Greatest Chicago Blackhawk - #4

[featherhawk]

As I said in the last poll, I think younger voters owe it to themselves to take this opportunity to do some research on the Hawks players that played their careers before most of the board was born, before voting.

Hockey Reference is always interesting, and some of players mentioned are in the HHOF. And HFBoards own History of Hockey Forum has many excellent threads. This thread is an excellent resource and starting point.




Savard certainly was the face of the franchise back then, but arguably he was second tier below the best of the generation. Only one second team all NHL selection. Calder. That's it. Take a look above at Hall's Hart voting results. Way above any Hawks player present or in the past three decades or more.

hall played when there only 5 teams....

 

[crazyhawk]

hall played when there only 5 teams....

Well he did finish off in St. Louis for a couple of seasons after the 1st expansion ...

 

[pvr]

hall played when there only 5 teams....

And so did (all or mostly) Richard, Harvey, Beliveau, Howe, Morentz, Plante, Sawchuk, Lindsay, Shore, Hull, Pilote, Kelly et al. One might argue that Hall had to be the crème de la crème to even make it to the NHL, with only six first string goalie slots open per year. Just think of all the potentially great goalies who never made the show.

 

[rick hawk]

Its really surprising how much respect Toews has lost among Hawk fans in one year.

 

[rick hawk]

hall played when there only 5 teams....

and yet they refer to it as the "ORIGINAL SIX"

 

[featherhawk]

and yet they refer to it as the "ORIGINAL SIX"

"other" was missed....LOL

 

[Taze em]

Its really surprising how much respect Toews has lost among Hawk fans in one year.

Roughly in one year Keith has added a Conn and a Norris and Kane has won everything. Toews hasn't lost anything. Kane and Keith added a ton of hardware and Toews didn't.

 

[rick hawk]

"other" was missed....LOL

Glad you are taking it well! Sometimes I can't help myself....

 

[rick hawk]

Roughly in one year Keith has added a Conn and a Norris and Kane has won everything. Toews hasn't lost anything. Kane and Keith added a ton of hardware and Toews didn't.

I'm guessing that Toews would have easily out polled Savard last year.

 

[Taze em]

I'm guessing that Toews would have easily out polled Savard last year.

Most or all the people voting Kane and Keith would vote Toews ahead of Savard. Just because Toews is behind 2 and 88 doesn't mean he's behind all these other guys.

 

[rick hawk]

..and yet the current poll shows him behind Savard.

 

[Sarava]

..and yet the current poll shows him behind Savard.

What he's saying is Dunc is taking a lot of would be Toews votes. Of course, it's possible Hall is taking some would be Savard votes too.

 

[Taze em]

..and yet the current poll shows him behind Savard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

 

[rick hawk]

....

 

[Hoosier Hawk Fan]

Duncan Keith just going to keep getting disrespected.

Were note voting Cam Russell in ahead of him.

 

[Eco]

Duncan Keith just going to keep getting disrespected.

I love Keith, and he might be #4, but what Hall did for the Hawks during that time is absolutely incredible and I have mad respect for anyone in goal that doesn't wear a mask.

Plus, in terms of goalies, he is widely considered one of the greatest ever.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Seriously. With some of the guys on the board not getting voted in right now is hardly a slap in the face. One and two are pretty clear cut IMO, then there's five guys that you can arrange however and I'd understand, and then another group of four or five.

 

[Eco]

Seriously. With some of the guys on the board not getting voted in right now is hardly a slap in the face. One and two are pretty clear cut IMO, then there's five guys that you can arrange however and I'd understand, and then another group of four or five.

I agree with this. Until Toews, Kane, & Keith retire I think the top 2 are pretty straight forward. Once JT, Kaner, and Keith retire, I don't see how they won't be the top 3 of all time seeing as how we are in the greatest period of Blackhawks hockey of all time and the things we as an organization are accomplishing are unheard of for Chicago.

 

[pvr]

I agree with this. Until Toews, Kane, & Keith retire I think the top 2 are pretty straight forward. Once JT, Kaner, and Keith retire, I don't see how they won't be the top 3 of all time seeing as how we are in the greatest period of Blackhawks hockey of all time and the things we as an organization are accomplishing are unheard of for Chicago.

It still will take quite a bit of work by any of the three current stars to knock B. Hull off the mountaintop of all time Hawks greats. Mikita too. The others may fall below TKK.

 

[JaegerDice]

Christobal Huet.


What? Makes roughly as much sense as Kane being voted number 3 above some of the names on this list.

 

[Taze em]

Christobal Huet.


What? Makes roughly as much sense as Kane being voted number 3 above some of the names on this list.

Hart trophy Hawks:
Hullx2
Mikita x2
Bentley
Al Rollins
PATRICK KANE
End of list ALLTIME

Kane is a 3x cup winner

Art Ross winners:
Mikita 4x
Hull 3x
Kane 1x
Conacher 1x
END OF LIST ALLTIME

Kane is a 3x cup winner

Conn Smythe winners:
Keith 1x
Toews 1x
Kane 1x
END OF LIST ALLTIME

WTF did Denis Savard ever do. Nothing. All Star Games and 0 awards. Point accumulator in a scoring era. The hipster nostalgia in these threads is nauseating. He has 10 votes! over Keith and Toews and Hall? What a joke.

 

[JaegerDice]

Hart trophy Hawks:
Hullx2
Mikita x2
Bentley
Al Rollins
PATRICK KANE

Kane is a 3x cup winner

Art Ross winners:
Mikita 4x
Hull 3x
Kane 1x
Conacher 1x

Kane is a 3x cup winner

Conn Smythe winners:
Keith 1x
Toews 1x
Kane 1x

WTF did Denis Savard ever do. Nothing. All Star Games and 0 awards. Point accumulator in a scoring era. The hipster nostalgia in these threads is nauseating.

I'd be fine if Kane were the next FORWARD on the list after the top 2.

But IMO Hall, Chelios and Keith are all ahead of him.

By the end of his career, maybe that changes.

Cup wins are team achievements. If they matter that much to you, then all 7 members of this era's core should top the chart.

It's just as easy to counter claims of 'hipster nostalgia' with claims of recency bias.

 

[Taze em]

I'd be fine if Kane were the next FORWARD on the list after the top 2.

But IMO Hall, Chelios and Keith are all ahead of him.

By the end of his career, maybe that changes.

Cup wins are team achievements. If they matter that much to you, then all 7 members of this era's core should top the chart.

It's just as easy to counter claims of 'hipster nostalgia' with claims of recency bias.

Chelios Hall and Keith have Hart's to match Kane?

 

[JaegerDice]

Chelios Hall and Keith have Hart's to match Kane?

Jose Theodore has a Hart trophy.

*shrugs* I don't put as much stock in awards voted on by the people who voted Ovechkin an all-star at two positions.

They're subjective awards, and I don't really have the time to go back and look at what the competition was, how close they came in voting, or how many years they may have come close to winning.

Kane had a career year and has otherwise not been close in voting for the Hart. Hypothetically, is that better than a guy who lost out the Hart by a couple votes 6 years straight?

I think Chelios were more consistently dominant at their position, more consistently in consideration for the title of BEST player at their position, than Kane has been to date. By the end of his career, that could change.

Hall in more for long-term influence on the position.

 

[Taze em]

And the cups are team awards. Priceless jd.