Confirmed with Link: Hartnell to Columbus for Umberger and a 4th Round Pick

Forepar

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
1,236
703
South-Central Ohio
The reason I am lukewarm on the deal is that I don't think our "championship window" has even started yet. In three years it will, though, and that's when its even more important not to be larded with bad contracts.

Usually agree with most of what you write, but not this time MM.
For me, championship window starts first week of October every season for the foreseeable coming years. It may very well be a brighter picture in 2017, but CBJ are a legitimate darkhorse to win it all even this year, in part because of Hartnell/Umby swap. Not a favorite to win SC or even ECF, admittedly (see below). But we are on the cusp of some really fun times.

What MM wrote was absolutely true prior to 2012-13 season...we sucked and this trade would have been a red herring that accomplished nothing. But after watching CBJ grow up in its series against Pit, and then watching NYR get to SCF shows me (again) that any club that make the playoffs (and especially one with SOLID goaltending) can run the table (please Bob!!!). In the big picture, I see CBJ as better team now than NYR were 3 months ago during their run to SCF, in part because of Hartnell/Umby switch. Not saying CBJ would have beat LA in 2014; I also am not saying CBJ are the most talented team or the most likely team to win it all in 2014-15 season. There are still big needs (RW, sniper, etc...). We also still struggle with the speed of the game agains a few elite teams...I want to see us fill those holes. But while loving the direction and the potential for the future - I also very much like the 2014-15 club. CBJ should make the playoffs again (not a foregone conclusion), and once there anything can happen. All three of LA's series prior to SCF were 7-game series; 2 of NYR's 3 pre-SCF series went 7 games. Imo, in the East, only the Bruins have both superior talent & depth; a few have superior talent in Top 6 but not the same depth as CBJ. Not sure that anyone in East matches CBJ depth. But most talented and/or deepest teams don't often/always get to SCF, let alone win the Cup. And yes, West is comparatively loaded, but if CBJ made it to SCF (I wouldn't pray for another putt to drop, ever, I promise!) they'd only have to beat one WC team to win SC (though I would dread a Chi matchup - ugh.). I believe it takes some talent and lots of depth to get to playoffs, but once at the dance it also takes SOLID goaltending (no bad nights), good early-series matchups, no injuries to key players during March-June run, etc...to advance from one series to the next.

imo Hartnell makes us a notch better than with Umby for the next 3 years. I don't think MM or anyone else is arguing that Hartnell doesn't make us better - the opinions are more about for how long better, and at what long term cost on the cap. My point is that the trade wasn't made to move us from 12th to 9th in the conference; if that was the case, I would agree with MM. The trade was made to move us from 7th to ???, to get in the dance in a better position and make some noise once there. The mortgage on the future doesn't seem that large to me, especially with the safety valve of a buyout option if absolutely necessary - which puts the term for Hartnell the same as the existing term on Umby. Full disclosure, I'm not a buyout fan, that's partly why I like the Hartnell trade, but I also like having the buyout in the back pocket if this trade doesn't play out well - because i would have supported buying out Umby. We didn't have to. Imo, Umby was done here, no disrespect to him or blame to him or CBJ. He was a solid Jacket, but lost much of his game and his role here in last 2 years, playing hurt/injured (probably both, the latter of which did not help team at times). Hope he finds his game in Philly, except when playing us.

CBJ must get better beyond Hartnell. He'll help, but he isn't the answer alone. Additional help coming with the kids, not sure what year. Who knows what the trade deadline will look like (I want to be a buyer, but "buyer beware!?")
No one player is the answer (well, except maybe Vezina Bob - then that might do it!!!). But let's get Joey signed, drop the puck already and see what 2014-15 package is under the tree...this has been like Groundhog Day on December 21 for a youngster waiting for Santa for over 3 months now. I'm nitpicking MM's opinion just to have something fun to post (with apologies to MM, he didn't even say he didn't like the trade, he said he was lukewarm...)!
 

Forepar

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
1,236
703
South-Central Ohio
Meh,

I don't know what this age discussion is supposed to mean. We're going to have a young team again. We don't have the players that a team like LA has, no matter their age. At least not yet.

Hartnell has the opportunity to come in and do what he does best. He's a 16-17 minute winger who likes to shoot the puck and is good on the PP. He's a bit up and down, but he should score 20 or more goals. He could even reach 30. I think he would make a good fit with Dubinksy with Cam on the other wing.

Our RW is a little weak and lacks depth, especially with Horton and his tendency to miss a handful of games per season. I don't like our top line RW options all that much.

It's been 2010-11 since we've had a good season out of Umberger. We should have improved play, at least on the offensive end, from Hartnell. It's not like Umberger has been outstanding on the defensive end. A change was needed and I don't see how we would end up worse with Hartnell in the lineup.

I'll worry about his age when there is something to worry about. He seems to be aging better than Umberger.

This.

And I could have just done this and shortened the last post by 40 minutes - but that wouldn't have been as much fun...nor acheived the cathartic effect of a post that gets me back to focusing on my work!!!
 

Forepar

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
1,236
703
South-Central Ohio
Groundhog Day #2

I am ready for the loony bin. From another thread I read Portzline's article quoting Bettman during his Columbus visit today:

"When this season starts, any team can make it to the playoffs and once you make it to the playoffs, anything can happen."

Eegads, I wrote almost those exact words 2 posts ago.

