Has Germany and Switzerland surpassed Slovakia?

[GermanSpitfire]

Nail Yakupov passed the eye test and showed world class skill his first year in the nhl too. Doubt they Stutzle will be the same but it’s not impossible, as development is anything but linear. Seider, yes is way ahead of Slovak prospects right now, I’m not debating that. And as for Reichel and Peterka they are just as much unproven as Nemec or Slafkovsky. Both of whom project to go in the top 10, i would argue Mesar is a better comparison for Reichel. All are unproven though, until they show it in the NHL. As far as the future goes, it’s even more difficult to tell.

However there is a reason Slovakia beat Germany 12-2 at the recent Hlinkas despite missing guys like J. Chromiak and Gabriel. Than the u17s beat Germany again by few goals a few weeks later. I’d argue that even the 9th or 10th best Slovak 2004 born is better than any 2004 born from Germany. And the 05s is again, a gap.

However, I agree all these guys are unproven until they get to the NHL and show they are stars. Like I said at the beginning, development is not linear. Who knows, maybe Bokk takes off and becomes the best of him, Reichel and Peterka.

Going to extremes to create a narrative for your argument usually means the agrument you’re trying to present holds little merit. Stützle won’t be a Yakupov. His Vision, playmaking, footwork and skating is too good for him to fail.

Best on best between the Germans and Slovaks; Germany has the advantage. Not saying the game will be a blow out but going into the game Germany would be the favourite.
Slovakia has a wealth of talent come through the pipeline which is exiting to see, you have some potential stars in Nemec and Dvorksy that look to be very good NHL prospects. But we’re talking about now and I don’t think that there’s much debate that Germany has the better best on best team.

 

[Antiillafire]

Going to extremes to create a narrative for your argument usually means the agrument you’re trying to present holds little merit. Stützle won’t be a Yakupov. His Vision, playmaking, footwork and skating is too good for him to fail.

Best on best between the Germans and Slovaks; Germany has the advantage. Not saying the game will be a blow out but going into the game Germany would be the favourite.
Slovakia has a wealth of talent come through the pipeline which is exiting to see, you have some potential stars in Nemec and Dvorksy that look to be very good NHL prospects. But we’re talking about now and I don’t think that there’s much debate that Germany has the better best on best team.

Never said he would be. All I was saying is countering the point that 1 good rookie season where a player shows great skills can guarantee success for a career. I do think Stutzle will be a good to great player in the NHL for many years.

And yes I agree, Germany would be the favorite if Slovakia and Germany went up against each other.

 

[Eye of Ra]

the current rankings BTW, if anyone is interested is

1. Canada
2. Finland
3. Russia
4. United States
5. Germany
6. Czech Republic
7. Sweden
8. Switzerland
9.Slovakia
10. Latvia
11. Norway
12. Denmark

Chine BTW is 32nd right behind powerhouses Spain and just ahead of Australia.

germany is not even close to swedens and czechs level. sweden and czechia have larger pool of prospects and way more nhlers than germany.

 

[wetcoast]

germany is not even close to swedens and czechs level. sweden and czechia have larger pool of prospects and way more nhlers than germany.

Those are the IIHF rankings not mine, I would slid Sweden up to five then the next 3 might be up for grabs depending on the day.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

germany is not even close to swedens and czechs level. sweden and czechia have larger pool of prospects and way more nhlers than germany.

Agreed. Don’t take much from those rankings anyway. Germany is at most #8 right now in terms of world ranking.

 

[Czechboy]

germany is not even close to swedens and czechs level. sweden and czechia have larger pool of prospects and way more nhlers than germany.

I'd say Sweden has a decided advantage. Czechs could easily lose to a German best on best squad. I'd say the gap between Czechs and Swedes is pretty big too. Sweden is on another level. The 6 d they will cut for Olympics would probably all make our squad.

 

[Czechboy]

Never said he would be. All I was saying is countering the point that 1 good rookie season where a player shows great skills can guarantee success for a career. I do think Stutzle will be a good to great player in the NHL for many years.

And yes I agree, Germany would be the favorite if Slovakia and Germany went up against each other.

It'd be damn close imo.

I agree with above... The big difference is drai.

If we are using today... Slovaks have a deeper D and better depth in bottom 6. Halak vs grubauer is close.

Both are well coached.

As of today... Seider has yet to play an NHL game.

As for the German prospects... I do think they'll all become good NHLers .. but they are not there yet and injuries and such can happen. Eg. Czechs had 2 very good prospects in lauko and jenik... Both got injured and had seasons end within 3 games at the world Juniors. Lukas rousek (more of a bottom tier prospect) got hurt at camp and is out for 5 months. The Austrian Rossi looks amazing... An entire season derailed due to covid.

My point is that if we are using today... A lot of the future NHL stars from Germany have yet to play an NHL game. And I'm a fan of all of them including bokk.

