Has there ever been so many Jewish NHL players of this caliber?

[Crosby2010]

Rod Carew actually isn’t Jewish.

Looks like you're right. I blame Adam Sandler for that.

 

[HFBS]

Since you mentioned a Schneider, is current Braden Schneider an MOT? And is it safe to assume that he and Mathieu are not related?

No, Braden Schneider is not Jewish. When he came to the Rangers I looked it up.

The only current player I knew was Jewish before this thread was Adam Fox, and that was only because his fiance is the granddaughter of someone that I know.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Jewishness is not tied to religion, hence the existence of millions of completely irreligious Jews. It's also an ethnic identity. Larry David is a famous example of an openly atheistic Jew.

This is what I'm confused about, because someone even in this thread mentioned this is contentious even within the Jewish community, so obviously it's a bit of a complex subject. But this I understand more to some degree if this is how it's viewed amongst the majority

Tribalism. We pretend and act as though we've "evolved" past that point but it's still there in plain view. You can't escape 'yourself'.

Yes, agree and understand, that's why I was curious about what it means from a Jewish perspective

There are a lot of places in North America where you can live and never interact with a Jewish person, so it's possible that people get all of their knowledge from stereotypes or through the internet. And there's a stereotype of Jewish people as being unathletic (in addition to lots of other insane nonsense). But that falls apart quickly with just a little bit of information, and I think any information that humanizes people is worth sharing.

This is the kind of thing I was looking for, makes more sense why Jewish people would feel more of a sense of pride towards athletes perhaps more than the 'stereotypical' famous/successful Jews. Thanks

Your avatar is a Colorado Avalanche player holding the Stanley Cup over his head in triumph because his team beat another team. We all root for different teams, which means that we identify with them to some extent (fans wear their team's jersey, and some even paint their faces). And periodically there are international competitions where teams are formed based on nationality (World Cup, Olympics). Would we all still watch sports if a bunch of guys got together in a stadium and chose up sides right before the game started and wore generic different-color jerseys? "Go Red Team!!!"

Anyway, one can bemoan that people identify with a specific group and/or are proud of their accomplishments, but the general mentality of identifying is kind of the basis of being a sports fan, no?

Actually my avatar is more of an homage to EJ . In general, I root more for individual players these days, I just have followed the Avs since I was young and yes it makes the sport more fun when you choose a side - but I understand what you're saying, just the tribalism thing in a different sense

It isn't, really, just a bit of trivia. You could also apply the bolded to anything on this site, though, so why single out this thread?

I don't think you could really apply it to any other thread - most threads in here are related to hockey or hockey-related accomplishments. I explained why I thought it was more relevant to other ethnic groups than Jewish folks from my perspective. Not singling anything out, just searching for clarification

It’s not uncommon for of Something/American decent, if that “something” is more rare, often know if a famous is Lithuanian, Polish, Arminian, Egyptian, etc

And the bigger immigrant groups, like the Irish and Italians, celebrate their heritage with holidays/Parades (Columbus Day, St Patrick’s Day) and talk about all the time.

And to turn to religion, which celebrities who are/or were raised Evangelical, Mormon, Muslim etc gets discussed too. It’s not just a Jewish thing.

There haven’t been a lot of Jewish sports stars, there’s a joke about it in 1980’s



So having one Norris Trophy winner, and potentially more individual award winning stars, is a notable trend. You personally not caring about this doesn’t make it less notable to others.

Yep this makes sense, I guess I just didn't grow up with that kind of context. Canada is more of the melting pot than the U.S. and one of my criticisms of the U.S. is being entrenched in certain ideologies and seeing many people/groups as the 'other' which usually comes with fear. Canada certainly isn't perfect and a lot of the same thing still exists, but I feel like it's more pronounced in the States. Also when it comes to nationality it makes a little more sense to me - and if Jewish people see themselves more as a nationality then I understand it more.

And I get the second part too of people celebrating religions I guess I just don't hear about it much in hockey - more likely a nationality is mentioned. If this was about 'Israeli' people it would have computed more logically in my head

I think it is the same with any minority that has overcome to accomplish something special. Especially in a domaine that is not common for them. We saw the same with Kadri after winning the cup, Subban winning the Norris, Anders Lee becoming captain, etc.

