Post-Game Talk: Habs blank Canucks - 3-0

[Paulinvancouver]

You move any of the above roster players and you create another roster hole that needs to be filled. It's a lateral move at best. This team is thin on talent with a prospect pool that is only OK. Any move this team makes has to be strictly for futures - based on his body of work, Benning is the last guy I want in charge of this.

I would love to deal for a dozen first round picks. Nothing would make me happier.

But ownership has mandated the direction of this team. They want to sacrifice our future to make the playoffs now and get eliminated in the first round so they can get a tiny bit more playoff revenue. Benning is trying to be a good soldier and it's Trevor's job to get the owners to back the **** off. He's the one we should be lynching, not benning.

 

[particularsolution]

I would love to deal for a dozen first round picks. Nothing would make me happier.

But ownership has mandated the direction of this team. They want to sacrifice our future to make the playoffs now and get eliminated in the first round so they can get a tiny bit more playoff revenue. Benning is trying to be a good soldier and it's Trevor's job to get the owners to back the **** off. He's the one we should be lynching, not benning.

Botch has said on several occasions that the "win now" mentality is coming from Benning as well as ownership, so I think the narrative you are suggesting needs to be re evaluated.

 

[Evolu7ion]

Botch has said on several occasions that the "win now" mentality is coming from Benning as well as ownership, so I think the narrative you are suggesting needs to be re evaluated.

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...d-why-you-should-leave-the-sedins-out-of-this

BEST HMMMM



I used to believe this, but the way it’s been explained to me up and down by many people in the org and out is that Benning wants to build this way and believes the playoffs every year should be the goal.

 

[opendoor]

We're not a "cap team" right now FYI.

We're very mid-pack, and various IR/LTIR shenanigans aside, our healthy roster would ring in somewhere about $3M below the cap.


We're hardly operating in some zero-margin cap-ceiling no room to maneuver state though.

When people call the Canucks a "cap team", they don't mean they have absolutely no cap space. They mean that they're spending close to the cap to ice one of the poorer teams in the league. Compare the $70M that the Canucks are spending on their main roster with what teams in a similar situation like Toronto ($50M), Winnipeg ($62.5M), New Jersey ($55M) and Phoenix ($49.5M) are spending for similar results.

 

[thepuckmonster]

When people call the Canucks a "cap team", they don't mean they have absolutely no cap space. They mean that they're spending close to the cap to ice one of the poorer teams in the league. Compare the $70M that the Canucks are spending on their main roster with what teams in a similar situation like Toronto ($50M), Winnipeg ($62.5M), New Jersey ($55M) and Phoenix ($49.5M) are spending for similar results.

TBF those teams aside from Toronto are internal cap teams

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

When people call the Canucks a "cap team", they don't mean they have absolutely no cap space. They mean that they're spending close to the cap to ice one of the poorer teams in the league. Compare the $70M that the Canucks are spending on their main roster with what teams in a similar situation like Toronto ($50M), Winnipeg ($62.5M), New Jersey ($55M) and Phoenix ($49.5M) are spending for similar results.

Francesco thanks you for worrying about their pocketbook. Take the two $12 million dollar slugs off the team and we are a lot less.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...d-why-you-should-leave-the-sedins-out-of-this

I know if I were benning, I wouldn't be outwardly contradicting my bosses, especially in the media.

Do we know that he proposed this to ownership? Or is he simply towing the company line?

If I pitched making the playoffs and my job wasmminently on the line, I'd be doing everything I could to make that goal, forget what happens 5 years from now.

If that wasn't my pet project, I'd be a bit more hesitant to blatantly mortgage the teams future.

Regardless, I guess we will all see what Trevor and the ownership decides to do, maybe even before year end, if that's the case.

 

[opendoor]

Francesco thanks you for worrying about their pocketbook. Take the two $12 million dollar slugs off the team and we are a lot less.

Eriksson and Miller? I agree, the team would be no worse off with those guys gone. You can add in Dorsett and Sbisa and that's nearly $20M cut from the roster with little effect.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

Btw, does anyone else find it weird that tryamkin liked the IG post of stecher being sent down?