 

[Czechboy]

I was a bit sad to see Kahun didn't get a NHL gig... Big fan.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

As we all know, Germany and Swiss are better than ever while Slovakia is worse than ever. Would you guys say that Germany and the swiss have surpassed Slovakia or is Slovakia still nr 7 in the world?

Enough has already been said. The question deserves to be asked if the Slovakia of tomorrow promises to be as weak as it is today.

But considering the forecasts for the 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 drafts; the question is not whether Slovakia is or will be the 7th nation but if it can be considered as a great nation capable of fielding a squad entirely composed of NHL or top KHL players for the Olympic Games 2030/2034 like this was the case in the 2000s.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

You're doing it wrong...
It's simple math:

SUBTRACT 2 of the 3 best Slovak Defenders today (Chara and Sekera)
SUBTRACT their starting goalie (Halak)
ADD Stutzle and Peterka as surefire hall of famers
SUBTRACT guys like Saflovsky and Nemec completely (who have very similar pedigrees to that recent crop of Germans)
ADD Seider as an NHLer who has already won the Norris

Then Germany is miles ahead of Slovakia.

Draisaitl rather than Peterka as a hall of famer, you meant.

German hockey is very overestimated by some super stars (Draisaitl, Stutzle, Seider, Grubauer).

But defensively, when Slovakia can count on Chara (at the end but Nemec will replace him immediately), Sekera, Cernak, Gernat, Jaros, Cajkovsky, Marincin, Fehervary, no German defender except Seider reaches or will reach a level NHL / top Europe.

Among the forwards, no stars among the Slovaks while waiting for Dvorsky and Slafkovsky but more depth.

Tatar, Panik, Studenic, Ruzicka, Jurco, Pospisil, Hrivik, Cehlarik, Hascak, Lantosi, Dano, Bakos, Liska, Hudacek

German side: Draisaitl, Stutzle, Sturm, Kahun, Rieder, Kuhnhackl, Bokk, Bergmann, Noebels and afterwards it's complicated to find other players approaching the level of the Slovaks (I do not count Macek)

If tomorrow, I have to compose an Olympic team representing the two nations by lining up 25 players, there would be 17 Slovaks for 8 Germans.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Enough has already been said. The question deserves to be asked if the Slovakia of tomorrow promises to be as weak as it is today.

But considering the forecasts for the 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 drafts; the question is not whether Slovakia is or will be the 7th nation but if it can be considered as a great nation capable of fielding a squad entirely composed of NHL or top KHL players for the Olympic Games 2030/2034 like this was the case in the 2000s.

just curious. where would you rank sweden? both now and the future. iihf place us as nr 7, behind germany and czechia

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Today 3, Tomorrow 4. Not because Swedish hockey will be less strong. But because Russian hockey is getting stronger and stronger.

The IIHF ranking doesn't mean anything. USA is still far behind in the standings. But in reality we know that Team USA Olympic is a second dream team that is closer and closer to Canada.

The NHL of tomorrow I see it with 7 great nations with USA and Russia at the top which will have joined or approach the level of Canada and Sweden leads the European nations ahead of Finland, Czechia and Slovakia.
I also see Belarus becoming a nation on the level of Switzerland and Germany. Globally more players belonging to nations outside the top 7 and the majority European players in the draft.

The fact that no more high-level European player crosses the Atlantic to play in CHL is already a clue. Development in Europe is better because it is more pragmatic than in North America where players must necessarily play in a league at a time when their level of play is not suited to the level of the league.

In terms of talent density, Sweden will remain the best hockey nation along with Finland. The arrival of the best Czechs and Slovaks can give you an idea of how the northern European leagues are perceived. It is the best place to progress. Better than CHL or Russian system.
I think the closed league system for young players is bad.
One day, North America will have to reform itself by developing national championships where players slide from one category to another without restriction.

 

[jonas2244]

I don't get why you always need to compare nations. It's impossible to do it clearly. NHL-draftpicks is a good thing to compare the current state of junior hockey. But it doesn't actually have to say much about adult hockey. How many Top-10 draftpicks we've ssen fail? Quite a few.

 

[salamandra]

The state of the Slovak league is irrelevant if we're comparing these nations in a best on best tournament. The Slovak league has never been strong, yet they were clearly in the top 7 between 10-20 years ago.

Outside of the NHL, Slovakia have their best players spread out over the KHL, SHL, Liiga, NL, Czech Extraliga and AHL. It's like discrediting Latvia's national team while leaving out all of their KHL players and saying how the Latvian league is weak.

The slovak league is not much worse than DEL. Slovak extraliga is very underestimated. The Slovak league has qualitatively risen significantly for the last 7 years. Only people who watch "livescore" can talk about it, that its weak league

 

[salamandra]

On the world championship 2019, where slovakia lost agianst germany 2:3. Slovak team was much better like german team. On the german rooster were all of the best players ( I think without Sturm).