Canadians do this all the time with fellow Canadians go became famous actors, musicians, even Jonas Salk lol

To the point above, when Kadri is celebrated I'm not sure it's about him being Sikh (is he even Sikh? - the fact I'm unsure illustrate my point) but moreso he is of Lebanese descent and like Subban a person of colour which like I mentioned in my original post provides more of a story for the progress of hockey/the game, which I don't necessarily see in the same way applying to Jewish people, but i suppose if Jewish people view themselves as their own race I can understand more of the tribalism involved. Race is usually just something determined by the eye, and where it's problematic roots stem. Obviously Jewish people have some specific physical characteristics but overall I'm guessing they'd fall under the 'white' category and don't face the same kind of objective discrimination


Anyways, thank you for the replies. This definitely has provided clarity and deepened my understanding of the Jewish experience

 

[teal]

This is what I'm confused about, because someone even in this thread mentioned this is contentious even within the Jewish community, so obviously it's a bit of a complex subject. But this I understand more to some degree if this is how it's viewed amongst the majority


Yes, agree and understand, that's why I was curious about what it means from a Jewish perspective


This is the kind of thing I was looking for, makes more sense why Jewish people would feel more of a sense of pride towards athletes perhaps more than the 'stereotypical' famous/successful Jews. Thanks


Actually my avatar is more of an homage to EJ . In general, I root more for individual players these days, I just have followed the Avs since I was young and yes it makes the sport more fun when you choose a side - but I understand what you're saying, just the tribalism thing in a different sense


I don't think you could really apply it to any other thread - most threads in here are related to hockey or hockey-related accomplishments. I explained why I thought it was more relevant to other ethnic groups than Jewish folks from my perspective. Not singling anything out, just searching for clarification


Yep this makes sense, I guess I just didn't grow up with that kind of context. Canada is more of the melting pot than the U.S. and one of my criticisms of the U.S. is being entrenched in certain ideologies and seeing many people/groups as the 'other' which usually comes with fear. Canada certainly isn't perfect and a lot of the same thing still exists, but I feel like it's more pronounced in the States. Also when it comes to nationality it makes a little more sense to me - and if Jewish people see themselves more as a nationality then I understand it more.

And I get the second part too of people celebrating religions I guess I just don't hear about it much in hockey - more likely a nationality is mentioned. If this was about 'Israeli' people it would have computed more logically in my head

To the point above, when Kadri is celebrated I'm not sure it's about him being Sikh (is he even Sikh? - the fact I'm unsure illustrate my point) but moreso he is of Lebanese descent and like Subban a person of colour which like I mentioned in my original post provides more of a story for the progress of hockey/the game, which I don't necessarily see in the same way applying to Jewish people, but i suppose if Jewish people view themselves as their own race I can understand more of the tribalism involved. Race is usually just something determined by the eye, and where it's problematic roots stem. Obviously Jewish people have some specific physical characteristics but overall I'm guessing they'd fall under the 'white' category and don't face the same kind of objective discrimination


Anyways, thank you for the replies. This definitely has provided clarity and deepened my understanding of the Jewish experience

Have you ever spoken to any Jews in your whole life? This comment makes it sound like a hard no.

 

[BenG]

This is what I'm confused about, because someone even in this thread mentioned this is contentious even within the Jewish community, so obviously it's a bit of a complex subject. But this I understand more to some degree if this is how it's viewed amongst the majority


Yes, agree and understand, that's why I was curious about what it means from a Jewish perspective


This is the kind of thing I was looking for, makes more sense why Jewish people would feel more of a sense of pride towards athletes perhaps more than the 'stereotypical' famous/successful Jews. Thanks


Actually my avatar is more of an homage to EJ . In general, I root more for individual players these days, I just have followed the Avs since I was young and yes it makes the sport more fun when you choose a side - but I understand what you're saying, just the tribalism thing in a different sense


I don't think you could really apply it to any other thread - most threads in here are related to hockey or hockey-related accomplishments. I explained why I thought it was more relevant to other ethnic groups than Jewish folks from my perspective. Not singling anything out, just searching for clarification


Yep this makes sense, I guess I just didn't grow up with that kind of context. Canada is more of the melting pot than the U.S. and one of my criticisms of the U.S. is being entrenched in certain ideologies and seeing many people/groups as the 'other' which usually comes with fear. Canada certainly isn't perfect and a lot of the same thing still exists, but I feel like it's more pronounced in the States. Also when it comes to nationality it makes a little more sense to me - and if Jewish people see themselves more as a nationality then I understand it more.