I mean, he does tend to like just about anything on IG... but it does make ya wonder...

 

[sting101]

And you're equating the movement of guys with big contracts and/or NTCs, to the free movement of a guy (with extra value included in the form of a serviceable cheap depth player and a cap dump back the other way).

Yet even then...

I believe we got a pair of 2nds for Garrison and Bieksa? Entirely comparable to the return for Polak plus Spaling, with a Torres salary dump going the other way?

Keep in mind where they got Spaling in the first place. He was a piece they got while trading a near Conn Smythe winner with salary retention (plus an invaluable 2nd round pick) for a guy who still hasn't cracked their roster, a late 1st, another fringe guy who was dealt for a guy who didn't crack their roster, a 3rd round pick, and some "filler" like Spaling.


The obsession with this minutia of inane detail though. Is that sort of nagging detail really the reason we're behind Toronto in our rebuild?

Or is it perhaps because they've been at it for a decade and we're just starting up in the business of being awful? Perhaps they've had a few extra years to work on accumulating some pieces.

Guys like Brown (2012 pick), Soshnikov (would've been a 2012 pick), Hyman (2010 pick), Carrick (2012 pick), Zaitsev (would've been a 2010 pick), Marincin (2010 pick).

Even more established players like...Gardiner (2008 pick), Rielly (2012 pick), Andersen (2012 pick, after re-entering the draft), JVR (2007 pick).

These are parts of the Leafs rebuild right now, which people seem to get all googly-eyed over. Anyone remember what the Canucks were doing around 2010-11ish?


No ****ing kidding the Leafs "rebuild" looks to be somewhat "ahead" of ours at the moment. It's got **** all to do with getting a 2nd round pick for Polak and Spaling.

Well said

 

[CanaFan]

TBF those teams aside from Toronto are internal cap teams

Well it's neither fair nor unfair, it's simply saying that for a team that spends more money, the results are shockingly poor. I mean, having an owner that is willing to spend more and not set an internal cap should be an advantage for us, no? Makes the results that much worse in comparison.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

And you're equating the movement of guys with big contracts and/or NTCs, to the free movement of a guy (with extra value included in the form of a serviceable cheap depth player and a cap dump back the other way).

Yet even then...

I believe we got a pair of 2nds for Garrison and Bieksa? Entirely comparable to the return for Polak plus Spaling, with a Torres salary dump going the other way?

Keep in mind where they got Spaling in the first place. He was a piece they got while trading a near Conn Smythe winner with salary retention (plus an invaluable 2nd round pick) for a guy who still hasn't cracked their roster, a late 1st, another fringe guy who was dealt for a guy who didn't crack their roster, a 3rd round pick, and some "filler" like Spaling.


The obsession with this minutia of inane detail though. Is that sort of nagging detail really the reason we're behind Toronto in our rebuild?

Or is it perhaps because they've been at it for a decade and we're just starting up in the business of being awful? Perhaps they've had a few extra years to work on accumulating some pieces.

Guys like Brown (2012 pick), Soshnikov (would've been a 2012 pick), Hyman (2010 pick), Carrick (2012 pick), Zaitsev (would've been a 2010 pick), Marincin (2010 pick).

Even more established players like...Gardiner (2008 pick), Rielly (2012 pick), Andersen (2012 pick, after re-entering the draft), JVR (2007 pick).

These are parts of the Leafs rebuild right now, which people seem to get all googly-eyed over. Anyone remember what the Canucks were doing around 2010-11ish?


No ****ing kidding the Leafs "rebuild" looks to be somewhat "ahead" of ours at the moment. It's got **** all to do with getting a 2nd round pick for Polak and Spaling.

Huh?

Toronto acquired Soshnikov, Hyman, and Marincin in 2015. Carrick and Zaitsev in 2016.

They also acquired Kapanen, Leipsic, Lindberg, and a large number of draft picks within the past two years for veterans.

Why does it matter when any of these players were drafted? Toronto missed them in the draft just like the Canucks.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Btw, does anyone else find it weird that tryamkin liked the IG post of stecher being sent down?