I agree, slovak forwards are weaker like swiss forwards, but no like germans. Slovak defens is the best of them, (a little)

G:
Halak, Rybar, Konrad, Huska, Tomek, Godla, Hudacek
Berra, Genoni, Senn, Pottelberghe, Conz, (Hiller)
Grauber, Greiss, Treutle, Niederberger, Birken, (Endras)

D:
Sekera, Cernak, Jaros, Fehervary, Marincin, Gernat, Cajkovsky, Ceresnak, Daloga, Grman, (Chara)
Josi, M. Muller, Kukan, Siegenthaler Sbisa, Alatalo, Rathgeb, Loeffel, Fora, Weber, Geisser, (Diaz)
Holzer, Seider, J. and M. Muller, Reul, Abeltshauser, Nowak, Gawanke

F:
Tatar, Panik, Hrivik, Hudacek, Cehlarik, Lantosi, Ruzicka, Studenic, K. and M. Pospisil, Jurco, Dano, Bakos, Griger, Roman, Kristof, Skalicky, Slafkovsky (young players about 21 yo Liska, Hrehorcak, Krivosik, Kelemen, ...)

Hischier, Fiala, Meier, Niederreieter, Suter, Kurashev, Hofmann, Haas, Bertschy, Bartschi, Corvi, Rod, Riat, Andrighetto, Malgin, Vermin, Praplan, Herzog, Thurkauf

Draisaitl, Kahun, Stutzle Sturm, L. Reichel, Peterka, Rieder, Noebls, Plachta, Eiesenschmid, Kuhnhackl, Loibl, Tiffels, Bergmann, Schutz, Bokk, Ehliz, Michaelis, (Macek)

Draisaitl is star and Stutzle future star, but without them (rather without only Drai) slovak offensive is better than german. The Swiss offensive is the best without debate.

At the end. All three teams are at a similar level

 

[Czechboy]

At the end. All three teams are at a similar level

THIS!

Greiss (who is a great goalie) is retired from National team.. so German goalies drop off quick after Grubauer.

 

[Antiillafire]

Slovakia 7-1 Switzerland. Slovak team made up of players from Slovak league, Swiss from NLA. Slovaks dominant this game. Yet I hear from certain posters on this site that Slovak league is below Estonia, Rwandan, Serbian league, etc. Funny enough…

 

[jcbio11]

Slovakia 7-1 Switzerland. Slovak team made up of players from Slovak league, Swiss from NLA. Slovaks dominant this game. Yet I hear from certain posters on this site that Slovak league is below Estonia, Rwandan, Serbian league, etc. Funny enough…

No need for the hyperboly. It was a beatdown, sure, but the Swiss fell apart in the last 3 to 4 minutes. It was 3 - 1 almost to the very end.

That said the last 4 minutes were a super fun watch.

 

[Antiillafire]

No need for the hyperboly. It was a beatdown, sure, but the Swiss fell apart in the last 3 to 4 minutes. It was 3 - 1 almost to the very end.

That said the last 4 minutes were a super fun watch.

I mean I think it is necessary considering that the one who created this thread rated the Slovak league below the Polish and Norwegian league and also have seen various other users stating that our league is weak simply because we have a Hungarian team.

 

[jcbio11]

I mean I think it is necessary considering that the one who created this thread rated the Slovak league below the Polish and Norwegian league and also have seen various other users stating that our league is weak simply because we have a Hungarian team.

Fair enough.

I thought it was a weak trolling attrmpt by the OP anyway.

 

[kudla]

The slovak league definitely isn't very good, but I think it has to be the most underrated league in hockey history. We've seriously had people here placing it below Polish or British league

 

[Eye of Ra]

yeah seems like i was underating the slovakian league. i admit it.

but not sure if slovakian league is same level as DEL, EBEL and czech extraliga.

 

[Czechboy]

Slovakia 7-1 Switzerland. Slovak team made up of players from Slovak league, Swiss from NLA. Slovaks dominant this game. Yet I hear from certain posters on this site that Slovak league is below Estonia, Rwandan, Serbian league, etc. Funny enough…

In fariness.. the Rwandans have made a lost of progress.

 

[Czechboy]

FTR.. I didn't think it was a troll. I thought it was a good conversation. Neat to followup now that the NHL is back:

German NHLers

Swiss NHLers

Slovak NHLers

German Goalies (Greiss retired from National team hence the red)

No Swiss NHL goalies

Slovak goalies

 

[Czechboy]

Not that points are everything but Slovaks have 11 points combined
Germans have 53 points combined
Swiss have 57 points combined

Halak is currently the best goalie. Slovaks have 5 NHL D. Swiss have the most players. Drai might win another Hart.

I have no idea who is the best right now.lol