Gretzky vs. Hasek vs. Orr 6-Year Prime (Regular Season Only)

[Trap Jesus]

Conveniently these 3 players have a stretch of 6 years where they were lightyears ahead of their competition. Rank who was better during these runs. Stats relative to their peers (Gretzky points per game, Orr points per game vs. D, Hasek save %) are posted in the links below, with a cutoff of 100 games played over the 6 years. While the stats posted below are meant as a guide, please consider their all around play as well.

Gretzky (1981/82-1986/87)

NHL.com - Stats

- Won the Hart and Art Ross all 6 years, scored the most goals in 5 of the 6 years

Hasek (1993/94-1998/99)

NHL.com - Stats

- Won the Vezina 5 of 6 years, the Hart 2 of 6 years, and led the league in save % every year

Orr (1969/70-1974/75)

NHL.com - Stats

- Won the Norris all 6 years, the Hart 3 of 6, Art Ross 2 of 6, and led defense in scoring all 6 years

Click to read more...

 

[The Macho King]

I would love for this to be on the HoH board because I want to hear people more knowledgeable than me opine on this.

 

[Regal]

Orr, Gretzky, Hasek is pretty cut and dry in my mind. A lot of people rank Orr number 1 all time, despite Gretzky having the longer prime and a full career, and it's because most seem to consider him the best per-game player of all time. His affect on team goal differential was astronomical. Hasek I don't believe belongs with the other two. The best regular season goalie peak, but he was more considered a best in the league type player than a transcendent talent like the other two. Though perhaps that's positional bias.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Orr is the greatest ever period.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Orr, Gretzky, Hasek is pretty cut and dry in my mind. A lot of people rank Orr number 1 all time, despite Gretzky having the longer prime and a full career, and it's because most seem to consider him the best per-game player of all time. His affect on team goal differential was astronomical. Hasek I don't believe belongs with the other two. The best regular season goalie peak, but he was more considered a best in the league type player than a transcendent talent like the other two. Though perhaps that's positional bias.

I agree that Hasek is 3rd, but I absolutely think he belongs in the conversation. He was posting a .929 save % when league average was .902, and as you can see from the stats, the next best (being two of the best goalies of all time) were still miles off. He also had 5 .930 sv % seasons when the next best for anyone in one season (even with something as minuscule as a 20 game requirement) was .926.

Realistically, I don't know how you can be further ahead of the curve than that.

 

[JackSlater]

I would love for this to be on the HoH board because I want to hear people more knowledgeable than me opine on this.

It will be.

I like Orr's peak a bit more than Gretzky's. It's very difficult to compare goaltenders and skaters, but I don't think that Hasek stood out quite as much despite having arguably a top five peak of all time.

 

[authentic]

No one has been better than their peers to the extent that Orr was IMO including Gretzky (although he was obviously close). He literally doubled defensemen from his time in points and was even better offensively than any forward a few seasons while being arguably the best defensive player in the game at the same time.

 

[Trap Jesus]

No one has been better than their peers to the extent that Orr was IMO including Gretzky (although he was obviously close). He literally doubled defensemen from his time in points and was even better offensively than any forward a few seasons while being arguably the best defensive player in the game at the same time.

The evolution of Orr's points is legitimately insane. I posted this before but it applies here.

The Orr jump in production just defies logic. I can't imagine what it would have been like to experience that (imagine what HF Boards would have been like back then...). When you look at D-men records from before that time, you have to be careful because some people mention guys like Clapper and Mohns, who were actually playing forward in the years they put up their record-breaking numbers. To the best of my knowledge, Babe Pratt had the points mark of 57 points in 50 games, which was broken by Pilote in 1964/65 with 59 points in 68 games. Those were the legit D-men points records before Orr beat it, and then destroyed it.

Imagine this as the landscape of the NHL:

Babe Pratt's freak season of 57 points in 50 games in his Hart-winning season of 1943/44 during the War (and first year of the red-line being put in) has stood for 20 years as the record for points by a D-man. Kelly, Gadsby and Harvey challenged it in the 50s (with 20 additional games played relative to Pratt), but never quite got it, ranging between 50-54 points as their best efforts.

Then along comes Norris-mainstay Pierre Pilote, who explodes for 53 points in his 2nd Norris-winning season, tying the mark for most assists in a season. And then for a 2nd encore, he actually does break the points record by tallying 59 points. Should Pilote have an asterisk because he played 18 more games than Pratt, or should Pratt have an asterisk because his season came in those "inflated" WW2 seasons and the initial inclusion of the red-line? Regardless, who cares. Pilote is the king, and the unquestioned best offensive force from the blueline.

