Speculation: Goaltending problem?

[LeafGrief]

I think the team's woes start and end with goaltending right now, if I'm honest. Not like the rest of the team is playing great, but that's what happens when your goalie is letting in all sorts of squeakers through the pads from trash angles and you have to spend the rest of the game catching up. Defense has been bad, but the goaltending has been utterly shocking.

LMAO at anyone thinking Freddy was the answer here, he was godawful for the last year and a half. We have become a goalie graveyard. I have no idea where we go from here.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Honestly give Kallgren a run. We might have something with him. Goaltending is strange you never know what you have until you experiment.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly give Kallgren a run. We might have something with him. Goaltending is strange you never know what you have until you experiment.

My understanding is that Zamboni drivers have historically done well in the NHL, maybe we should give one of them a chance to prove it over a larger sample size.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Are you comparing Erik Kallgren to a zamboni driver I'm confused. I was serious.

 

[saltming]

Honestly give Kallgren a run. We might have something with him. Goaltending is strange you never know what you have until you experiment.

Honestly at worst it will probably be the same as we are getting from our 'ligit' NHL goalies.
We should never have gotten rid of Andersen.

 

[29Potvin]

Honestly at worst it will probably be the same as we are getting from our 'ligit' NHL goalies.
We should never have gotten rid of Andersen.

Freddy still gives up soft goals and would be a questions mark if he was here. Zebras don't change their strips and he was part of the issue not the solution going forward in the same way that the Kadri trade had to happen.
Fans have long memories and so does the Toronto media, just look at his last game against the Leafs, he was a wall until AM34 beat his and than it became hot potato Fred we know and love. He has just as much to prove in the playoffs as the Leafs.

 

[Statsman1]

If the F and D had confidence in the G, everyone would play that much better. It isn’t enough for Dubas or anyone in management to say they have confidence in the G, the players MUST have that confidence too. Besides, what else is Dubas going to say? “Yep, our goalies stink, but what else have we got? Sure wish we hadn’t signed Tavares to so much money.” That sentiment probably isn’t coming from Leafs HQ anytime soon.

Jack was great when he had confidence in himself, then that faltered, and everything spiralled. Seems like the same is happening to Mrazek.

Find a goalie that the players believe in, and the rest should get better as well.

 

[saltming]

Freddy still gives up soft goals and would be a questions mark if he was here. Zebras don't change their strips and he was part of the issue not the solution going forward in the same way that the Kadri trade had to happen.
Fans have long memories and so does the Toronto media, just look at his last game against the Leafs, he was a wall until AM34 beat his and than it became hot potato Fred we know and love. He has just as much to prove in the playoffs as the Leafs.

Fred never had a stretch like this. Every goalie gives up a softie now and then, but I don't recall Andersen getting beat 4 hole 5 hole 3 hole every hole consistently like these 2 are.

Also fred was injured and they took the net from him when he came back, that was pretty classless, so a healthy Fred was a consistent quality starter, something neither of these two have proven to be

 

[Fogelhund]

Fred never had a stretch like this. Every goalie gives up a softie now and then, but I don't recall Andersen getting beat 4 hole 5 hole 3 hole every hole consistently like these 2 are.

Also fred was injured and they took the net from him when he came back, that was pretty classless, so a healthy Fred was a consistent quality starter, something neither of these two have proven to be

Perhaps, and Freddy was a quality goaltender, but everyone had lost confidence in him, to not let in that one back breaking goal. The fan base wanted him gone, including the majority here, and he had a few too many playoff series, where he was second best. Given what's transpired, sure, we'd love to have Freddy back, but that change was necessary, it just hasn't worked out.

 

[Sypher04]

Fred never had a stretch like this. Every goalie gives up a softie now and then, but I don't recall Andersen getting beat 4 hole 5 hole 3 hole every hole consistently like these 2 are.

Also fred was injured and they took the net from him when he came back, that was pretty classless, so a healthy Fred was a consistent quality starter, something neither of these two have proven to be

Andersen lost his net prior to his alleged injury, and came back to a Campbell who was still playing excellent hockey. There was nothing classless about it. It was the natural reaction to Campbell playing very well as well as the continued regression of Andersens game in the last 2 seasons.

Also Freddy getting beat 5 hole was actually very common place to the point that he was even nicknamed Five Hole Freddy by many.

I agree with you on the first point however. Things right now are worse than any point Andersen gave us.

 

[29Potvin]

Fred never had a stretch like this. Every goalie gives up a softie now and then, but I don't recall Andersen getting beat 4 hole 5 hole 3 hole every hole consistently like these 2 are.

Also fred was injured and they took the net from him when he came back, that was pretty classless, so a healthy Fred was a consistent quality starter, something neither of these two have proven to be

Here's a post from B/R artical from 2015

While it’s a wildly unpopular and all-too-common practice to blame the goalie for any and all losses in the NHL, Andersen definitely deserves some of the blame for his Ducks missing out on two opportunities to eliminate the Blackhawks after taking a 3-2 series lead.
Ultimately, he proved to be Unsteady Freddie.

