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Rumor: Halak PTO

Brad Meador

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May 5, 2019
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If Rannta can be like he was last year 21-3-3 or something like that we'd be in good shape with him. Hopefully Andersen comes back soon.

Kochetkov is the goalie I'm worried about. He has not been dominant like he was when he first came up last year. Teams know his weaknesses now due to scouting.

Halak, if he does get signed to contract, if he can be avg as a goalie I think we'll be fine this year.

Andersen missed quite a bit of time last year and we rode Raanta and Kochetkov and did quite well. Andersen then came back in the game 6 of the first round and he carried us to the conference finals. Raanta did his job in net for us in the playoffs until Andersen came back.
 
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mikeyfan

mikeyfan

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CanesUltimate11 said:
Free Agents have signed well past 1 month into the season before though. What would be special about Halak's circumstance that he needs to sign or be released?
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The CBA says you can put a Goalie on PTO 48 hours and you can only do this twice during the season. So if Carolina still has him on PTO, his 96 hours total is over, so they have to either sign him and place him on the roster or release him as I read the CBA
 
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Lempo

Lempo

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mikeyfan said:
The CBA says you can put a Goalie on PTO 48 hours and you can only do this twice during the season. So if Carolina still has him on PTO, his 96 hours total is over, so they have to either sign him and place him on the roster or release him as I read the CBA
Click to expand...

This does not seem to be a case of a goalie PTO but something else.

I can't edit on mobile, but PTO is an Ayres kind of deal.
EXHIBIT17-A NHLGOALTENDER PROFESSIONAL TRY-OUTAGREEMENT Date __________________ MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN: ---AND--- ___________________________________ hereinafter called the "Player" ___________________________________ hereinafter called the "Club" In consideration of the opportunity to play in the NHL, receipt of $500, and the Player being permitted to retain his game-worn jersey, the Player agrees to present himself, upon request of the Club to perform services as a player on [DATE] at [LOCATION]. This agreement shall be valid for a term of one (1) day, and a Club shall only be permitted to enter into such an agreement in accordance with Section 16.14 of the CBA. No additional payment, bonus (of any kind) or any other form of compensation is permitted, other than as provided for herein. Player certifies that he does not have any current contractual obligation elsewhere. Player further certifies that he has not terminated an existing contractual obligation to meet the foregoing requirement. Club certifies that it is signing player to this Professional Try-Out Agreement in order to address a last minute injury, illness or League suspension that results in the Club not being able to dress two goaltenders for an NHL Game, and that effectuating a Recall is otherwise impossible (e.g., a Recalled Player could not possibly have arrived in time to participate in the Game due to travel). NAME OF GOALTENDER BEING REPLACED: ______________________________________ ___________________________________ WITNESS __________________________________ WITNESS EXHIBIT 17-A _____________________________________________ SIGNATURE OF PLAYER DD RE _____________________________________________ A SS IT Y, PR _____________________________________________ C OV IN CEO R S TA AME TE _____________________________________________ N OFC LU B _____________________________________________ SIGNATURE OF CLUB
Click to expand...
 
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mikeyfan

mikeyfan

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Lempo said:
This does not seem to be a case of a goalie PTO but something else.

I can't edit on mobile, but PTO is an Ayres kind of deal.
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So can you explain Article 11 1.(c) Because that is where I got my information and I’m trying to understand the conflict

Ok after reading the contract, if Halak has signed his second PTO contract for tonight’s game, then he has to be placed on the roster and sign a contract or be released. For this is a game day contract
 
mikeyfan

mikeyfan

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Lempo said:
This does not seem to be a case of a goalie PTO but something else.

I can't edit on mobile, but PTO is an Ayres kind of deal.
Click to expand...
This is Article 16.13

CBA_Cover_Front_FINAL_r1_OL



(a) In the event a Club's goaltender becomes unavailable due to incapacitating injury, illness or League suspension such that the Club may not have two (2) goaltenders on its Playing Roster and the Club is at the Active Roster limit, the Club shall be permitted to exceed the Active Roster limit for purposes of adding a goaltender to its Active Roster ("Replacement Goaltender") to replace the unavailable goaltender in accordance with this Section 16.13 ("Goaltender Exemption").

