Goodenow the deadline hunter.

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by kerrly, Feb 4, 2005.

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  1. kerrly

    kerrly Registered User

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    Ryan Walter was on the radio right after Burke's show last night. He was talking about the CBA and the times when he was with the NHLPA. He said he had some time with Goodenow before, and they talked. During these talks, Walter asked Goodenow what the best way to get a deal is. And Goodenow said this "Its very simple, time creates pressure, and pressure gets you a good deal." Thats not an exact quote, but it was very similar.

    With that being said and everyone well aware of Goodenow being a deadline hunter, this time he was flat out wrong. He underestimated the owners resolve to get cost certainty. I also think he failed in showing that they were interested in trying to find some middle ground. After the first proposal of a rollback of 5% and whatever other minor concessions they were willing to make, they came back with a 24% rollback, which was very significant, and a luxury tax with no teeth, which was propably the right proposal at the right time. But after that, they have to put forth no new proposals or concepts to our knowledge. I think if they seriously wanted to show the league that they were willing to do their part with finding middle ground, they should have had at least one more proposal with a much stiffer tax. It would have made the NHL think, and maybe opened the doors for negotiations. The NHL has had a strong hold on the cost certainty issue and have not backed down, while after numerous proposals and concepts, each giving up a little more with many of those points being negotiable.

    Do you think Goodenow failed? I do. One somewhat meaningful proposal and a deadline hunting tactic that failed miserably. I think he is arrogant, and he let that get in the way of trying to find the best solution.

    On the other hand, I don't think the NHL is blame free in this situation. If a 42 million dollar cap was in fact their best offer, than so be. But I think they could have went to 45 million, and put the best deal right there out front a week ago, and give the players something to think about. Whether or not that would have created a vote amongst the players or not, will never be known. They should have made all the concessions they were willing to make in one proposal, instead of trying to get as much as possible. With a hard cap, many of these cost control methods are not important, like individual salary caps, super restricitive arbitration, etc. They didn't have to give up all of the above, but make it to the point that you can live with without having to negotiate these things. Make the proposal as pretty as possible, but in a liveable way, and things might have been different. I've long been a supporter of the cap, and still am. But I don't think the NHL really gave the players something to turn the tides and really consider.

    What a joke.
     
  2. FanSince2014

    FanSince2014 What'd He Say?

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    So the fat-headed idiots job is to do nothing. He must be proud.
     
  3. Brewleaguer

    Brewleaguer Registered User

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    You hear the PA coming up with all kinds of differant ideas, but you hear a broken record from the owners, what does that tell you?
     
  4. X8oD

    X8oD Registered User

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    your watching and Reading reports from a computer which has "Sponsored by the NHLPA" seared into the Monitor display area?
     
  5. nyr7andcounting

    nyr7andcounting Registered User

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    I don't think he should have made another proposal because by the time it got to the next step there was no reason for either side to make a formal proposal. The right thing to do was to meet in small groups, as they have done. If nothing comes out of all of these meetings, than it really is just simply a philosophical difference. That being the case, neither side can do much but wait.
     
  6. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    To this point both sides have failed.

    Neither side has been willing to compromise enough to put any kind of significant pressure on the other side.
     
  7. likea

    likea Registered User

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    the owners have not failed, this is what they want...

    they have been positioning themselves for an impasse and they guaranteed cost certainty 2 years ago and have kept saying the same message

    they are losing money, more money by playing than by not playing and this proves it

    they will not budge and they are willing to lose the season....
     
  8. Brewleaguer

    Brewleaguer Registered User

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    Gary Bettman walks in to a store and says to salesman Goodenow.
    (Bettman): I want a cap
    (Goodenow) we don’t sell caps sir, how about a nice umbrella to keep the rain of looses of your head.
    (Bettman): No, I want a cap
    (Goodenow) how about a nice awning to help keep that rain of looses of your head.
    (Bettman) No I want a cap
    (Goodenow) we can sell you a house to keep that rain and the cold snow of losses of your head, but we just don’t sell caps
    (Bettman) NO, I want a cap, and if you can’t give it to me, I’ll find someone who will.
     
  9. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Yes, they have. Any way you look at it, both sides have failed. The fact that there is no hockey in February is an absolute disgrace.
     