Fast forward a couple years and 18 year old phenom Bobby Orr breaks onto the scene with an amazing 41 points despite missing 9 games. Make no mistake, Pilote still has the kid beat. He led D-men in points again with 52, and has his 6th straight year of being at least top 2 in Norris voting. But this Orr kid who came into the league with such an insane amount of hype... what if he played a full year? I dunno, I think it'd be close. And he's doing it differently, he's up ice scoring goals, not just racking up assists. People are taking notice, and he's sandwiched in between grizzled vets Pilote and Horton on the Norris ballot.

Year 2 he only plays just over half a season, but is still dominant enough to win the Norris. And if you track his points, he actually has the best mark in the league! 2 points every 3 games, just a bit better than McMahon and Green that year. Again, imagine a full season of this guy! Records are definitely going to be broken.

Year 3, it finally happens! This is exactly what we envisioned when Orr broke into the league! He beat the record by 5 points, and he still missed 9 games again. Pat Stapleton put up a crazy 56 points himself but nobody cares... And look at the effect it's having on the Bruins. Esposito just destroyed the scoring record himself. With Orr being just 20 years old, and still not having played a full season, who knows how high he can climb. Will he break the 70 plateau next year? A point per game? Should be easy, the sky is the limit with this kid!

Year 4...

http://thehockeywriters.com/bobby-orrs-landmark-season/

With Orr's landmark season, the non-Orr D-men records started creeping up with Tremblay the next season at 63, taking off with Park the year after at 73, and then skyrocketing to around the century mark with Potvin, but only at the moment Orr's career was effectively over in 1975/76. Regardless, all of these numbers paled in comparison to what Orr was doing.

But that season of 1969/70, everything essentially stood at a standstill outside of Orr. He doubled his own record and every other D-man stayed completely stuck in time to what they were doing before. 120 points to 44 points for the 2nd place D-man that year. No other player regardless of position cracked 100 points, even Esposito. Hell, the closest non-teammate had 86 points. It's the best example of being "ahead of the curve" than you're ever going to find.

Comparing it to other years, you can trace a lot of records to the inclusion of a new rule or something, or rather just a significant increase in scoring for whatever reason. There was a dramatic spike in scoring in Pratt's record breaking year (and the War-time period in general), a dramatic increase in scoring in Gretzky's 2nd season, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there really was nothing out of the norm in 1969/70. Expansion was 67/68, Orr's second season. Goals per game in 69/70 was completely in line with what the averages had been for the 12 seasons prior, if not even a bit lower. It's truly an "out of left field" moment where there was no precedent for anything like it.

Maybe the only thing taking away from it is Esposito's drastic jump the year before, where he beat the points record by a whopping 29 points, but still, you're comparing apples to oranges with forwards, and Orr still had a massive hand in Esposito achieving that record in the first place.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Orr
Gretzky
Hasek

 

[wintersej]

Gretzky is obviously #1 player of all time, but if you limit it to 6 year peak it is hard to ignore Orr.

 

[Martinez]

I look at Orr like wilt chamberlain, just insanely ahead of his time.

 

[bobholly39]

Hasek is #3 by a very wide gap

I have Gretzky 1 and Orr 2.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

If the question was 3-year prime then I'd probably say Orr. But 6 year? Gonna have to go Gretzky, Orr, Hasek.

 

[psycat]

Im with poster above on this one. That said what would Hasek need in order to be in the discussion? -_-

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

The only thing I can say for Hasek is single handedly, he would win you more games. That being said, nobody's going to pick a goalie over Orr or Gretzky

 

[bobholly39]

The only thing I can say for Hasek is single handedly, he would win you more games. That being said, nobody's going to pick a goalie over Orr or Gretzky

If you think Hasek single handedly wins you more games than Orr and Gretzky do - maybe, but than so do Carey Price and Brayden Holtby. And it's more about being a goalie than anything else.

Hasek was dominating, yes. But still far behind the level of domination of the other 2.

 

[tony d]

Option 5 for me.

 

[gifted88]

Voted Gretzky/Orr/Hasek but feel Gretz & Orr could change places and I'd still be ok with that.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Hasek is an easy choice at #1 for me and I could flip Orr and Gretzky. I see a much greater gap between him and his goaltending peers than Gretzky and Orr have between their peers. If I'm drafting my all time team, no question Hasek is pick 1.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Hasek is an easy choice at #1 for me and I could flip Orr and Gretzky. I see a much greater gap between him and his goaltending peers than Gretzky and Orr have between their peers. If I'm drafting my all time team, no question Hasek is pick 1.

I can see Mario was right with Gretzky, but who was with Orr? He blew his peers out of the water and he changed the game single handily. Orr is #1 and ainec applies here.