(b) The following provisions shall govern a Club utilizing a Goaltender Exemption:



  1. (i) Each Club will be permitted to utilize a Goaltender Exemption either by: (a) exercising a Recall in accordance with Section 16.13(c); (b) signing a Professional Try-Out Agreement ("PTO") in accordance with Section 16.13(d); (c) signing an SPC in accordance with Section 16.13(e); or (d) signing an Amateur Try-Out Agreement ("ATO") in accordance with Section 16.13(f).

  2. (ii) Each Club will be permitted to utilize a Goaltender Exemption to add a Replacement Goaltender on up to two (2) occasions during the course of the season. Except as may be required by subsection (iv) below, filing more than two (2) Goaltender Exemption Forms during the course of the season will automatically constitute a violation of the Active Roster limit.

  3. (iii) Each Goaltender Exemption may last a maximum of forty-eight (48) hours.
 
Lempo

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mikeyfan said:
This is Article 16.13

CBA_Cover_Front_FINAL_r1_OL



(a) In the event a Club's goaltender becomes unavailable due to incapacitating injury, illness or League suspension such that the Club may not have two (2) goaltenders on its Playing Roster and the Club is at the Active Roster limit, the Club shall be permitted to exceed the Active Roster limit for purposes of adding a goaltender to its Active Roster ("Replacement Goaltender") to replace the unavailable goaltender in accordance with this Section 16.13 ("Goaltender Exemption").

(b) The following provisions shall govern a Club utilizing a Goaltender Exemption:



  1. (i) Each Club will be permitted to utilize a Goaltender Exemption either by: (a) exercising a Recall in accordance with Section 16.13(c); (b) signing a Professional Try-Out Agreement ("PTO") in accordance with Section 16.13(d); (c) signing an SPC in accordance with Section 16.13(e); or (d) signing an Amateur Try-Out Agreement ("ATO") in accordance with Section 16.13(f).

  2. (ii) Each Club will be permitted to utilize a Goaltender Exemption to add a Replacement Goaltender on up to two (2) occasions during the course of the season. Except as may be required by subsection (iv) below, filing more than two (2) Goaltender Exemption Forms during the course of the season will automatically constitute a violation of the Active Roster limit.

  3. (iii) Each Goaltender Exemption may last a maximum of forty-eight (48) hours.
Click to expand...

I would guess that everyone is wrong when they are claiming that Halak is on a Goalie Professional Try-out contact (PTO), which is only valid for one day to replace a suddenly injured/ill goalie like Dave Ayres did.

What I believe is happening is that Halak is signed onto a completely different type of free agent tryout contract, and the situation at hand isn't at all governed as an "Goaltender Exemption" and the CBA articles you quoted doesn't apply.

Hockey news: it's a "free agent tryout":

So, maybe an 11.1(b) Amateur Tryout Contract, only that it's for a goalie:
(b) Amateur Try-Out Agreement. Notwithstanding Section 11.1(a) above, a Club
and an amateur Player will be permitted to execute the form Amateur Try-Out Agreement
("ATO") annexed hereto as Exhibit 17 under emergency conditions as set forth in Section
13.12(m)(ii). The Club shall submit to Central Registry and the NHLPA, in accordance with
Exhibit 3 hereto, an ATO form signed by the Club and the Player. The League shall use
reasonable efforts to approve and register, or reject, the ATO prior to the NHL Regular Season
Game in which the amateur Player is scheduled to play and shall provide notification of such
approval and registration or rejection forthwith to the NHLPA and the Club, and the Club in turn
shall notify the Player, in accordance with Exhibit 3. No Player shall play in an NHL Regular
Season Game pursuant to an ATO unless and until approved by the League.
Click to expand...

But it may also be that you may be completely right here and Halak is merely hanging around the team and signing one-day PTO's as needed.