I mean, he does tend to like just about anything on IG... but it does make ya wonder...

Does he like everything Canucks related though?

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Botch has said on several occasions that the "win now" mentality is coming from Benning as well as ownership, so I think the narrative you are suggesting needs to be re evaluated.

I'm glad that the Jim Benning Fan Club has moved on from blaming everything on Gillis to now blaming everything on Owners. Predictable, but it's nice to move forward.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Yea he got robbed on those Baertchi and Gudbranson trades right?

Sven Baertschi now has 32 points in 82 games as a Canuck, while getting a lot of premium ice time for most of that time. It's time to stop propping him up as some amazing steal. Those are Linden Vey numbers.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Sven Baertschi now has 32 points in 82 games as a Canuck, while getting a lot of premium ice time for most of that time. It's time to stop propping him up as some amazing steal. Those are Linden Vey numbers.

Meanwhile Rasmus Andersson is a point per game rookie defencemen in the AHL.

 

[opendoor]

Sven Baertschi now has 32 points in 82 games as a Canuck, while getting a lot of premium ice time for most of that time. It's time to stop propping him up as some amazing steal. Those are Linden Vey numbers.

Especially given that he scored at a 35 pt/82 game pace prior to being acquired by the Canucks.

Still scratch my head at how people hold that up as some kind of steal for the Canucks. When that's the example people bring up to make Benning look good, it really says it all.

 

[sting101]

Sven Baertschi now has 32 points in 82 games as a Canuck, while getting a lot of premium ice time for most of that time. It's time to stop propping him up as some amazing steal. Those are Linden Vey numbers.

Thought he was our most dangerous and creative player in the 2nd half of last season. Willie has him 10th in PP ice time this year?

He no doubt needs to be better but would still be a pretty good 2nd round pick at 53. He's a much better player than Linden Vey......your clearly just using stats based judgements if that's what you're seeing from watching him play. He needs to be used in a more prominent offensive role IMO. For instance...Sutter Larsen Tanev and Granlund are getting more looks on the PP right now.....Willies world?

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Eriksson and Miller? I agree, the team would be no worse off with those guys gone. You can add in Dorsett and Sbisa and that's nearly $20M cut from the roster with little effect.

Miller has been better than the Sedins so far. 2012-13 were years we should have started a rebuild but we didn't.

Sedins + Burrows + Edler = ~22 million signed.

 

[PM]

Meanwhile Rasmus Andersson is a point per game rookie defencemen in the AHL.

Yeah I would have definitely preferred actually using that draft pick at the draft. I'd gladly reverse every pick for player deal Benning has done. That's an extra 2nd (Vey), 2nd (Baertschi), 3rd (Pedan), 3rd (Dorsett), 4th/5th (Larsen), 5th+Kass (Prust), 6th+Jensen (Etem). I feel like I'm missing another one but that is almost a full draft worth of picks and I didn't even touch the Sutter or Gudbranson deals.

 

[Numba9]

Meanwhile Rasmus Andersson is a point per game rookie defencemen in the AHL.

AHL Baertschi says hi. So does AHL Linden Vey and AHL Adam Clendening.

 

[CanaFan]

Miller has been better than the Sedins so far. 2012-13 were years we should have started a rebuild but we didn't.

Sedins + Burrows + Edler = ~22 million signed.

Schneider for Horvat feels a lot like "starting" a rebuild.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Schneider for Horvat feels a lot like "starting" a rebuild.

Trading a young top 3 goalie that could have started for this team another 10 years is not rebuilding

 

[FroshaugFan2]

AHL Baertschi says hi. So does AHL Linden Vey and AHL Adam Clendening.

Are you disagreeing that Andersson has been trending positively since the draft?

Or are you saying that it's impossible to evaluate players who aren't in the NHL?

 

[CanaFan]

Trading a young top 3 goalie that could have started for this team another 10 years is not rebuilding

Schneider 27

Horvat 18

9 year gap.

Pretty much the definition of a rebuild move. You may disagree with the value but the type of move it was is pretty cut and dry. They didn't trade Schneider for a 29 year old winger for the Sedins, which would have been a "not rebuild" move.