Geoff Molson 2012 vs 2016 vs 2018 singing the same old song

[lo striver]

Just let him run the financial side of the team, which he's done very well. He's just way too loyal to management to a fault.

by giving MB a ridiculous extension he kind of shown that he cannot even manage the financial side. just sit there, smile, touch nothing, Geoff.

 

[PaulD]

I truly believe Molson cares. I think he really wants to build a winning team and have that legacy for himself.

The problem is I think he's been way too trusting in Bergevin. I don't get it, because the fans in general seem to be well aware of it, but I guess it's either a blind spot or stubbornness that he made the decision to bring in MB and doesn't want to let go.

Until he does, we're stuck singing the same old song, and I'm afraid this off-season will be more of the same. Hopefully the patience will finally run out before we lose too many more seasons.

Millions care.

care that something gets done about the man putting this team in the cellar.

But only one can replace him with a competent manager.

 

[PaulD]

by giving MB a ridiculous extension he kind of shown that he cannot even manage the financial side. just sit there, smile, touch nothing, Geoff.

Yea, feels like the team is being held hostage.

By the two guys from Dog Day Afternoon

 

[WickedPegJets]

As President of Les Canadiens, Molson has been a big flop. Because he is still paying the fired Therrien, his mistake in agreeing to hire Claude Julien and extending Bergevin’s contract by five years, he is loathed to fire both Julien and Bergy and having to pay them severance pay amounting to over $30M and look like the dumbest owner in the NHL.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

It's funny because I think the problem is Geoff, not MB.

It's simple:

Either MB sucks and you need to fire him.

OR

MB doesn't and you're forcing the team in a direction of false competitiveness to keep making money.

 

[Runner77]

They're having excuses for EVERYONE in the upper management. "It's not fair to fire Sly, we took some players away from him". "It's not fair to hold it against Timmins if the drafts weren't very good, we used some picks to make the playoffs". "I have no yesmen, there's f words in meetings". As if all the other teams don't face the same challenges and realities.

The F-bomb comment was incredibly dumb. It's so not indicative of a substantive opposing point of view. Maybe there are F-bombs at his meetings cause he's surrounded himself with neanderthals, it's not an indication of logical argumentation or a contrarian view supported by convincing analysis. Bet you this is what MB is going to use as one of his main argument not to let go of too many of his buddies -- hey, they throw F-bombs.

 

[Kriss E]

It's funny because I think the problem is Geoff, not MB.

It's simple:

Either MB sucks and you need to fire him.

OR

MB doesn't and you're forcing the team in a direction of false competitiveness to keep making money.

They both are.
I don't think Molson is forcing Bergevin in any direction. At least he wasn't unless you are talking about giving into Subban's demands, or the likes.
He is not the one who told Bergevin to have a contract dispute with PK right off the bat though. I don't think he tells him to go after Ott or Shaw. He is not the one telling him to play hardball with Radu and Markov, to let them go and to sign Streit and Hemsky.

Molson has done a terrible job overseeing Bergevin, mostly because he obviously knows jack crap about hockey.
But Bergevin is the one selecting his guys and directing the team, he's done an absolute brutal job.

So they both suck.

 

[NORiculous]

He is not the one telling him to play hardball with Radu and Markov, to let them go and to sign Streit and Hemsky.

I'm sure Radu is happy with his new team, dominating the playoffs and all.

In the end, he did choose another team for a similar offer.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm sure Radu is happy with his new team, dominating the playoffs and all.

In the end, he did choose another team for a similar offer.

Okay...?...
Not sure what this has to do with the decision from Bergevin not to pursue more aggressively or plan a proper back up plan.

 

[NORiculous]

Okay...?...
Not sure what this has to do with the decision from Bergevin not to pursue more aggressively or plan a proper back up plan.

It has nothing to do with the backup plan since there isn't the appeareance of one except for the fact that Molson and MB keep saying there is a plan. I just wanted to underline that it takes two to tango. In the end, Radu choose another team, its happens all the time.

But since you mention it, MB just said on the radio (91.9) that he was in on all negociations for C that moved this year. (Duchene, Turris, etc.) He also has the reputation that be active on the phone. So in fact he did pursue all possibilities.

