BraveCanadian
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2010
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I copied this from the other thread so we don't get modded into oblivion again because I think it illustrates a big failing that has been going on around here lately.
That being the equating of individual performance to group statistics.
I'll just add that we know from the statistics available that Wayne Gretzky was very effective at even strength that year.
We only know that the LA Kings also gave up a ton of goals. Not that Wayne was particularly bad in that manner as an individual.
He doesn't allow goals, his team allows goals.
Have at it
That being the equating of individual performance to group statistics.
During Gretzky's most dominant 5-year period from a goal differential improvement standpoint, he took his teams from 1.11 without him, to 1.69 with him. (1981-1985) Best 5 non-consecutive (81, 82, 85, 87, 96): From 0.94 to 1.59.
(wanna hear something strange I noticed? 1989 was actually the beginning of the end of Gretzky as a dominant even strength player. He was a Hart winner, yet his team was 1.15 with him off the ice, and just 1.10 with him on.)
Doesn't that just happen to coincide with Nicholls having his monster year as a fellow center???
Nicholls' monster year is often attributed to Gretzky though. I know they played together on the PP, but didn't he also play a lot on Gretzky's wing at ES? A review of the HSP would confirm this.
If I'm wrong about that, yes, it's possible (actually, it's true) that Nicholls vs. 2nd-tier checkers was actually getting a better GF:GA ratio than Gretzky was that year.
But keep in mind that if Nicholls was indeed the 2nd line center all season, he only represents about 40% of Gretzky's off-ice comparables, not all of it. the 1.15 I quoted is based on Nicholls' line, the 3rd line and the 4th line.
Just because it is often attributed to Gretzky doesn't mean its true.
Nicholls was a talented player in his own right and a 100 point scorer without Gretzky. Granted, they did tear it up playing together on the PP that year and that is what boosted Nicholls even higher.
In any case you're wrong about your assertion that Gretzky was no longer a force at even strength starting that year.
This is the problem with trying to boil down complex play into simple stats. They always end up missing the bigger picture.
Gretzky and Nicholls were both in the top 5 even strength goal scorers that year.
Nicholls had 41 and Gretzky had 38 so based on the fact that Gretzky was 4th in even strength goals in the league and at that point in his career was by far more a playmaker than a scorer... he was definitely still a monster at even strength.
Your definition of a "force" is different from mine. If he was allowing just as many goals as he was producing, that's not a force.
Think about what these numbers are saying. Gretzky: 1.1 GF:GA ratio. Rest of the team combined: 1.15. You rarely see that for a team's top forward, and certainly not someone who was 2nd in the league in scoring and an MVP winner.
With the exception of 1996, Gretzky was never a major difference maker in his team's even strength regular season performance again. And the 1996 Kings were so lousy that Gretzky had no choice but to stand out there.
How many MVP winners have had Kelly Hrudey and Glenn Healy as their goaltenders on a team that gives up 335 total goals?
You're mixing up individual performance with group stats again.
Try having a good goal differential when you're most played goalie has a save percentage of .873
.873
I'll just add that we know from the statistics available that Wayne Gretzky was very effective at even strength that year.
We only know that the LA Kings also gave up a ton of goals. Not that Wayne was particularly bad in that manner as an individual.
He doesn't allow goals, his team allows goals.
Have at it