golden age for hockey Canada?

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by Prof_it, Jan 6, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Prof_it

    Prof_it Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    During the summer of 1999 Hockey Canada held a summit to determine what was wrong with hockey in the country and how it could be fixed. A number of initiatives came out of the meeting...youth coaching mentorship, skill development centers, etc.

    Is it too soon to view the recommendations from that summit as having an impact on the recent success of Hockey Canada?
     
  2. Coach Travis

    Coach Travis Back2Back!!!

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2005
    Messages:
    14,410
    Likes Received:
    227
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Hockey-preneur
    Location:
    Thunder Bay, Ontario
    Home Page:
    Well, someone like Sidney Crosby would have been 12 years old at the time, so I feel it's within reason as far as time goes. But what were these initiatives? What happened that was so different? Is this a program that would reach all sectors of organized minor hockey or just in major centres? The "initiatives" that were supposedly implemented seem vague to me.
     
  3. Prof_it

    Prof_it Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I searched online for a complete list of the recommendations. The best recap I could find was from HF :handclap:

    What Direction is Canadian Hockey Heading?

    I do remember the feeling at the time...Canada's hockey program was slipping, they were only developing 3rd line grinders. Of course, looking back this was not the case.

    But as someone who has been involved in youth hockey and player development for more than a decade, I'm interested in hearing if these rec's have had an impact. Should they be modeled by other countries? Is the success of Canada's U20 evidence of the success of the Open Ice Summit?
     
  4. Zine

    Zine Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    10,728
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Location:
    Rostov-on-Don
    If there was a big shake-up in the way Canada's overall development system was structured, I think its still a bit early to say were seeing the full results. I mean it really wasn't that long ago.

    That summit was put together following the '96 WC and '98 olympic losses, but those players on those teams really didn't have anything to do with player development.
    However, after 5 straight WJC titles, Canada did go winless in 7 but I think that has more to do with other nations having strong years (particularly Czechs, Russians). Looking at the talent produced in those years, I never really thought there was a development problem. These things tend to go in cyles.
     
  5. espo*

    espo* Guest

    i dunno,it's kind of been a golden age for about 80 years or so now i thought.
     
  6. Prof_it

    Prof_it Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    agreed, but at the time the feelings were a bit different. From the HF link above:

    Over the past few seasons there have been a lot of people
    questioning what direction Canadian hocky was heading in. With an eighth place finish at the 1998 World Junior Championships, and fourth at the Nagano Olympics, many people in hockey crazed Canada were left with reasons for concern.

    That’s when Canadian hockey decided that something needed to be done to get back on track, so to speak. Canada is still the number one player producer for the NHL as 60%-70% of NHL players call the “Great White North†their home. The problem lays in that
    European players are becoming more dominant, and Canada is not producing talented players at a rate comparable to smaller countries like Sweden and the Czech Republic.
     
  7. espo*

    espo* Guest

    can't disagree but even at Nagano we were missing our two top guns (Sakic for the medal round game) and Kariya,with them on board who knows? Still,there was a gap of talent i agree but then again i've never agreed there was some major problem in Canadian hockey,we played really well in nagano despite losing top offensive stars and won 2nd place in the last world cup.If only Australia could have those results eh? And if only we could do as well in soccer.

    i'm glad they took the failures seriously(i expect them to) but as far as us not being able to put out great hockey talent anymore,i suspect they were most likely premature and thats expected when it comes to us not getting the top prize in hockey.That's Canada with hockey,just the way it is.Expect serious hand wringing if we don't win in Torino also.
     
  8. ish

    ish Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Home Page:
    Yeah, the dark years of 96 (or so) to 2002 are over. You guys are crazy. You had a little "lull".
     
  9. Phanuthier*

    Phanuthier* Guest

    I don't even think we were that bad. 1998, we were basically beaten by Hasek. In the WJC, we were still getting silver's and getting beat by some pretty good Russian teams, most of them close games. WC... well I never really cared much for that.

    It was all hogwash if you ask me.

    As for "lack of talent" ect ect... well a "less talented" WJC team this year matched last years "dominant team" 6-0 winning streak, won gold and even broke last year's record of lowest goals against.
     
