Gretzky or Lemieux, One player you would pick to start your dynasty.

[Bombshell11]

None of the above

Dominik Hasek.

Yup, he's the only goalie i would pick to start my dynasty.

 

[North Cole]

How many of those hall of fame players won a cup after mario ????? Any idea ?? Need a hint?
Is jarg in the hall yet ???
Didn't Wayne play with Brett Hull, Pronger, MacInnis, Hawerchuk, and fail to get it done???? Then moved on to play with leech, Robitaille, and messier again ??? And still didn't win??
Then there is the kings who had 5 hall of fame players who again lost....

The point which you don't get is the first 6 or so seasons of marios career. While wyane was playing on a stacked team flanked by all stars , mario was playing with Rob brown and zarley zalapski....

What's a Jarg? I only brought them all up because you trash Gretzky for winning on stacked Oiler teams, when Mario himself couldn't win without stacked pens teams. It's a dumb excuse because at best they are even in that department, except not really because 4>2. That said, I guess this is my last post because for some reason the last one got deleted, which is ironic considering the near incoherent rambling that seems to be allowed in your posts.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

176 points in 90 games on a back he couldn't tie his own skates keep that in mind

I know, I was being sarcastic. "He played with X number of HOF players" is a terrible way to evaluate a player, for some of the reasons I already mentioned.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

Lemeiux was gifted with physical talent to be a champion
Gretzky had the heart and mind to be a champion

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I would take Lemieux because I'm biased and also since he showed he can dominate in the dead puck era. More era proof imo.

 

[Voight]

I would take Lemieux because I'm biased and also since he showed he can dominate in the dead puck era. More era proof imo.

37 year old Gretzky was 3rd in points in 1998.

 

[bobholly39]

I guess you hate Bossy?

View attachment 609862

Nobody hates Bossy. Top 5 greatest goal-scorers include:

Gretzky (he scored the most by far, peak/prime, playoffs too, and destroyed Bossy head to head), Lemieux (simply the "best", even tough his career was cut short) Ovechkin (kind of obvious, best prime/longevity ever for goals), Bobby Hull (close mix of Lemieux/Ovechkin). Not necessarily in that order for top 4, but to me those 4 are definitely in their own tier as the 4 greatest goal-scorers ever.

Bossy's case - at best - starts at #5. Personally, I also have both Maurice Richard and Gordie Howe above him all-time for goal-scorers (a lot of that is due to more complete careers, playoffs in particular for Richard), and Bossy #7th.

Also - someone like Auston Matthews so far looks mightily impressive. It's still very early obviously, but he's pacing some of those guys quite well. In my opinion, there's a great chance he finishes in the top 10 all-time, and I could realistically see him reach as high as that ~5-8th spot all-time. I think breaking that top 4 would be near impossible, but out of respect to him I suppose we should wait and see how he ages out first

 

[bobholly39]

37 year old Gretzky was 3rd in points in 1998.

Mario Lemieux showed that his scoring ability/skills declined less than Gretzky with age. Even at age 37, Lemieux was destroying the league in scoring for much of the season till injury/health once again slowed him down.

Gretzky slowed down a lot more. It's true he did finish 3rd in points in 1998, but it was quite a weak year for forwards (many top scorers had off years, injured, or Lemieux himself "retired"). He was only 9th in PPG for example.

I think if both Lemieux and Gretzky had played from ages 31 to 39 fully healthy missing little time, it's almost certain Lemieux would have done better in that stretch. By how much is the question. And yes it's true that the more games/seasons Lemieux plays, the more mileage he gets on his body and maybe that slows him down more too

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

37 year old Gretzky was 3rd in points in 1998.

23 goals 90 points and -11 in 82 games isn't dominating. Lemieux scored 35 goals 76 points in 43 games in 00-01.

Gretzky's goal scoring also fell off a cliff in the 90s with the rise of butterfly goalies. Lemieux dominated those types of goalies. I still believe Lemieux is more era proof than Gretzky.

 

[Voight]

23 goals 90 points and -11 in 82 games isn't dominating. Lemieux scored 35 goals 76 points in 43 games in 00-01.

Gretzky's goal scoring also fell off a cliff in the 90s with the rise of butterfly goalies. Lemieux dominated those types of goalies. I still believe Lemieux is more era proof than Gretzky.

After being retired for 3 years. The rest from the day to grind does wonders. As does having one of the best players in the league with you.

