Has Quebec City been priced out of the NHL?

[cbcwpg]

Doesn't matter if QC had 2 Billion to buy a team with, the NHL does not want another team in the east, so expansion to QC is out and will never happen. But , relocation will always be an option. Maybe not today but eventually.

The problem is that as the NHL keeps trying to move towards higher revenues ( and adding Seattle or Houston would do that ) the Cap has to go up. And as the cap goes up, someone will be left behind, because some team has to be at the bottom, and some team will struggle to make a payroll.

 

[Mightygoose]

It's hard to know if Quebec City has been priced out. A few years ago, no one saw anyone never mind Vegas paying 500 million. Even after they applied, many here said that no one in Seattle would pay that much and yesterday we found out they were 'right'.

Overall, it's going to be a long road for them. Too many uncertain franchises to expand to 34 and the top 2 relocation candidates are both in the west where Houston seems to be a more suitable landing spot.

Lots of dominos still need to fall. Expansion to Seattle to eliminate the conference imbalance is he first.

 

[SCBlueLiner]

Seattle is a bigger hockey market in waiting than many people think. I am just thinking about the youth hockey scene out there and it is doing pretty well. Heck, I played in the USA Hockey National Tournament held in Seattle back in 1989! That area of the country is growing. The biggest mistake the NHL made is not getting in that market before the MLS Sounders. Seattle could be one of the biggest hockey markets in the USA right now, if the NHL had moved there immediately after the Sonics left town.

 

[Riptide]

Doesn't matter if QC had 2 Billion to buy a team with, the NHL does not want another team in the east, so expansion to QC is out and will never happen. But , relocation will always be an option. Maybe not today but eventually.

The problem is that as the NHL keeps trying to move towards higher revenues ( and adding Seattle or Houston would do that ) the Cap has to go up. And as the cap goes up, someone will be left behind, because some team has to be at the bottom, and some team will struggle to make a payroll.

Except even if they move whomever is at the bottom, there will just be a new person at the bottom. So unless the team at the bottom is really lagging behind - to the point that they're so far off from the rest of the pack revenue wise, moving them doesn't change all that much. EG:

Team 32: 50m (revenue)
Team 31: 80m
Team 30: 81m
Team 29: 81.5m
etc

If they're in a situation like the above, sure, then moving them will make a big impact. But if that team at 32 is very close to the team at 31/30, then moving them only improves their fortunes... at the expense of whomever will be the 'new team' at the bottom.

 

[Svechhammer]

[MOD]

Yes, QC's likely been priced out of the NHL....and it's likely being used as a soft landing for SOME team that's in dire straits. I still think it's Carolina, the new owner's words that the team will be staying in Raleigh notwithstanding.

Give up on the Canes moving. Its not happening.

The NHL BOG made a point of not approving any sale that included a move. This same board would need to approve a move, and they have been clear this whole time that they are not receptive to the team moving.

If they're not receptive to the team moving now, when they're getting multiple games of less than 9k in attendance with a franchise who hasn't made the playoffs in 8 (soon to be 9) years. The organization is currently at its nadir, and if they're not moving now, they're not ever moving.

 

[tony d]

There'll be no further expansion for a long time so that's out the window. Seattle will get the 32nd team. Arizona will eventually move to Houston IMO. Not sold on Vegas being there long term so they have to find a home but it will be in the West (Kansas City or Portland). It's unfortunate to see this but doubt Quebec City sees a team anytime soon unless it's relocation (Florida possibly)

 

[cbcwpg]

Give up on the Canes moving. Its not happening.

The NHL BOG made a point of not approving any sale that included a move. This same board would need to approve a move, and they have been clear this whole time that they are not receptive to the team moving.

If they're not receptive to the team moving now, when they're getting multiple games of p>

This is the same league that approved a sale to the ASG in Atlanta and probably thought that the Thrashers were never going to move either.

