Greatest Chicago Blackhawk - #4

[Taze em]

Jose Theodore has a Hart trophy.

*shrugs* I don't put as much stock in awards voted on by the people who voted Ovechkin an all-star at two positions.

They're subjective awards, and I don't really have the time to go back and look at what the competition was, how close they came in voting, or how many years they may have come close to winning.

Kane had a career year and has otherwise not been close in voting for the Hart. Hypothetically, is that better than a guy who lost out the Hart by a couple votes 6 years straight?

When you tie break with 3 cups absolutely and it isn't ****ing close. 3 cups man.

Recent bias isn't a thing when the regency is the franchises golden age ushered in by three players primarily

 

[JaegerDice]

And the cups are team awards. Priceless jd.

The cups are not team awards?

If you value subjective awards, good for you.

The Art Ross is more meaningful to Kane's case on the poll than the Hart, given that amassing the most points in the league requires less context than whatever measure of value the hockey writers decided to go with in any given season, and who the major contenders were.

Like I said, Jose Theodore has a Hart trophy.

In any case, I already disagree with the order of the poll, so I probably won't bother voting going forward.

When you tie break with 3 cups absolutely and it isn't ****ing close. 3 cups man.

Recent bias isn't a thing when the regency is the franchises golden age ushered in by three players primarily

If you care so much about cups and subjective awards, wouldn't Keith come out over Kane anyway for having 2 Norris trophies plus 3 cups? He was subjectively voted the best at his position more years than Kane.

 

[Taze em]

The cups are not team awards?

If you value subjective awards, good for you.

The Art Ross is more meaningful to Kane's case on the poll than the Hart.

Like I said, Jose Theodore has a Hart trophy.

In any case, I already disagree with the order of the poll, so I probably won't bother voting going forward.





If you care so much about cups and subjective awards, wouldn't Keith come out over Kane anyway for having 2 Norris trophies plus 3 cups? He was subjectively voted the best at his position more years than Kane.

Kane v Keith is pointless to debate at this point. Too much runway left for both before a decision needs to be made. What is painfully obvious if you don't outsmart yourself is that they are 3/4 in Hawks history at the moment. Toews is tougher to peg.

 

[JaegerDice]

Kane v Keith is pointless to debate at this point. Too much runway left for both before a decision needs to be made. What is painfully obvious if you don't outsmart yourself is that they are 3/4 in Hawks history at the moment. Toews is tougher to peg.

Toews is tougher to peg if you're going purely by his accomplishments with the Blackhawks yes.

It's his international accomplishments on top of his NHL accomplishments that make him an HOFer.

But if advanced stats continue their march into the mainstream, then by the time he retires, we may consider possession numbers and impact on goal differential as much as we consider straight point accumulation, which would give him a strong argument as well.

 

[Teemu]

I like how people have already forgotten that Toews was better than Kane for like 6 straight years. I appreciate that many of you were still developing as fans when a lot of that was happening, but it doesn't make it less true.

 

[JaegerDice]

I like how people have already forgotten that Toews was better than Kane for like 6 straight years. I appreciate that many of you were still developing as fans when a lot of that was happening, but it doesn't make it less true.

True. And career to date, even including last year, Toews still has the better 5v5 stats. Kane makes bank on the PP.

I'm personally interested to see how Blackhawks fans rank Toews 30 years from now.

I agree that through the bulk of their careers, Toews has been the better, more impactful player, but Kane has the higher point totals, the bigger subjective awards, and the flashier style.

I think from an HHOF perspective, when you combine his sum accomplishments, Toews will be remembered by the hockey world at large as the better player.

But Kane will be remembered by Blackhawks fans as the better Blackhawk.

That's just my guess though.

 

[Teemu]

For HOF purposes, they're all first-ballot if they retired today.

 

[JaegerDice]

For HOF purposes, they're all first-ballot if they retired today.

For Blackhawks purposes they're all getting their numbers retired and statues outside the building if they retired today.

 

[Eco]

For HOF purposes, they're all first-ballot if they retired today.

For Blackhawks purposes they're all getting their numbers retired and statues outside the building if they retired today.

No doubt about it.

I'd take Toews over Kane everyday, however, Kane is the more exciting player to watch and is the king of 'big time goals'. That's why I voted for him already. I still think the Big 3 that we currently have are all interchangeable.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Kane will go down as the best Hawk in history at this rate.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I like how people have already forgotten that Toews was better than Kane for like 6 straight years. I appreciate that many of you were still developing as fans when a lot of that was happening, but it doesn't make it less true.

Kane has been the best player in the league for the past 3 years. So there is that. He's been the better players since the lockout year imo.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Keith's better than either IMO.

 

[JaegerDice]

Keith's better than either IMO.

I agree. Not worlds better, but better.

Kane has been the best player in the league for the past 3 years. So there is that. He's been the better players since the lockout year imo.

Last season was the first season of Kanes career where he had better 5v5 point production, goal differential or possession than Toews.

 

[BK]

Keith's better than either IMO.

Keith tends to be underrated at times. I guess that is what happens when you have 4 HoF players on one team.

 

[Eco]

Keith tends to be underrated at times. I guess that is what happens when you have 4 HoF players on one team.

Well said, I think he does get underrated and you do have a good point. It's insane how much talent in on this team and within this organization.

 

[JaegerDice]

Dmen always get underrated.

NJD never fully appreciated what they had in Niedermayer till he left, and Red Wings fans will never admit it, but most of them probably never realized Lidstrom was the best player on their team til he won the Smythe in 2002.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Keith is the engine that makes this thing go. He will likely age like Nieds and Lids and be elite till the very end.

 

[Eco]

Keith pulls ahead with one vote. I'm not sure how if he is chosen, that Toews doesn't come next. The 3 belong together.

 

[Eco]

This has ended, please click the link to vote for #5

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2106047