By 1998, Gretzky had been playing professional hockey for 20 years & played well over 1700 games (including playoffs & international play). Wear and tear is a thing/

 

[Bombshell11]

Nobody hates Bossy. Top 5 greatest goal-scorers include:

Gretzky (he scored the most by far, peak/prime, playoffs too, and destroyed Bossy head to head), Lemieux (simply the "best", even tough his career was cut short) Ovechkin (kind of obvious, best prime/longevity ever for goals), Bobby Hull (close mix of Lemieux/Ovechkin). Not necessarily in that order for top 4, but to me those 4 are definitely in their own tier as the 4 greatest goal-scorers ever.

Bossy's case - at best - starts at #5. Personally, I also have both Maurice Richard and Gordie Howe above him all-time for goal-scorers (a lot of that is due to more complete careers, playoffs in particular for Richard), and Bossy #7th.

Also - someone like Auston Matthews so far looks mightily impressive. It's still very early obviously, but he's pacing some of those guys quite well. In my opinion, there's a great chance he finishes in the top 10 all-time, and I could realistically see him reach as high as that ~5-8th spot all-time. I think breaking that top 4 would be near impossible, but out of respect to him I suppose we should wait and see how he ages out first

Thats your opinion, i think most of the world shares the same feeling like Bossy is the best goal scorer of all time and if healthy would have easely gone above 1000 goals in his career

 

[Machinehead]

300 people have voted in the poll. Gretzky should have 300 votes.

 

[Steven Toast]

23 goals 90 points and -11 in 82 games isn't dominating. Lemieux scored 35 goals 76 points in 43 games in 00-01.

Gretzky's goal scoring also fell off a cliff in the 90s with the rise of butterfly goalies. Lemieux dominated those types of goalies. I still believe Lemieux is more era proof than Gretzky.

Whereas Lemieux had 91 points and was -27 at age 37.

And at age 36 he had 6 goals and 31 points in 31 games.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How are McDavid and Ovechkin options but not Crosby? And Coffey??

 

[bobholly39]

Thats your opinion, i think most of the world shares the same feeling like Bossy is the best goal scorer of all time and if healthy would have easely gone above 1000 goals in his career

Here's a poll from a couple of years ago. You're free to start another one

Who is the best goalscorer of all-time?

This is always a somewhat loaded question as Wayne and Mario also brought significant playmaking skills in comparison to the other candidates. For the sake of this poll, let's ignore point totals completely and just focus on goalscoring. I think the Top 5 candidates candidates are: Richard...

forums.hfboards.com

In it - Bossy isn't even listed, and if he garners some votes it's part of the "others", less than 5% total.

 

[Jerkbait]

What's a Jarg? I only brought them all up because you trash Gretzky for winning on stacked Oiler teams, when Mario himself couldn't win without stacked pens teams. It's a dumb excuse because at best they are even in that department, except not really because 4>2. That said, I guess this is my last post because for some reason the last one got deleted, which is ironic considering the near incoherent rambling that seems to be allowed in your posts.

Did jarg ever win without Mario ???? NOPE...did the Oilers win without Wayne ??? YEP....Basically all you really need to understand to graps this ....you was deleted because you got schooled and overreacted like a little schoolboy...try harder next time

 

[Jerkbait]

Jarome Iginla - 2 Olympic Gold Medals
Wayne Gretzky - 0 Olympics Gold Medals

Jarome Iginla > Wayne Gretzky.

How many scoring titles did Mario and Grezky combined have in their final 3 seasons? ZERO
How many scoring titles did Martin St Louis have in his final 3 season? ONE

Martin St Louis > Gretzky/Lemieux

With logic like this - you'll go far in life

Mario higher GPG....Mario highest GPG in playoff history...Mario mote scoring titles in his last 12 seasons..Mario higher Powrplay and short handed goals than Wayne.
Team achievements are almost as critical as no player wins a hart or a scoring title without help.
Both Wayne and Mario were captains of team canada and both in the later stages of their careers. Mario got the job done .
Era adjusted stats show Mario put a higher Points per game .
Patrick Roy said Pittsburgh was the only team ever that you just solely focused on one player , that player was Mario. Felix potvin called him the greatest player he ever faced. Etc etc...from Sean Burke to sidney crosby to Rick bowness to mark messier ....