The point is....All that can be said is that any sale of any team involves a 7-year no relocation clause as per the NHL constitution. After that, who knows.

The thing I find most interesting about this sale is the 3 years to buy out the 48% that K still owns. Not to sound morbid, but what happens if K doesn't make it 3 years? Does his estate automatically agree to a sale at a fair price 3 years from now? Or does it get stuck in the courts while his family fights over who owns his share? Just wondering.

 

[Svechhammer]

This is the same league that approved a sale to the ASG in Atlanta and probably thought that the Thrashers were never going to move either.

The point is....All that can be said is that any sale of any team involves a 7-year no relocation clause as per the NHL constitution. After that, who knows.

The thing I find most interesting about this sale is the 3 years to buy out the 48% that K still owns. Not to sound morbid, but what happens if K doesn't make it 3 years? Does his estate automatically agree to a sale at a fair price 3 years from now? Or does it get stuck in the courts while his family fights over who owns his share? Just wondering.

The numbers were already finalized.

The sale now is for 52% of a franchise valuation of $460m with the option to buy the remaining 48% within 3 years at a franchise valuation of $550m. That is, Dundon pays $239.2m up front now, and within 3 years he can buy the rest for $264m. Should Karmanos kick the bucket, I would assume that part of the agreement would still be in place, and his family would essentially be fighting over which portion of the $264m they would get. (Interestingly, this puts the sale price of the team at around $503m.)

With that said, back to the franchise, everything I've heard from this is that the NHL is not receptive at all to allowing a Cup winning franchise to leave the location in which they won their title. Obviously, if a new arena deal cannot be worked out with NC in 2025, things could change, but they are always going to exhaust every avenue they can to keep the team where it is before allowing it to move elsewhere. The optics of moving out of what was once called one of their successes is incredibly bad, and something they are actively avoiding to keep other valuations high.

 

[htpwn]

Yes, they're priced out, but not sure it makes much of a difference. The NHL clearly never had much of an interest in the first place.

The conference imbalance is a pretty shallow excuse when talking about transactions in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The real reason is that several NHL owners and maybe Bettman himself continue to have a hard-on for large, often indifferent American markets and a dislike of small, passionate Canadian markets. Jeremy Jacobs, who is perhaps the NHL's most influential owner and who most recently was inducted in the HHOF as a "Builder" to honour his contribution to a game he's spent years damaging, all but said as much a few months ago.

When the Thrashers relocated to Winnipeg, one of the explanations many of us gave was that it was a matter of last resort: Yes, Chipman did everything right and David Thomson's involvement gave the bid a shiny veneer that it otherwise would not have, but what it came down to is that the Thrashers were being pushed out of the Atlanta market by ASG and there was no American market ready to take the team. The choice for the NHL was either Winnipeg or contraction. Some doubted that narrative at the time. With how Québec City's been treated, time seems to have borne it out. Québec City is the on the NHL's radar... provided every American option has been tried first.

Speaking of which, I wonder if the league has refunded that $10 million? At the very least, if not back to Peladeau and co., they should give it to some Québec City charity.

 

[powerstuck]

[MOD]

They aren't priced out, the league is just not interested in them for an expansion team.

This is the only true answer.

I just hope citizens of Quebec City stop attending Habs pre-seasons games.
You don't want us, we f***ing down't want you either.
Sadly, we're a very dumb bunch and will continue to be the only city in North America to sell out a pre-season game at Premium Game Prices in Mtl and Toronto. Yep, we're just that much stupid.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

[MOD]

Sacramento and Salt Lake City

.

Both have CSAs of almost 2.5 million, thanks for making my point.

 

[dechire]

Speaking of which, I wonder if the league has refunded that $10 million? At the very least, if not back to Peladeau and co., they should give it to some Québec City charity.

If you're referring to the expansion application fee then no because they never actually applied. If they had, they could get 8m back.