And I get the second part too of people celebrating religions I guess I just don't hear about it much in hockey - more likely a nationality is mentioned. If this was about 'Israeli' people it would have computed more logically in my head

To the point above, when Kadri is celebrated I'm not sure it's about him being Sikh (is he even Sikh? - the fact I'm unsure illustrate my point) but moreso he is of Lebanese descent and like Subban a person of colour which like I mentioned in my original post provides more of a story for the progress of hockey/the game, which I don't necessarily see in the same way applying to Jewish people, but i suppose if Jewish people view themselves as their own race I can understand more of the tribalism involved. Race is usually just something determined by the eye, and where it's problematic roots stem. Obviously Jewish people have some specific physical characteristics but overall I'm guessing they'd fall under the 'white' category and don't face the same kind of objective discrimination


Anyways, thank you for the replies. This definitely has provided clarity and deepened my understanding of the Jewish experience

Yes. Jews absolutely see themselves as an ethnic group who originate from Judea in lieu of a religion. Many (possibly most) are atheist and/or secular/non-religious. Jews from Judea share a heritage and culture like any other ethnic group including values, history, food, language, etc.

Also, Kadri was celebrated for being Muslim (not Lebanese) which is fine and should be celebrated. It’s a unique accomplishment for a marginalized (in Canada) minority that can inspire others.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/avalanche-nazem-kadri-first-muslim-player-win-stanley-cup

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6563099

Nazem Kadri believed to be first Muslim hockey player to bring Stanley Cup to mosque

When the Colorado Avalanche eliminated the Tampa Bay Lightning this past June, Nazem Kadri became a Stanley Cup champion for the first…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6564417

Back home, Muslim hockey community beaming after Kadri’s historic moment – Sportsnet.ca

I think if you’re not a minority it can be hard to understand why this stuff matters.

 

[Profet]

This is what I'm confused about, because someone even in this thread mentioned this is contentious even within the Jewish community, so obviously it's a bit of a complex subject. But this I understand more to some degree if this is how it's viewed amongst the majority


Yes, agree and understand, that's why I was curious about what it means from a Jewish perspective


This is the kind of thing I was looking for, makes more sense why Jewish people would feel more of a sense of pride towards athletes perhaps more than the 'stereotypical' famous/successful Jews. Thanks


Actually my avatar is more of an homage to EJ . In general, I root more for individual players these days, I just have followed the Avs since I was young and yes it makes the sport more fun when you choose a side - but I understand what you're saying, just the tribalism thing in a different sense


I don't think you could really apply it to any other thread - most threads in here are related to hockey or hockey-related accomplishments. I explained why I thought it was more relevant to other ethnic groups than Jewish folks from my perspective. Not singling anything out, just searching for clarification


Yep this makes sense, I guess I just didn't grow up with that kind of context. Canada is more of the melting pot than the U.S. and one of my criticisms of the U.S. is being entrenched in certain ideologies and seeing many people/groups as the 'other' which usually comes with fear. Canada certainly isn't perfect and a lot of the same thing still exists, but I feel like it's more pronounced in the States. Also when it comes to nationality it makes a little more sense to me - and if Jewish people see themselves more as a nationality then I understand it more.

And I get the second part too of people celebrating religions I guess I just don't hear about it much in hockey - more likely a nationality is mentioned. If this was about 'Israeli' people it would have computed more logically in my head

To the point above, when Kadri is celebrated I'm not sure it's about him being Sikh (is he even Sikh? - the fact I'm unsure illustrate my point) but moreso he is of Lebanese descent and like Subban a person of colour which like I mentioned in my original post provides more of a story for the progress of hockey/the game, which I don't necessarily see in the same way applying to Jewish people, but i suppose if Jewish people view themselves as their own race I can understand more of the tribalism involved. Race is usually just something determined by the eye, and where it's problematic roots stem. Obviously Jewish people have some specific physical characteristics but overall I'm guessing they'd fall under the 'white' category and don't face the same kind of objective discrimination


Anyways, thank you for the replies. This definitely has provided clarity and deepened my understanding of the Jewish experience

Here is the thing... When persecution has happened:

No one asked if you were a practicing Jewish person or if you were an atheist.

No one asked if it was your mother or father who was Jewish.

You were either Jewish, or not.

That shared modern history is part of the Jewish peoples' heritage.

It's beyond a religion. It's a shared history with a shared culture.

Seeing Jewish people succeed in hockey is something that us older Jews never really got to witness.