 

[bobholly39]

More scoring titles in his last 12 seasons....lol. never in my life have i seen a more meaningless cherry picked thing. What about the first 8 seasons - all 8 scoring titles? They should be ignored just because you want to look at last 12 years?

It feels like you're a Gretzky fan purposefully putting forth horrible arguments for Lemieux just to try and make him look bad....

 

[jigglysquishy]

More scoring titles in his last 12 seasons....lol. never in my life have i seen a more meaningless cherry picked thing. What about the first 8 seasons - all 8 scoring titles? They should be ignored just because you want to look at last 12 years?

It feels like you're a Gretzky fan purposefully putting forth horrible arguments for Lemieux just to try and make him look bad....

Last 12 is probably the most bizarre Lemieux I've ever heard. It's such a random amount of time. Gretzky was 27. Lemieux was 24.

First, it's only 4 to 3
Second, Lemieux missed 4 seasons in this time (technically 5 with the lockout)
Third, they both lead playoffs in scoring twice in this time period
Fourth, Gretzky lead the 1991 CC in scoring, so both lead a tournament/playoffs/season in scoring 6 times

If you look at first 8,
Gretzky: 8 times leading league in points, 4 times leading playoffs in points, 3 times leading Canada Cup in points. Total of 15 times
Lemieux: 3 times leading league in points, 2 times leading playoffs in points. Total of 5 times

Gretzky being the best player within months of entering the league isn't a knock in Lemieux’s favour.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

I guess you hate Bossy?

View attachment 609862

Again, not even the best goal scorer of his era. Great goal scorer, at best 5th all time but there are guys that have cases ahead of him. GPG is just a weak argument that is easily picked apart due to him not seeing the backside of his career.

 

[Bombshell11]

Again, not even the best goal scorer of his era. Great goal scorer, at best 5th all time but there are guys that have cases ahead of him. GPG is just a weak argument that is easily picked apart due to him not seeing the backside of his career.

He was the most consistant goal scorer of all time... 9 consecutive seasons with 50+ goals plus. better than "the great one".

There wasn't a more consistant goal scorer and we can't use injuries as an excuse to devalue his achievements. The 9 seasons with 50+ goals is huge... no one ever came close to it. You're not giving him credit.

The real top 5 in my book are or what we call now "S Tier":

Richard, Lemieux, Bossy, Ovy, Gretz

Hull falls under the A tier

 

[PensPlz]

I'll go with Lemieux and his 5 cups with a single team over 38 years and counting.

 

[jigglysquishy]

He was the most consistant goal scorer of all time... 9 consecutive seasons with 50+ goals plus. better than "the great one".

There wasn't a more consistant goal scorer and we can't use injuries as an excuse to devalue his achievements. The 9 seasons with 50+ goals is huge... no one ever came close to it. You're not giving him credit.

Gretzky hit it 8 times and was on pace to do it a 9th if not for injuries. He then did it again in his 10th season. If you are using injuries to excuse Bossy then you have be consistent.

There's no argument for having Bobby Hull (or Howe) below the S tier.

If Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer of all time he's taking that Crown from Bobby Hull.

 

[MasterofGrond]

He was the most consistant goal scorer of all time... 9 consecutive seasons with 50+ goals plus. better than "the great one".

There wasn't a more consistant goal scorer and we can't use injuries as an excuse to devalue his achievements. The 9 seasons with 50+ goals is huge... no one ever came close to it. You're not giving him credit.

I would say that Gretzky, with 8 consecutive 50 goal seasons, including 4 in a row over 70 (a number Bossy never reached) did in fact “come close to it”

 

[bobholly39]

He was the most consistant goal scorer of all time... 9 consecutive seasons with 50+ goals plus. better than "the great one".

There wasn't a more consistant goal scorer and we can't use injuries as an excuse to devalue his achievements. The 9 seasons with 50+ goals is huge... no one ever came close to it. You're not giving him credit.

The real top 5 in my book are or what we call now "S Tier":

Richard, Lemieux, Bossy, Ovy, Gretz

Hull falls under the A tier

Gretzky's first NHL season was 1979-1980. Bossy's last season to hit 50 was 1985-1986. So looking at those 7 years alone (which includes a rookie Gretzky):

- Bossy has 413 goals and 421 assists.
- Gretzky has 481 goals and 856 assists. So more goals than Bossy head to head by a large margin, while also doubling his assists.

Bossy does not belong in a greatest of all-time goal-scorer list. The highest he can start is maybe #5, probably #7.