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Nothing but an absolute joke to have the NHL to expand to some hipster city which barely supports an NFL team and lost an NBA team than to go to hockey crazy Quebec City. Bettman is nothing but a troll under the bridge. Can't wait until he Fs off from the NHL.

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Quebec City has done everything it can. The problem is Gary Bettman. This guy just hates Canada...it's pretty obvious now.

 

[gstommylee]

Quebec City has done everything it can. The problem is Gary Bettman. This guy just hates Canada...it's pretty obvious now.

Can we stop with the whole Bettman is anti canada. He does what is in the best interest in the NHL. He does what his boss' the owners tell him to. And if we had someone else as commissioner the result would been the same.

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Can we stop with the whole Bettman is anti canada. He does what is in the best interest in the NHL. He does what his boss' the owners tell him to. And if we had someone else as commissioner the result would been the same.

Bettman is anti-Canada in the sense that his pride is at stake. It was under his tenure that Winnipeg and Quebec City left...and Hamilton ultimately was refused an expansion team.

Tell me what is the best interest of the NHL remaining in Arizona?
Tell me what was the purpose of expanding against to Atlanta only for it to fail?
Florida doesn't look like it's going to survive either.

Did you see Bettman's face when Winnipeg got the Thrashers? It was like he saw a ghost.

And tell me, how does Quebec City lose to freaking Seattle (aka Hipster Doucheville)

 

[Killion]

Can we stop with the whole Bettman is anti canada. He does what is in the best interest in the NHL. He does what his boss' the owners tell him to. And if we had someone else as commissioner the result would been the same.

Pretty much this guys, was going to post something similar myself so thanks tommy.... I'm no Bettman fan but at least persecute, vent on the appropriate parties. I believe Quebec is in fact still very much in play but no, not as an Expansion candidate so please, I know it feels good, but do try & refrain from going A.N.I.M.A.L. on GB huh?

 

[Mightygoose]

Lebruns's comments on QC via his article on the Athletic (pay wall)

LeBrun: NHL eager to get Seattle in the mix as expansion and...

"You feel for hockey fans in Quebec City. There’s a beautiful rink there, I saw firsthand a few years ago that it’s spectacular, it would be among the best NHL rinks going.
One of the reasons the NHL gave for rejecting Quebec City’s bid last time around was geography and the desire to focus on balancing the conferences. Seattle, once in, will make it a clean 16 clubs on each side.
“I don’t think today’s events have any impact on Quebec City,” said Daly. “If I wanted to be positive, I’d say one of the things we kept harping on is we need another team in the West before we consider expanding in the East. If, if, if Seattle submits an expansion application and is approved by the Board, then you have your other team in the West and you’ve solved your balance issue.”
In other words, what Daly is saying is that one way of looking at it if you’re Quebec is that Seattle balancing out the conferences is a needed step before the league can circle back to Quebec City one day in one form or another, whether that’s expanding to 34 teams or a franchise relocation in the East.

But for now, the return of the Nordiques has never seemed so far away."

Yup....looooong road

 

[viper0220]

I disagree, [MOD] Look at the stock market. Things are really, really looking up economically for the US. As an impartial Québécois. I'd say with their brillant tax reform I predict significant growth and job creatiom in the short-medium term in the US.

As for not gettong a team, as I've often said, it's not my loss, it's the NHL's. My money is going to other activities other then going to NHL Hockey games, it's their loss.

We'll see. But especially with a booming economy in the next few years at least, I dont see chaos in the NHL's front window. However, some teams are endless money losers. And that's not a permanent state of affairs in my opinion. So we'll see if there's always a new sucker owner who'll "turn things around" for perpetually money losing teams.

The US economy will go into recession, it kind of always does after a while.

As for the team, I think that Quebec City will get a team, whenBrian Mulroney and the PKP were invited to the 100 year celebration, that means that they are on good terms and that goes a long way in the NHL's books.