The other question which needs to be asked is, WHY do players prefere other teams. In the same Radu case, I feel the reason he switched is because he had more confidence in Dallas then MTL winning in the playoffs. Fairly simple. However, I can't quote Radu on that but I remember hearing him say it. (although I am paraphrasing as he didnt directly speak negativly of MTL)

So, if MB is perceived by the players as someone that can't build a good team or not as good as another, they probably will want to play somewhere else. The Radu comment is what comes the closest I have seen to that but for all I know it could be for a different reason, such as he didn't like the coach, grass is greener, etc.

I would also add that MB is in a hard spot because EVERYone knows he needs a #1C. I know its not the same but in my pool, when that happens to a pooler, he gets painted in the corner and he needs to overpay; unless someone else has a match for a need and is also painted in the corner. That situation was painted long before MB. It probably happened when Houle traded Damphousse and Turgeon; and the Habs are still there today, after 4 GMs. So, I don't think its all on MB, no.

If Gainey, Gauthier and Savard were able to get jobs in the NHL after being GM in MTL and they weren't able to fix it, that says something too, IMO.

As fans, we were lucky Gainey stepped in to draft, a little off the board, Price (and protect him afterwards) because Savard wanted Brule... that would have been brutal.

But to get back to MB, I think he probably has too many flaws to be a GM in the east (but it might work in the west). However, it is FAR too easy to say they all suck all the time, lets get a new toy.

 

[Kriss E]

It has nothing to do with the backup plan since there isn't the appeareance of one except for the fact that Molson and MB keep saying there is a plan. I just wanted to underline that it takes two to tango. In the end, Radu choose another team, its happens all the time.

That's right, it happens all the time, that is why you need to be ready for this very common reality. Not sit on your ass, hold a press conference saying you did your part, wait, watch them sign elsewhere, and then be stuck holding nothing but your dick in your hands.

But since you mention it, MB just said on the radio (91.9) that he was in on all negociations for C that moved this year. (Duchene, Turris, etc.) He also has the reputation that be active on the phone. So in fact he did pursue all possibilities.

Who cares? Always so active on the phones and in on every trade...where has that lead us? Straight to nowhere. So who gives a flying f*** that he's in on all the trades. We still wake up tomorrow with holes everywhere.
Sorry man, I don't believe in this "participation trophy" attitude. It's a loser's game.
If this was one year, fine, but he's been here for 6 freaking years.

The other question which needs to be asked is, WHY do players prefere other teams. In the same Radu case, I feel the reason he switched is because he had more confidence in Dallas then MTL winning in the playoffs. Fairly simple. However, I can't quote Radu on that but I remember hearing him say it. (although I am paraphrasing as he didnt directly speak negativly of MTL)

As you said, this happens all the time, so it doesn't matter why Radu chose Dallas, all that matters is we lost our 2nd best scorer up front and we had nobody with his skillset+style to replace him. So we needed to have a back up plan. Getting Drouin was good if it meant adding to it. Swapping him for Radu while paying Sergachev was completely moronic and utterly pointless.

So, if MB is perceived by the players as someone that can't build a good team or not as good as another, they probably will want to play somewhere else. The Radu comment is what comes the closest I have seen to that but for all I know it could be for a different reason, such as he didn't like the coach, grass is greener, etc.

I have no idea what players think or perceive of Bergevin. I care and look at his decisions regarding the team and how he handles himself publicly. He fails and has been failing on both count for a while now.

I would also add that MB is in a hard spot because EVERYone knows he needs a #1C. I know its not the same but in my pool, when that happens to a pooler, he gets painted in the corner and he needs to overpay; unless someone else has a match for a need and is also painted in the corner. That situation was painted long before MB. It probably happened when Houle traded Damphousse and Turgeon; and the Habs are still there today, after 4 GMs. So, I don't think its all on MB, no.

That's BS.
First, he drafted a center 3rd overall and kept him on the wing for 4 years. They decided to stick with Plek-DD as their duo. That is his own doing. Ya, now it's obvious Montreal needs a top center. So be it. What is the alternative? Keep waiting as we have since..what? the Damphousse and Turgeon days? So wait for another 20 years? We just traded Subban, for an older less overall effective Dman. Then we trade our only blue chip prospect for a top 6 winger. Is that any better?
Overpay for that top legit center. I would have no problem with that.