  10. futurcorerock

    futurcorerock Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,831
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I think they're referring to international competition: IE World Championships, Olympiads, and Junior Championships of their varied variety

    Canada was hardly in a golden era for any of those until well after the 80's

    Now? Hell yeah it's a golden era. Even when Canada isn't favored, they win it all (since i KNOW this thread is a reactionary thread from the WJC's). But it's not like Canada can just haphazardly put together a team and expect to win, as numerous international events of doing such have proven.... Canada has one thing probably over every other country: One of the most dynamic Coaching/GM groups ever assembled.

    Not just the WJC's and the Brent Sutter Man-Crush train, but every year when Canada comes out swinging.

    I'll just say it now -- Team USA beat themselves, and they definitely should re-consider who is running the hockey operations over in Colorado, and who's coaching their team.
     
  11. VOB

    VOB Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Michigan
    Home Page:
    This current Canadian WJC was under-rated by just about everybody (including myself). Their Defense was the best in the tournament bar none! Player for player, Canada stacked up evenly or better than any other team, including the U.S. and Russia!

    Futurecorerock, I do agree that we need some wholesale changes in USA Hockey. We beat ourselves in part, the other part had to do with our soft defense. Yandle, Sauer and Lasoff should have been on this team!
     
  12. Macman

    Macman Registered User

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,214
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Exactly. We lost a World Cup we just as easily could have won, then reacted hastily to that by putting together a Nagano team designed to beat the Americans only by adding gritty guys like Zamuner and Corson. It was a mistake.
     
  13. Big Daddy

    Big Daddy Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One of the key components of the 99 summit was that the euros and yanks had a model that focused on 1 game per 3-4 practices while the canadian model was a 1-1 ratio. This was typical for youth hockey. Some euro programs didn't even allow their kids to play games until they they were pee-wees. The canadian model had to much focus on games and not enough focus on player development. Player development was the key. System development can be taught to anyone at any age.
     
  14. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Location:
    Toronto
    we actually resorted to cannibalism in some parts of the country. it was bad times.
     
  15. Frank the Tank

    Frank the Tank Blue, you're my boy!

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    10,580
    Likes Received:
    566
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    One must remember that for the Olympics Canada was still sending amateur teams until 1994. With pros, however, Canada was still winning the Canada Cup (the only best on best tournament of the time) quite frequently from the 70's on. After Canada's last Olympic gold in 1952 and prior to the 1972 Summit Series, no one knows how a best on best competition between Russia and Canada would have turned out.
     
  16. Chuck28

    Chuck28 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, that was the key initiative. The focus was to come back to the fundamentals of the game.
     
  17. time

    time Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Exactly right. I had the chance to speak with Bob Gainey leading up to Nagano and he said quite clearly that the whole mgmt team wanted to beat the U.S. (which they did rather easily). Too bad we all forgot about Hasek (and the fact that the Czechs are our worse nemesis).

    As for the summit, it wasn't just about training methods but also evaluation methods. It was discovered that skilled players were quitting the game because they were getting gooned up in their early teens. A commitment was made to emphasize skill a lot more -- so this new generation of players come from a system that did not swoon over a "good checking center" who couldn't score.

    Remember when Daniel Tazchuk was a big deal? Those days are gone.

    Led by guys like Gretz and Dryden the new philosophy was that defensive play could be taught but natural talent needed to be identified and nurtured.

    I think this system works -- how else do you get a team with 11 first-round picks and call them lacking in skill? Easy: you raise the bar so high that a "unskilled" Canadian team can match up with any other coutry in the world.
     
  18. prospera

    prospera Registered User

    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    usa coaching and hockey operations

    lst and formost l would point the finger at the usa coach. in my mind they played as individuals and u couldn't see much team in them.
     
  19. ilovekylechipchura

    ilovekylechipchura Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    school
    Location:
    Toronto
    from the recent international showings, Hockey Canada and its coaches are doing something right! Whatever they are doing, itz working. :clap:
     
  20. espo*

    espo* Guest

    i suppose.The talent was always there however.In that way,it's always been a golden time pretty much.
     
  21. Prof_it

    Prof_it Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    thanks for the insight. I know in the States the emphasis always seemed to be on games, but you're right...it was close to 3:1. A 1:1 ratio seems a bit extreme, especially for player development.
     
  22. ShaneDoan

    ShaneDoan Registered User

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Maybe you feel this way when you look history of hockey...but compare to Finland...we have some much less good players...some Kurri, some Selänne, some Koivu comes in 10 years, but you get almost 10-15 (maybe even more :amazed:) superb talents much less time!
     
  23. Jazz

    Jazz Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,446
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Home Page:
    :biglaugh:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"