 

[Rowlet]

This is what I'm confused about, because someone even in this thread mentioned this is contentious even within the Jewish community, so obviously it's a bit of a complex subject. But this I understand more to some degree if this is how it's viewed amongst the majority


Yes, agree and understand, that's why I was curious about what it means from a Jewish perspective


This is the kind of thing I was looking for, makes more sense why Jewish people would feel more of a sense of pride towards athletes perhaps more than the 'stereotypical' famous/successful Jews. Thanks


Actually my avatar is more of an homage to EJ . In general, I root more for individual players these days, I just have followed the Avs since I was young and yes it makes the sport more fun when you choose a side - but I understand what you're saying, just the tribalism thing in a different sense


I don't think you could really apply it to any other thread - most threads in here are related to hockey or hockey-related accomplishments. I explained why I thought it was more relevant to other ethnic groups than Jewish folks from my perspective. Not singling anything out, just searching for clarification


Yep this makes sense, I guess I just didn't grow up with that kind of context. Canada is more of the melting pot than the U.S. and one of my criticisms of the U.S. is being entrenched in certain ideologies and seeing many people/groups as the 'other' which usually comes with fear. Canada certainly isn't perfect and a lot of the same thing still exists, but I feel like it's more pronounced in the States. Also when it comes to nationality it makes a little more sense to me - and if Jewish people see themselves more as a nationality then I understand it more.

And I get the second part too of people celebrating religions I guess I just don't hear about it much in hockey - more likely a nationality is mentioned. If this was about 'Israeli' people it would have computed more logically in my head

To the point above, when Kadri is celebrated I'm not sure it's about him being Sikh (is he even Sikh? - the fact I'm unsure illustrate my point) but moreso he is of Lebanese descent and like Subban a person of colour which like I mentioned in my original post provides more of a story for the progress of hockey/the game, which I don't necessarily see in the same way applying to Jewish people, but i suppose if Jewish people view themselves as their own race I can understand more of the tribalism involved. Race is usually just something determined by the eye, and where it's problematic roots stem. Obviously Jewish people have some specific physical characteristics but overall I'm guessing they'd fall under the 'white' category and don't face the same kind of objective discrimination


Anyways, thank you for the replies. This definitely has provided clarity and deepened my understanding of the Jewish experience

Yeah, this is straight up false, people who seek to do harm to Jewish people don't care if you're non-practicing, they will still hate you because of who your ancestors were.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

Has there ever been this many Jewish NHL players of this calibre (sic, including our friends from across the pond) ?

Adam Fox
Zach Hyman
Jack Hughes
Quinn Hughes
Luke Hughes
Jason Zucker
Jakob Chychrun

I don't think I've ever seen so many top NHL players who are also members of the tribe at one time in the NHL.

Alls I’m saying is… South Florida is a great place to be Jewish, every hockey player on this list.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Yeah, this is straight up false, people who seek to do harm to Jewish people don't care if you're non-practicing, they will still hate you because of who your ancestors were.

Have you ever spoken to any Jews in your whole life? This comment makes it sound like a hard no.

I know Jewish people face persecution/discrimination on the daily.

The comment was more about if you're passing a Jewish person in the street, or serving them at a coffee shop, it isn't obvious someone is Jewish. Hell, I had no idea any of the players on the OP's list were Jewish, it's not something you can tell from afar or even by knowing someone's name. It's not the same for black, middle eastern, etc people. It does add another layer.

People need to stop taking everything as the worst possible meaning, please give at least some benefit of the doubt.

 

[luiginb]

How can you tell someone is Jewish?

In Europe it's quite easy

 

[Freaky Styley]

I think if you’re not a minority it can be hard to understand why this stuff matters.

Yes, fair enough, and fair points on the Kadri situation. Although it's easy to not feel discriminated against when you don't identify with any group and the one you do fit into you probably dislike the most en masse (i.e. white male)

 

[george14]

As a Jew I’m pumped for Foxstein, Hughesberg, and Hymanowitz.

How can you tell someone is Jewish?

It’s an ethnicity so we have certain features. If I had to generalize, we look like “white” Arabs because that’s genetically what most are. Ashkenazi Jews are from the Middle East but migrated to Europe.

For the Jews who are not ethnically Jewish and only religiously Jewish (converted or born to converted parent), you can’t tell.

 

[njdevils1982]

As a Jew I’m pumped for Foxstein, Hughesberg, and Hymanowitz.


It’s an ethnicity so we have certain features. If I had to generalize, we look like “white” Arabs because that’s genetically what most are. Ashkenazi Jews are from the Middle East but migrated to Europe.

For the Jews who are not ethnically Jewish and only religiously Jewish (converted or born to converted parent), you can’t tell.

a classic.