Let's not pretend like poor old Bergevin was put in such a terrible position and he's stuck. This is his own doing.

If Gainey, Gauthier and Savard were able to get jobs in the NHL after being GM in MTL and they weren't able to fix it, that says something too, IMO.

As fans, we were lucky Gainey stepped in to draft, a little off the board, Price (and protect him afterwards) because Savard wanted Brule... that would have been brutal.

But to get back to MB, I think he probably has too many flaws to be a GM in the east (but it might work in the west). However, it is FAR too easy to say they all suck all the time, lets get a new toy.

And it's far too easy to say "oh..just fans being unhappy and unfairly wanting their GM fired again.".
Bergevin has done a terrible job. We are picking in the top 10 for 2 out of the last 3 years. The other season over that stretch, he was forced to fire his coach, that he had just extended.

The guy has done a terrible job. That's why people want him gone. Not because they just irrationally want a new GM for the sake of change.

 

[NORiculous]

First, he drafted a center 3rd overall and kept him on the wing for 4 years. They decided to stick with Plek-DD as their duo. That is his own doing. Ya, now it's obvious Montreal needs a top center. So be it. What is the alternative? Keep waiting as we have since..what? the Damphousse and Turgeon days? So wait for another 20 years? We just traded Subban, for an older less overall effective Dman. Then we trade our only blue chip prospect for a top 6 winger. Is that any better?
Overpay for that top legit center. I would have no problem with that.

Let's not pretend like poor old Bergevin was put in such a terrible position and he's stuck. This is his own doing.

Yes and no.

Yes the PK trade is bad.
I like Drouin and still shtin khe will be a very good player, although it did not adress the needs of the team.

I'm not saying MB is a stud or even Gainey level... but he is not Houle. And we are in this mess since Houle and no one that has been the Habs gM since has been able to fix it, MB included.

 

[Kriss E]

Yes and no.

Yes the PK trade is bad.
I like Drouin and still shtin khe will be a very good player, although it did not adress the needs of the team.

I'm not saying MB is a stud or even Gainey level... but he is not Houle. And we are in this mess since Houle and no one that has been the Habs gM since has been able to fix it, MB included.

You are right, he is worse than Houle.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

They both are.
I don't think Molson is forcing Bergevin in any direction. At least he wasn't unless you are talking about giving into Subban's demands, or the likes.
He is not the one who told Bergevin to have a contract dispute with PK right off the bat though. I don't think he tells him to go after Ott or Shaw. He is not the one telling him to play hardball with Radu and Markov, to let them go and to sign Streit and Hemsky.

Molson has done a terrible job overseeing Bergevin, mostly because he obviously knows jack crap about hockey.
But Bergevin is the one selecting his guys and directing the team, he's done an absolute brutal job.

So they both suck.

Maybe Molson is like Kruger, George's boss in Seinfeld.
It certainly sounds like that.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The F-bomb comment was incredibly dumb. It's so not indicative of a substantive opposing point of view. Maybe there are F-bombs at his meetings cause he's surrounded himself with neanderthals, it's not an indication of logical argumentation or a contrarian view supported by convincing analysis. Bet you this is what MB is going to use as one of his main argument not to let go of too many of his buddies -- hey, they throw F-bombs.

Michel is probably the one who started the ball rolling.

MB "do wee sign Subban long term"

Dinosaur "**** no! I gotta make him a better person first"

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

He didn't play the game so has no knowledge of what it takes to win at hockey. He inherited the Molson empire so has never had to build a business. He's got an arts degree and a MBA, there's a million people with those credentials that will never catch a whiff of being the President of an NHL team

What other CEOs/Team Presidents have no clue about hockey ops or sports in general and have nobody between them and the GM to provide guidance?

 

[BLONG7]

He didn't play the game so has no knowledge of what it takes to win at hockey. He inherited the Molson empire so has never had to build a business. He's got an arts degree and a MBA, there's a million people with those credentials that will never catch a whiff of being the President of an NHL team

What other CEOs/Team Presidents have no clue about hockey ops or sports in general and have nobody between them and the GM to provide guidance?

This, is the BIG issue, there needs to be another body in between the owner and the GM. We simply have a good guy owner, who is way to trusting with his clown GM. We need a real hockey guy in the President's role...the proof is in the results over the last 3-4 seasons...