 

[cbcwpg]

Quebec has not been priced out because they were never priced in.

Not pointing fingers but you have to be realistic when it comes to the NHL Everyone in Winnipeg knows why the Thrashers ended up in Winnipeg. It's not because of a good business plan and because of good ownership, although those things made the process go smoothly. It happened because of being in the right place at the right time with the right circumstances. And that was because of a dying franchise that needed to be moved on short notice with no where else to go. Winnipeg was never going to be an expansion team....we all knew that... it was relocation or nothing. And that's QC. QC can't buy it's way into the NHL because the NHL needs them for other purposes, mainly as a threat to their existing teams.

Bettman's job is to make the most amount of money he can for the NHL, but any recommendations for relocation or expansion come from the other owners, not just Bettman. Bettman does not hate Canada... in fact he has a Canadian owner on his expansion committee. He's trying to make rich people richer.

 

[gordie]

Quebec City has done everything it can. The problem is Gary Bettman. This guy just hates Canada...it's pretty obvious now.

Has Quebec City evolved from the problems it has in the 1990's? Quebec City is looked upon as a Government town without enough corporate backing and that would be the 2nd smallest market to host a major sports team (Green Bay 1st). I want Quebec City to return but money talks and that goes far beyond the people buying tickets for the arena.

 

[JMROWE]

Yes Quebec City & any other Canadian city has been priced out of an NHL. expansion franchise but No on getting franchise because as of right now there are 4 NHL. teams on the chopping block for relocation namely the Coyotes , Hurricanes , Panthers & NY. Islanders it is possible that Quebec City , Hamilton & Houston are places where these franchises could land in by 2030 pretty much on the cheap & maybe in couple years we will be adding the Golden Knights to that chopping block list .

 

[Headshot77]

Doesn't matter if QC had 2 Billion to buy a team with, the NHL does not want another team in the east, so expansion to QC is out and will never happen. But , relocation will always be an option. Maybe not today but eventually.

The problem is that as the NHL keeps trying to move towards higher revenues ( and adding Seattle or Houston would do that ) the Cap has to go up. And as the cap goes up, someone will be left behind, because some team has to be at the bottom, and some team will struggle to make a payroll.

I think the whole point of instituting a salary cap, salary floor, and revenue sharing is to level the playing field financially. The fact that some teams are at the floor is not a sign of the system failing, there SHOULD be teams at the floor. But the policies in place prevent some teams from outright being uncompetitive, and ideally keeps the whole league in relative parity. Arizona is the major exception to this, however, as they have been using clever contracts to circumvent the cap floor, and can barely meet payroll. IMO, that's Arizona failing, not the salary cap system.

 

[JMROWE]

Likely very few. And if we're being honest, I would imagine that the city at the top of the NHL's wish list in the east would be Toronto 2/Hamilton/GTA2/etc. But with no arena, maybe Quebec City has a chance if something changes suddenly - but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I agree Quebec City has a brand new arena all ready for an NHL. team & Hamilton dose have an ageing arena but I think they are going to do is not build a new one instead do what Seattle is doing & renovating there current one reason I say this is FirstOntario Center sits right in the middle of the downtown Hamilton & pretty much connected to a mall that has shops , places to eat , Sheraton hotel & plenty of parking so in my opinion you will see the Quebec Nordiques & Ontario (Hamilton) Tigers take the ice by 2030 & as for 2nd team in Toronto not going to happen because nobody in there right mind well over a billion dollars for a 2nd banana NHL. team to the leafs in Toronto .

 

[powerstuck]

Both have CSAs of almost 2.5 million, thanks for making my point.

Phoenix Metro : 4,192,887 (2010 Census) - Estimated to 4,574,531 in 2015 numbers.

Phoenix Metro had a 0.4 TV rating for hockey. While that isn't last in the league (WTF Colorado) it's under 20000 households for a market of a whoping 4.2 million people. Sounds great no ?