Take the eventual series-winning goal into evidence. Having made an initial stop on Brad Richards, Andersen went to sweep the puck toward the boards but sent it right to a charging Marian Hossa. Hossa needed only to redirect the puck with his right skate for the Hawks’ fourth goal of the game—the game winner. The series winner.

So tell me how the same issues that Fred had in 2015 and that he showed in every playoff series with the Leaf's were magically going to change this year?
Soup took the net from Fred and the Leafs

 

[saltming]

Perhaps, and Freddy was a quality goaltender, but everyone had lost confidence in him, to not let in that one back breaking goal. The fan base wanted him gone, including the majority here, and he had a few too many playoff series, where he was second best. Given what's transpired, sure, we'd love to have Freddy back, but that change was necessary, it just hasn't worked out.

Maybe. On here for sure the armchair pundits were ruled against him, but I never heard a ything about that feeling from the locker room. That said, the way they handled him at the end make it seem like management wanted to move away from the m him.
As for his playoffs, the could be wrong, but wasn't his sv% better that .920?
It seems the high powered offense failed

 

[saltming]

Andersen lost his net prior to his alleged injury, and came back to a Campbell who was still playing excellent hockey. There was nothing classless about it. It was the natural reaction to Campbell playing very well as well as the continued regression of Andersens game in the last 2 seasons.

Also Freddy getting beat 5 hole was actually very common place to the point that he was even nicknamed Five Hole Freddy by many.

I agree with you on the first point however. Things right now are worse than any point Andersen gave us.

I don't know if he lost the net previous to his ir. Imo he had been the undisputed starter for that season and every season before and to surplant him after coming back for injury? I would not call that a good thing.
Yes he got beat 5 hole and it was bad when he was with injury, but even then his fundamentals were still better than the 2 we have now. These guys also leak in every other hole.
If only penicillin would fix that leaky problem too

 

[saltming]

Here's a post from B/R artical from 2015

While it’s a wildly unpopular and all-too-common practice to blame the goalie for any and all losses in the NHL, Andersen definitely deserves some of the blame for his Ducks missing out on two opportunities to eliminate the Blackhawks after taking a 3-2 series lead.
Ultimately, he proved to be Unsteady Freddie.

Take the eventual series-winning goal into evidence. Having made an initial stop on Brad Richards, Andersen went to sweep the puck toward the boards but sent it right to a charging Marian Hossa. Hossa needed only to redirect the puck with his right skate for the Hawks’ fourth goal of the game—the game winner. The series winner.

So tell me how the same issues that Fred had in 2015 and that he showed in every playoff series with the Leaf's were magically going to change this year?
Soup took the net from Fred and the Leafs

And soups OT softies?
I remember that play with Andersen and in the thickof it shit happens. Letting in a soft writer from the point with no screen, no tip is a different level bad.
Every goalie let's in bad goals that's why I try to look at their fundamentals if I'm trying to judge them.
Fred has good fundamentals.

That said I've also always said I would love to upgrade on Andersen, but we didn't, thus far it appears we downgraded. Imo it was a silly gamble as, we are now seeing, goaltending is the most valuable position.
Campbell had a great run and a meh playoffs, judging from the softies he let in. He was and is still unproven as a starter. It would have made more sense to run Fred again, then this season split the net and gradually phase feed out once you're comfortable that Campbell could manage the workload.
I like what Dubas has done for this organization and I'm far from a hater, but this Imo was a huge gaff

 

[Havoc]

Perhaps, and Freddy was a quality goaltender, but everyone had lost confidence in him, to not let in that one back breaking goal. The fan base wanted him gone, including the majority here, and he had a few too many playoff series, where he was second best. Given what's transpired, sure, we'd love to have Freddy back, but that change was necessary, it just hasn't worked out.

How hard is it to be second best in 19/20 when your team only scores 10 goals on 188 shots on the other goalie(s)? If we could finish better that series, suddenly Fred isn't second best any more.

If Fred puts up a .940 save % he's still second best in that series so what does saying he was second best really accomplish? Bottom line he gave the Leafs a chance to win and they didn't deliver. Only 3 forwards were able to score more than 1 goal and only 5 forwards got on the board period. 8 goals in 5 games from the forwards.

I don't see the big deal being second best goalie against Boston in 18/19. That wasn't a true round 1 to me, whichever team won that series was headed to the cup finals. They were the clear cut best 2 East teams in the playoffs that year. Far cry from the playoff type team we're sending in this season.

They fell for the one injury / covid plagued north division year. That's all it is. We keep looking for a way to sugar coat it when in actuality it's a huge L.

 

[Shooter2x]

How hard is it to be second best in 19/20 when your team only scores 10 goals on 188 shots on the other goalie(s)? If we could finish better that series, suddenly Fred isn't second best any more.

If Fred puts up a .940 save % he's still second best in that series so what does saying he was second best really accomplish? Bottom line he gave the Leafs a chance to win and they didn't deliver. Only 3 forwards were able to score more than 1 goal and only 5 forwards got on the board period. 8 goals in 5 games from the forwards.