 

[NotProkofievian]

He didn't play the game so has no knowledge of what it takes to win at hockey. He inherited the Molson empire so has never had to build a business. He's got an arts degree and a MBA, there's a million people with those credentials that will never catch a whiff of being the President of an NHL team

What other CEOs/Team Presidents have no clue about hockey ops or sports in general and have nobody between them and the GM to provide guidance?

Well, I really wouldn't mind someone who has no experience in the game, so long as this person were inquisitive, and demonstrated the ability to sort truth from falsehood. I don't get this impression from Molson.

As an example, that bullshit about the 4 100 point seasons. It's terrible reasoning. It might be just a talking point to placate the rubes, but there's the possibility that he really believes in that level of analysis. That represents dangerous incuriosity.

 

[Captain Mountain]

He didn't play the game so has no knowledge of what it takes to win at hockey. He inherited the Molson empire so has never had to build a business. He's got an arts degree and a MBA, there's a million people with those credentials that will never catch a whiff of being the President of an NHL team

What other CEOs/Team Presidents have no clue about hockey ops or sports in general and have nobody between them and the GM to provide guidance?

Off the top of my head, the Lighting don't have a president of Hockey Ops. Yzerman basically has the same title as Bergevin (although he's also an alternate governor) and Yzerman answers to Griggs (CEO) and Vinik (Owner/Chairman), neither of whom are hockey guys.

Also, Unless Lemieux actually participates in decisions (which I don't think he does), Rutherford is the top hockey guy in Pittsburgh.

The problem isn't that Molson isn't a hockey guy, its that he trusts Bergevin more than he probably should. The org structure Montreal uses, at least at the top end, has worked in the past. The problem is that the guys they have in place might not be up to the task.

There's a good article in the Athletic about the Wings post-mortem where Holland talks about the fact that he needs to look at changing hockey-ops (and how Babcock speaks to Lou about constantly adding smart guys to the front office). Detroit used to have Nill, Yzerman, Verbeek (AGM in Tampa), and Scotty B in their front office. That's a lot of smart hockey guys that left that have had success in other markets.

Even more than Bergevin's incoherence when speaking to anybody that isn't fawning over him and his misguided fixation on character or attitude or whatever synonymous descriptor he's using, I can't stand his unwillingness to shake up the personnel in hockey ops. I get not wanting to fire people, but its hard to look at the groups track record and think that no changes need to be made. A fresh voice or voices, different backgrounds, and under-served POVs. And that's not going to questions about is information being used properly.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Off the top of my head, the Lighting don't have a president of Hockey Ops. Yzerman basically has the same title as Bergevin (although he's also an alternate governor) and Yzerman answers to Griggs (CEO) and Vinik (Owner/Chairman), neither of whom are hockey guys.

Also, Unless Lemieux actually participates in decisions (which I don't think he does), Rutherford is the top hockey guy in Pittsburgh.

The problem isn't that Molson isn't a hockey guy, its that he trusts Bergevin more than he probably should. The org structure Montreal uses, at least at the top end, has worked in the past. The problem is that the guys they have in place might not be up to the task.

There's a good article in the Athletic about the Wings post-mortem where Holland talks about the fact that he needs to look at changing hockey-ops (and how Babcock speaks to Lou about constantly adding smart guys to the front office). Detroit used to have Nill, Yzerman, Verbeek (AGM in Tampa), and Scotty B in their front office. That's a lot of smart hockey guys that left that have had success in other markets.

Even more than Bergevin's incoherence when speaking to anybody that isn't fawning over him and his misguided fixation on character or attitude or whatever synonymous descriptor he's using, I can't stand his unwillingness to shake up the personnel in hockey ops. I get not wanting to fire people, but its hard to look at the groups track record and think that no changes need to be made. A fresh voice or voices, different backgrounds, and under-served POVs. And that's not going to questions about is information being used properly.

Great points. One of the owners of a company I work with a lot uses the term 'Curious' in explaining his success. Basically he asks questions of his team - and that's everyone from his GM to the mailroom guy - until he's satisfied they actually know what they're doing and they are aligned with his goals. It quickly weeds out the impostors and leaves no doubt on what the priorities are. 'Trust but verify' is basically his motto.