Gretzky or Lemieux, One player you would pick to start your dynasty.

[bambamcam4ever]

Howe> Richard is as clear cut as it comes. Same era, vastly different results. Contemporaries viewed Howe as better, Howe peaked higher and for longer. Howe has the larger trophy case. The only reason it's even close is because Richard played on a dynasty. Howe was widely considered the greatest hockey player of all-time from the mid 50s until peak Orr.

Hart Finishes
Howe: 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,7
Richard: 1,2,2,3,3,3,8

Bossy: 3,4,6,6,7,10
Ovechkin: 1,1,1,2,2,6,6,7
Crosby: 1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5,6
McDavid: 1,1,2,3,5,5

What is the argument for Howe not being number one of all these players?

Adjusted to similar competition as Howe, Crosby's ppg vs. his peers is more impressive.

 

[Bombshell11]

So McDavid gets 40 pts more then Crosby in their first 500 games but Crosby wins a cup and he is dismissed as a weaker player.

Ok

Oh yeah, did Ovechkin win a cup in his 500 first games? Remind me because I can’t remember.

Which one of them has 3 cups?

I guess leading a team to the promise land trice isn’t worth anything in your pole because “there is no way you are putting Crosby in to the list”.

I thought the question was about building a dynasty but now see that leadership isn’t a factor.

Fine.

Cheers,

No because Towes, Kane have 3 SCs, there's a huge list of players with scs that are either ahead or equal to Crosby. Also Crosby had Malkin, we cant use SC as a factor since thats a team achievement. You dont pick leadership first to start your dynasty... your 4th liner can have the best leadership in the world... who gives.

The list is reserved for only the players that have dominated the league where they're the best in either points or goals, either as a forward or D, Hasek is the only goalie i put in there because he's the only goalie we know that took a garbage team deep into the playoffs.

Crosby is just not exceptional enough. He's got nothing on neither Lemieux or Gretz... McDavid is a big skilled talented player any one would pick over Crosby if they had the opportunity, well unless you're a penguins fans from 2005 to now i suppose

 

[Leafs87]

Went with Lemieux. Really only between him and Gretzky. Assuming we’re doing this based on all players having equal health, I went with personal preference

 

[The Abusement Park]

If we're gonna be honest as great as they were, neither Wayne or Mario ever won shit without playing on virtual All-Star teams. Great players, but neither of them could win a Cup with even just a "good team", they both needed borderline All-Star rosters to win.

Which makes sense. One elite/generational player can only do so much. Unlike say basketball where one singular play can have a much bigger impact on the game.

 

[jigglysquishy]

No elite player (Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, or others) have ever won a Cup by themselves.

Even going back to the 1900-1910 time period, a guy like Russell Bowie couldn't overtake a deep team like the Ottawa Silver Sevens.

 

[TheGuiminator]

I said it before and I’ll say it again, McDavid is having the career I was expecting Crosby to have. Unless he suffers a career ending injury, McDavid is on track to become the consensus 5th best player all time

However, That doesn’t mean Crosby is having a bad career. Hell, he’s 35 and is still (imo) a top 5 forward in the league, while being 18 years deep into his career. Plus, He’s probability gonna hit 100 points again this season if he can stay healthy, which is a testament of his all-time great longevity.

That said, Crosby is likely gonna become the most consistent point producer of all time when it’s all said and done, but likely gonna fall short to McDavid as the 6th best player of all time.

 

[bobholly39]

No because Towes, Kane have 3 SCs, there's a huge list of players with scs that are either ahead or equal to Crosby. Also Crosby had Malkin, we cant use SC as a factor since thats a team achievement. You dont pick leadership first to start your dynasty... your 4th liner can have the best leadership in the world... who gives.

The list is reserved for only the players that have dominated the league where they're the best in either points or goals, either as a forward or D, Hasek is the only goalie i put in there because he's the only goalie we know that took a garbage team deep into the playoffs.

Crosby is just not exceptional enough. He's got nothing on neither Lemieux or Gretz... McDavid is a big skilled talented player any one would pick over Crosby if they had the opportunity, well unless you're a penguins fans from 2005 to now i suppose

It's pretty incredible that in a thread where some guy was arguing that the only fair way to compare Gretzky and Lemieux is to completely ignore their first 8 seasons (8 Rosses for Gretzky) and only compare their last 12 - you still manage to stand out as the poster with the most ridiculously bad takes in this thread.

 

[sennysensen]

I took Lemieux. You wouldn't know at the start of a career that a player would get cancer and major back problems. If I knew Lemieux would miss so many games, I'd pick Gretzky.

If not for missing so much time, Lemieux would have certainly scored more goals than Gretzky. Plus, Lemieux didn't play 79-83 when defending was atrocious. 84 and on defense was bad, but not nearly as bad as early decade, as seen by Gretzky's decline in goals.