 

[luiginb]

Cool idea for a thread, a lot was learnt. I had a Roma grandfather, who told me stories of an intertwined fate with his Jewish counterparts in one of the darkest moments of European history

 

[JungleBeat]

So do they practice Judaism or?

 

[teal]

I know Jewish people face persecution/discrimination on the daily.

The comment was more about if you're passing a Jewish person in the street, or serving them at a coffee shop, it isn't obvious someone is Jewish. Hell, I had no idea any of the players on the OP's list were Jewish, it's not something you can tell from afar or even by knowing someone's name. It's not the same for black, middle eastern, etc people. It does add another layer.

People need to stop taking everything as the worst possible meaning, please give at least some benefit of the doubt.

I know Jewish people face persecution/discrimination on the daily.

The comment was more about if you're passing a Jewish person in the street, or serving them at a coffee shop, it isn't obvious someone is Jewish. Hell, I had no idea any of the players on the OP's list were Jewish, it's not something you can tell from afar or even by knowing someone's name. It's not the same for black, middle eastern, etc people. It does add another layer.

People need to stop taking everything as the worst possible meaning, please give at least some benefit of the doubt.

It sounds like you’re curious to know more about the day to day experience of being Jewish, so perhaps you should talk to more Jews in real life. I suspect you’d be surprised to hear about what it’s like.

 

[Troy McClure]

So do they practice Judaism or?

Or what?

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

It sounds like you’re curious to know more about the day to day experience of being Jewish, so perhaps you should talk to more Jews in real life. I suspect you’d be surprised to hear about what it’s like.

I think you guys are an interesting bunch. Had the pleasure to work with an Israeli doc about ten years ago. He had a weird obsession with BMW motorcycles, which I often chirped him for. I remember breaking the ice with him by asking if had traveled to Masada. Hope he is doing well in lieu of recent events.

 

[BenG]

Yes, fair enough, and fair points on the Kadri situation. Although it's easy to not feel discriminated against when you don't identify with any group and the one you do fit into you probably dislike the most en masse (i.e. white male)

Ya no worries and to be honest I think you don’t necessarily identify with a group inherently. Rather, others tend to identify as part of a group and discriminate against you accordingly. If anything, self-identifying is a matter of survival for minorities that face persecution.

Speaking for Jewish people particularly, having strong community has been the major factor in their survival considering they’ve faced genocide from the Byzantines, Babylonians, Philistines, Greeks, Romans, Pagans, Roman-Catholics, Assyrians, Islamic Caliphates, Spanish Inquisition, Christian Crusades, Ottomans, Russian Cossacks, Nazis, Soviets, and a million other groups in between. It’s a wild history lol

Timeline of antisemitism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[doublechili]

BTW, according to Lenny Bruce, Kyle Palmieri as an Italian guy from NY would be Jewish, as opposed to Goyish. Not to confuse matters here.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Chychrun's father, Jeff, is a former defenceman who played for eight seasons in the NHL. He is a dual American–Canadian citizen of Ukrainian and Jewish descent. Jakob is also the nephew of Luke Richardson a former NHL defenceman and current head coach of the Blackhawks.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Ya no worries and to be honest I think you don’t necessarily identify with a group inherently. Rather, others tend to identify as part of a group and discriminate against you accordingly. If anything, self-identifying is a matter of survival for minorities that face persecution.

Speaking for Jewish people particularly, having strong community has been the major factor in their survival considering they’ve faced genocide from the Byzantines, Babylonians, Philistines, Greeks, Romans, Pagans, Roman-Catholics, Assyrians, Islamic Caliphates, Spanish Inquisition, Christian Crusades, Ottomans, Russian Cossacks, Nazis, Soviets, and a million other groups in between. It’s a wild history lol

Timeline of antisemitism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

yes, perhaps I have it backwards. Easy not to persecute against anyone else if you don't identify with any particular group. Maybe that's more of the road to reduce discrimination (hello psych*delics! )

 

[BenG]

yes, perhaps I have it backwards. Easy not to persecute against anyone else if you don't identify with any particular group. Maybe that's more of the road to reduce discrimination (hello psych*delics! )

Perhaps, I think that sort of tribalism is both inevitable and the downfall of society. It’s always easier to blame minorities for your faults than yourself. Throughout history it just so happens that Jews have been a minority in every single country in the world making them the prefect scapegoats every time. Sad really.

Cheers mate !

 

[Kane One]

I honestly think this thread has ran its course, considering this is a hockey forum. I’m glad people here learned things, though.