  10. i am dave

    i am dave Registered User

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    Please tell me what all these ideas are, because last time I checked, the Players made a grand total of ONE tabled offer, and it was on December 9th.
     
  11. chaachie12

    chaachie12 Registered User

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    It tells me the NHLPA is avoidng the truth, and therefore avoiding the inevitable.

    Actually I don't even care, lets just play hockey already.
     
  12. nyr7andcounting

    nyr7andcounting Registered User

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    They have been positioning for an impasse? Than how can you say they have not failed? They cancelled a whole season in order to attempt to achieve something they are most likely not going to get? What a joke.

    Bottom line is the owners locked players out in order to come up with a new CBA, and they have not done so. The owners are just as much at fault here as anyone else.
     
  13. Icey

    Icey Registered User

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    If Bob Goodenow failed then so did Gary Bettman. Because at the end of the day Goodenow doesn't have his luxury tax and Bettman doesn't have his cost certainty.

    And until the NHL cancels the season, neither side has failed. Once the season is canceled, which we know is just a matter of time, then neither one has lost yet, but neither one has won either.

    Both need to make sure in winning the battle, they don't lose the war.
     
  14. c-carp

    c-carp Registered User

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    I agree with that to me this is Billionaires and Millionaires fghting over the last nickle. I know that is making it way to simple but I am pissed off right now.
     
  15. likea

    likea Registered User

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    check most polls

    the majority are for the owners holding out as long as they have to so they can fix the game....

    I am for the owners and I don't mind the season being canceled as long as they get get cost certainty
     
  16. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Polls don't pay the bills.
     
  17. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    If they cancel the season both sides have lost. Maybe in 11 months one side will cave and the other will claim victory, but I'm not sure the victor's prize is going to be worth having.
     
  18. nyr7andcounting

    nyr7andcounting Registered User

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    Fine. But that's different than what you said in your last post. Impasse is not an option for the owners, atleast not an option worth cancelling a season in order to pursue. If you think the owners cancelled the season in order to try for an impasse, than you are wrong in supporting them. If you think the cancelled the season and are just planning to wait out the players, than fine.
     
  19. Beukeboom Fan

    Beukeboom Fan Registered User

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    I agree 100% about both sides failing. I just keep thinking about the old saying "Cutting off your nose to spite your face."

    If the owners & players have this hard of a time splitting $2.1B dollars, I can't wait to see what they come up with to try and split $1-1.4B. I really think they are doing SERIOUS, SERIOUS damage to the game.

    I will say I am more disappointed in the NHLPA because I thought there might be enough players behind the scene to force a change in philosophy. Well, a pox on both the players and owners!
     
  20. likea

    likea Registered User

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    neither do you, and you don't know if the owners can survive or not....

    who do you think knows more about what will happen to business if they cancel the season

    a. NHL owners
    b. John Flyers fan
     
  21. likea

    likea Registered User

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    impasse is an option

    both the MLB and the NFL have tried that option

    they are together 1 for 2 on impasse

    if the NHL has been smart they have studied what it will take and proposed just that and acted that way
     
  22. TruGr1t

    TruGr1t Proper Villain

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    The one good thing about this is Goodenow is a pompous ass and he walked around like an arrogant SOB through all these negotiations seeming to assume the owners would crumble at the last minute and he'd be able to bully them like last time right at the deadline. Haha, Bob you stupid moron, this is what it looks like blowing up in your smug face.
     
  23. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    If the season is cancelled NOBODY knows what will happen.







    Also my season ticket money does pay some of the bills. :p:
     
  24. Greschner4

    Greschner4 Registered User

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    He wouldn't even condescend to participate until the deadline, sending Linden, Saskin, et al. to do his work so he could then rush in and get the glory. What a tool.

    And if he thought he was going to come in at the last minute and budge the owners off the cap by just rehashing how great his December 9 offer was, he's a foolish tool.

    Hey, Bob, the owners want a salary cap. Get it? Yet?
     
  25. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    Bob Goodenow reeks of arrogance, and although he got them a great deal last time, he failed miserably this time...IMO he got thinking he is the man, and we all know he is not the man this time...The players will be firing Bob very soon...I can't see how the PA let such an arrogant guy represent them :dunno: He has just lost them a billion dollars, and yet he still gets around like an arrogant puke :dunno: :banghead:
     
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