don´t blame Bertuzzi too much. Moore was wearing a helmet, wasn´t he? Bertuzzi was hitting him with his gloves on, wasn´t he? If it´s not easy for Heatley to judge the speed he was driving at it wasn´t easy for Bertuzzi to predict that a punch with the gloves would make such an impact, I know I wouldnt. And lets not forget that Heatley killed. Bertuzzi did not.

 

[Hart_House_Ca]

Todd bertuzzi should be punished for life. We should follow him from rink to rink to remind him of what he did, i'm sure he's already forgotten. Some of you need to forgive and forget. Nobody deserves this much punishment. He was suspended, he was sorry, he asked for forgiveness, and he was sincere in all that. forgive and forget ... please.