I don't see the big deal being second best goalie against Boston in 18/19. That wasn't a true round 1 to me, whichever team won that series was headed to the cup finals. They were the clear cut best 2 East teams in the playoffs that year. Far cry from the playoff type team we're sending in this season.

They fell for the one injury / covid plagued north division year. That's all it is. We keep looking for a way to sugar coat it when in actuality it's a huge L.

Wow what happened after 2019. Out of the teams left after round 1, Leafs would have been second in hits per game and would have finished first in hits per game with Kadri back from suspension.

 

[Havoc]

Wow what happened after 2019. Out of the teams left after round 1, Leafs would have been second in hits per game and would have finished first in hits per game with Kadri back from suspension.

Finger print of 3 GMs were on that team so it had a good balance + our best players were on ELC.

Anyway that's not the focus. The focus is on it's no shame being second best when you faced the best in 2019. Player evaluation has been a disaster since that series that's why we can't get a save today among other issues.

 

[Fogelhund]

Maybe. On here for sure the armchair pundits were ruled against him, but I never heard a ything about that feeling from the locker room. That said, the way they handled him at the end make it seem like management wanted to move away from the m him.
As for his playoffs, the could be wrong, but wasn't his sv% better that .920?
It seems the high powered offense failed

It was a combo of things. Last year, that was a failure of Tavares out, and Matthews wrist injury... and yet, Andersen still seemed to let in a couple of back breaking goals. It's more of those singular bad goals here and there, as well as not so good Game 7's. Seven goals against in 2018 (0.829), Five against in 2019 (.900), Three in 2020 (0.905), and a (.909) in Game seven in 2021.

He was subpar in the games that mattered most.

 

[Shooter2x]

Finger print of 3 GMs were on that team so it had a good balance + our best players were on ELC.

Anyway that's not the focus. The focus is on it's no shame being second best when you faced the best in 2019. Player evaluation has been a disaster since that series that's why we can't get a save today among other issues.

That was the year Trevor Moore knocked down Chara right? Good times.

I agree with you. Using 2019 as a reason to choose Campbell over Fred is like taking a mustang over a ferrari just because the Ferrari lost a race to a Lambo.

 

[29Potvin]

And soups OT softies?
I remember that play with Andersen and in the thickof it shit happens. Letting in a soft writer from the point with no screen, no tip is a different level bad.
Every goalie let's in bad goals that's why I try to look at their fundamentals if I'm trying to judge them.
Fred has good fundamentals.

That said I've also always said I would love to upgrade on Andersen, but we didn't, thus far it appears we downgraded. Imo it was a silly gamble as, we are now seeing, goaltending is the most valuable position.
Campbell had a great run and a meh playoffs, judging from the softies he let in. He was and is still unproven as a starter. It would have made more sense to run Fred again, then this season split the net and gradually phase feed out once you're comfortable that Campbell could manage the workload.
I like what Dubas has done for this organization and I'm far from a hater, but this Imo was a huge gaff

I agree that soup isnt the answer. After last playoffs the Leafs needed a mentally strong goalie going forward. Moving on from Fred and bringing in a guy that could push Soup but also had a strong history. The team is full of mentally weak players that when the going gets tough they break. Our bottom six are not heart and soul guys that win or can will a team forward when the top 6 are getting shutdown. Look at how Bolts had to learn to win and the GM recognized issued and made the required changes. I also am a fan of KD and how he has moved/redeemed bad personal decisions i'm just not sure he can fix the goaltending before another first round exit
Both Fred and Soup have been mentally soft for years.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

I'd say we're stuck with our current goaltending for the remainder of the season. Sad but true.
The next guy can hopefully fix it this summer and maybe even work out a new, long overdue, goalie drafting and development strategy.

 

[ECanuck]

I'd say we're stuck with our current goaltending for the remainder of the season. Sad but true.
The next guy can hopefully fix it this summer and maybe even work out a new, long overdue, goalie drafting and development strategy.

We need a good goalie now. At least something decent with mental toughness considered an asset.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

We need a good goalie now. At least something decent with mental toughness considered an asset.

I don't see much out there, not that i'm an insider or anything. The way the season is playing out i'd be okay with not squandering more assets to somewhat upgrade what is a flawed team. I am confident that we have a new gm this summer who hopefully ( i believe ownership will insist on it ) has a plan to change the identity of the team. That means significant changes which will require a lot of assets. An identity change is IMO the much more critical path forward as opposed to attempting to prop the current group up for an unlikely run.
Lets save our assets for that.

 

[therealkoho]

It will def cost us 1st place, so it's already inflicted real consequences , not to mention the drop in team confidence/belief which is HUGE and this team cannot afford.

If something doesn't change, it will cost us the first round.

 

[griffon1]

We won't get out of the first round with these two but we've probably got too many holes anyway. I just don't see how we get a #1 D, goalie, and 2nd line winger.

Hopefully we don't make last year's mistakes and give up a whole lot for the ghost of a guy who helped eliminate us in a previous year.