Do note the exemption in 16.13(b)(iv):
(iv) A Club may continue to utilize a Goaltender Exemption after signing
either a PTO or an ATO – each of which is for a maximum term of one (1)
day – for the remainder of the forty-eight (48) hour period by adding a
second Replacement Goaltender pursuant to any of the following, each of
which shall be subject to the provisions set forth in this Section 16.13 (a
"Combined Goaltender Exemption"): (a) a second ATO pursuant to
Section 16.13(f) (for a different Replacement Goaltender), if the Club
signed an ATO at the beginning of the 48-hour period; (b) an ATO
pursuant to Section 16.13(f), if the Club signed a PTO at the beginning of
the 48-hour period; (c) an SPC pursuant to Section 16.13(e) if the Club
signed either an ATO or a PTO at the beginning of the 48-hour period; or
(d) a Recall pursuant to Section 16.13(c), if the Club signed either an ATO
or a PTO at the beginning of the 48-hour period. A Combined Goaltender
Exemption remains subject to the maximum forty-eight (48) hour period,
which shall begin to run from the filing of the initial Exhibit 27, and shall
count as only one (1) Goaltender Exemption for purposes of 16.13(b)(ii).
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Canes did recall Kooch.
 
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mikeyfan

mikeyfan

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Lempo said:
I would guess that everyone is wrong when they are claiming that Halak is on a Goalie Professional Try-out contact (PTO), which is only valid for one day to replace a suddenly injured/ill goalie like Dave Ayres did.

What I believe is happening is that Halak is signed onto a completely different type of free agent tryout contract, and the situation at hand isn't at all governed as an "Goaltender Exemption" and the CBA articles you quoted doesn't apply.

Hockey news: it's a "free agent tryout":

So, maybe an 11.1(b) Amateur Tryout Contract, only that it's for a goalie:


But it may also be that you may be completely right here and Halak is merely hanging around the team and signing one-day PTO's as needed.

Do note the exemption in 16.13(b)(iv):

Canes did recall Kooch.
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Thanks Lempo. It’s a confusing question for me.

Since he is a veteran can they sign him to a two-way contract?
 

rainband

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So... have there been any reports out of practices as to whether this guy is still any good?
 
cptjeff

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mikeyfan said:
Thanks Lempo. It’s a confusing question for me.

Since he is a veteran can they sign him to a two-way contract?
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Anyone can sign a two way contract. No way an NHL veteran would, but he could. It just means you get paid less in the AHL than the NHL. And if we sign Halak, he ain't gonna be riding busses in the AHL, he's going to be with the NHL club even if he's not playing.

But a lot of people confuse two way contracts with waiver eligibility. You can have a two way contract and be required to go through waivers, the waivers determination is independent of a player's contract. Halak would be subject to waivers if we were to try send him to the AHL. But if we tried to assign him to the AHL, ain't no way he's doing that apart from maybe, MAYBE a conditioning stint. He's made 44 million and doesn't need this gig.
 
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Lempo

Lempo

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mikeyfan said:
Thanks Lempo. It’s a confusing question for me.
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There's two of us now then. :laugh: Indeed the goalie exemption situation cannot just go on, but the lack of a goalie need to be solved some non-emergency way or another. Halak cannot be just stringed along as a PTO guy.
 
Lempo

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cptjeff said:
Anyone can sign a two way contract. No way an NHL veteran would, but he could. It just means you get paid less in the AHL than the NHL. And if we sign Halak, he ain't gonna be riding busses in the AHL, he's going to be with the NHL club even if he's not playing.

But a lot of people confuse two way contracts with waiver eligibility. You can have a two way contract and be required to go through waivers, the waivers determination is independent of a player's contract. Halak would be subject to waivers if we were to try send him to the AHL. But if we tried to assign him to the AHL, ain't no way he's doing that apart from maybe, MAYBE a conditioning stint. He's made 44 million and doesn't need this gig.
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This, so much this. They really should call it two salary contract or alternate compensation contract, this two-way contract nonsense gives the wrong idea like there was a freebie revolving door to AHL for such guys.
 
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