"...and then watching NYR get to SCF shows me (again) that any club that make the playoffs (and especially one with SOLID goaltending) can run the table (please Bob!!!)."

"CBJ should make the playoffs again (not a foregone conclusion), and once there anything can happen."

Reading Bettman saying the same thing makes me feel... moronic -- I bought the NHL hype, without even realizing it, didn't I? Can I withdraw that post (yes, I know I can edit it)?
I'm so bored I'm posting criticisms of my own posts.
Let the games begin....please?

And I'm putting myself on probation for a few weeks...see you after Joey signs.
 

MainDotC

Depth Defenceman
Apr 29, 2007
18,987
10
Westerville, OH
I never really liked this deal. I can't imagine what Hartnell's motivation could be coming to Columbus. I think they're definitely on the upswing but I don't see Philly being a place anyone wants to leave. I think Umberger is probably really excited to be playing back home and I don't blame him.
 

JKinCLE

killing time @ work
Jul 10, 2012
1,428
476
Cleveland, Ohio
I never really liked this deal. I can't imagine what Hartnell's motivation could be coming to Columbus. I think they're definitely on the upswing but I don't see Philly being a place anyone wants to leave. I think Umberger is probably really excited to be playing back home and I don't blame him.

He didnt want to leave at first. The team informed him they wanted to move on without him, and approached him about the trade. He said himself that its better to play for a team that wants you, than one that doesnt. Plus he wants to win and I feel like we will be better in that department this year.
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
14,598
1,669
Let me elaborate a bit: I think we stand a good chance to come out of the East and at least stand a chance to win the cup, this year. But I don't think we stand a better chance than we will in a few years.

Further, we currently have lots of cap room, but that will likely disappear in a few years when our young talent matures.

Moving a bad contract from now to 3 years down the road is short-sighted.
 

PubOFH

Registered User
Nov 17, 2005
9,406
6
Johnstown, OH
This was a fantastic move. Hartnell is an upgrade to Umberger in almost every category....and one huge one.....HEART!!!! Umby is a good guy and will always be remembered here. I just dont think that he gave it 100% every shift, and I dislike that immensely. Yes the contract may be a problem down the road, but we are here to win today and today we are a better team because of that trade, no question.
 

WannabeFinn

Beloved One
May 31, 2014
6,459
1,006
Columbus
simulationhockey.com
Hartnell's contract isn't so bad that it can't be moved at all. Could easily be packaged with a mediocre asset to a rebuilding team in the future or could at least be traded away with salary retained. It's not like we're stuck with the full cap hit no matter what for the next 5 years.
 

JKinCLE

killing time @ work
Jul 10, 2012
1,428
476
Cleveland, Ohio
Quote from a Philly fan, "For example, Hartnell may have made some dumb plays/penalties, etc., but at least he was interesting and you never knew what was going to happen. I would rather watch C-SPAN than Umberger."

BURN!

Based on pure entertainment value, I'd say we won this trade. :laugh:

Oh yeah, also based on talent.
 

Seedtype

Registered User
Aug 16, 2009
2,136
806
Ohio?!?!
I think Hartnell has actually been okay with penalties so far this year, but he can be a hothead sometimes.
 

Dednimnepo

Winning is the Fun
Oct 23, 2007
767
0
Columbus
What I like about Hartnell is he opens up the ice for others by attracting attention. He is really "hard to play against" as he plays so in your face, like Dorsett but with hockey sense and skill.

On that top line with Joey his lack of speed can be a liability but once he's down there he's good, kinda the complement of Atkinson.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
42,571
24,602
We all know we won this deal in the short term, its in the next 2-3 years that we might not be liking this as much
 

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,691
6,667
Quote from a Philly fan, "For example, Hartnell may have made some dumb plays/penalties, etc., but at least he was interesting and you never knew what was going to happen. I would rather watch C-SPAN than Umberger."

BURN!

Based on pure entertainment value, I'd say we won this trade. :laugh:

Oh yeah, also based on talent.

Great quote:laugh:

I'll give credit where credit is due. Jarmo completely fleeced Hextall on this one. If ownership was unwilling to pony up and take advantage of the CBA amnesty buyout, then JK was text book in turning lemons into lemonade. Umberger's tank has been empty for years and Hartnell's very well might be in the later years of his contract but not right now.


Points scored aside, Hartnell is an entertaining hockey player. In fact, at one point last night I thought to myself that Hartnell was the only Jackets player who made the game not appear to be the Crew on ice. That was before JJs hit and the hit by someone I can't recall who got a bogus interference call on it.
 

Tulipunaruusu*

Registered User
Apr 27, 2014
2,193
2
Best Jackets forward so far after bit of a slow start in couple first games. Great top-6 support forward and future Conn Smythean.

It's hard to see how they didn't appreciate his possession-driving, physical game in Philadelphia. Doesn't even have injury issues yet so must come down to personal level...
 

Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
14,695
4,297
Need more guys like him. He could lay off some of the penalty stuff, but he seems very determined and capable.
 

WannabeFinn

Beloved One
May 31, 2014
6,459
1,006
Columbus
simulationhockey.com
Best Jackets forward so far after bit of a slow start in couple first games. Great top-6 support forward and future Conn Smythean.

It's hard to see how they didn't appreciate his possession-driving, physical game in Philadelphia. Doesn't even have injury issues yet so must come down to personal level...
If last year's playoffs showed me anything it's that clearly Jack Johnson is worthy of the Conn Smythe :sarcasm:
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad