WC: General Talk '14 — Finland

[FiLe]

Not brother but that's ok

I'm still trying to understand how we ended up with 3 lines of grinders. Erkka's usually been a skill coach so this is baffling. I also don't know what he thought he would get out of OJ with linemates like that considering there's probably no other Finnish coach who knows OJ better than him. With Erkka's recent logic I won't be surprised if Haula ends up on the 4th line.

For the one time I try not to be racially indiscriminating, it backfires...

Yeah, I've been trying to make sense of it too. Only somewhat reasonable explanation I can come to is a combination of bad luck and Erkka having a different view on some players.

Let's keep in mind that we "lost" Aaltonen even before the games began. Okay, Erkka replaced him with another skill guy when he took Palola, so the ratio essentially remained the same. However, then we lost Jormakka and he's not fully a grinder either.

Finally, while we think players like Komarov, Pakarinen and Salomäki as nothing but grinders, Erkka might actually see some hidden skill in them. Or not so hidden actually, if you look at their club team stats. Before the games began, I suspected that Erkka might see some Tuomo Ruutu lite in Salomäki.

Let's keep in mind that in Sochi, OJ was starting the games with Korpikoski and Ruutu and not being half bad with them - so it's not entirely unreasonable to assume Erkka thought it might work here too. Well, it didn't - pretty obviously for the reason that those two are high-level NHLers and you can just place two Euro/AHL substitutes in their stead and expect similar results. I don't want to dis Komarov, but he might need some more time in the NHL to get on the same page.

Looking at tonight's lineup, I have to say though that Erkka is not completely thick. It's a pretty clear indicator that he's come into realization that the stuff he's planned has backfired royally. A little too late, but eh, better late than never. I'm just happy there's finally an interesting lineup and also that we seem to have averted the relegation threat, so I can just put my feet up and enjoy the rest of the games no matter what happens.

 

[rduck1]

Wirtanen is out for the whole tournament.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/westerlund_wirtasen_mm-kisat_ohi/7245652

 

[Sleeptalker*]

Too bad too sad.

A rather skilful workin' horse in his own way lost for Finland.

But just for Finland-another-brother Tomi Sallinen to step in his (horse-) shoes and give Finland the Blues in the fourth line!

 

[JJTT]

Wirtanen is out for the whole tournament.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/westerlund_wirtasen_mm-kisat_ohi/7245652

Not a big loss, T.Sallinen was really good yesterday and Haula/Lehterä can play center if Sallinen fails.

 

[rduck1]

Not a big loss, T.Sallinen was really good yesterday and Haula/Lehterä can play center if Sallinen fails.

Yep, glad to see the Huhtala-Sallinen-Sallinen unit back together. Even though they are all players I'd have preferred to cut in favor of more skilled individuals, it's a very effective line with good chemistry.

 

[Periwinkle]

Not brother but that's ok

I'm still trying to understand how we ended up with 3 lines of grinders. Erkka's usually been a skill coach so this is baffling.

Like FiLe pointed out in part it was a sum of many elements unfortunately coming together. As I watched the game against Belarus I did briefly wonder how Keränen and TT would have handled the game, I mean there wasn't necessarily that many hits but the way Belarus forced us to grind in the corners -and us forcing the same on them. What I mean is, Erkka's disfavoring of talent for strenght looks even worse than it is because he cut two skill players at the last moment, since they unfortunately both happened to lack physicality. Now, I think Erkka overdid it with the roles (Team Suisse has a 17 yo in the lineup, and seems to do okay....) -the decision not to have one of the extra forwards a skill player is particularly baffling, and one that is now costing us- but it's not all Erkka's fault, how this played out.

It will be interesting to see what happens if Haula brings it, i.e. does Erkka have the guts to move OJ from the 2C spot down a line/ to the wing.

 

[rduck1]

So we're probably going to the playoff rounds now, and we have another scoring line. Rinne could maybe even steal a medal in his current form, so maybe it won't be as disappointing as it seemed.

 

[Periwinkle]

I'm still pessimistic about any medal.This game did show improvement, it was good to see OJ finally come to life a bit. Now it's not all 1st line, even if along with Rinne Kontiola was again our best player. Lehterä must have a huge monkey on his back, just can't get his game working. Palola is not terrible but really not NT first line material. Can't think of anyone else to replace him with though.

Haula was good, definitely a welcome addition. It was kind of odd how Erkka played him, Saukkonen mentioned he had the most ice time out of forwards, was put to shoot (as the third shooter), thrown in at 4-3 PP on OT without having practised with the team, all this while he still must suffer from jetlag...and his father (in Iltalehti) said the reason Haula hesitated for a bit if he should come was just because he feared all the pressure of being one of the sole NHL helps.

 

[Namejs]

So we're probably going to the playoff rounds now

Not necessarily. Your chances are not bad, but the group stage is far from over. It might not be enough with just 3 points in the remaining 2 games for you guys.

 

[rduck1]

Not necessarily. Your chances are not bad, but the group stage is far from over. It might not be enough with just 3 points in the remaining 2 games for you guys.

This is what probably means, no?

 

[Namejs]

This is what probably means, no?

It's usually used as equivalent to 'highly likely' or 'almost certainly'.

 

[Kibe]

If Jormakka comes back(any news?) i hope he gets a place in the other scoring line.

Haula brought great energy to 2nd line, and those passes! But Leksa still seemed somehow off there, he`s an NHL level bottom 6 player but i dont see his strenght`s getting utilize fully now. Yes he took faceoffs when OJ was called off but Haula can do that too, and i know he plays top6 in Dynamo and we have plenny of grinders but still i want to see the good old Leksa now.

If Jormakka would get at least a game before QF i hope Erkka would use him.
Savinainen would be first on the trigger... then possibly Salomäki.

I base this on the sniper needed in the 2nd line even if that`s a liiga sniper(dam we got that on the 1st too) and 3rd line needs Komarov. 4th line was fine.

So i hope in that situaiton Erkka would consider this:

Lehterä - Kontiola - Palola
Haula - Jokinen - Jormakka
Komarov - Immonen - Pakarinen
Huhtala - Sallinen - Sallinen

 

[Mara]

If Jormakka comes back(any news?) i hope he gets a place in the other scoring line.

Haula brought great energy to 2nd line, and those passes! But Leksa still seemed somehow off there

It's easy to agree with this. I haven't seen Komarov in KHL so I don't know how he plays there but he is useless in the second line. That line needs someone with hands. Komarov killed the play multiple times against the Swiss. Jormakka is a possibility but I don't know if he'll play in the tourney anymore so as things currently stand there's not a single winger with great hands in the team.

 

[FiLe]

This is what probably means, no?

Russia's running with it, but there are four teams in contention for the remaining three spots.

The magical amount here is 12 points. We reach that, we can't be usurped. But there are four teams that can realistically reach that minimum - Finland, USA, Latvia and Belarus.


Let's presume that Finland takes 3 points from Kazakhstan (Raipe & Atu help here). That would put us at 11.

Latvia plays Russia, Belarus and Switzerland. They can realistically get 12 by exploiting the last two. Even 11 might be enough because they've got our scalp.

Belarus plays Latvia, Germany and Russia. Beat the first two in regulation, and they get to 12.

USA plays Finland and Germany. They can get to 11 by beating our guys, which would also put us behind them. They could even afford to lose to Germany then and make it to the QFs.


So, if USA beats us in regulation, Belarus beats both Latvia and Germany in regulation, and Latvia gets at least two points from Switzerland... we're fifth and out of the QFs.


Grab at least a point from USA and we're technically in. Belarus can get to 12 too, but then the tie-breaker goes to us. However, if Belarus loses points to Germany tomorrow or Latvia on Monday, we can make it just by beating the Borats.

 

[Periwinkle]

If Jormakka comes back(any news?) i hope he gets a place in the other scoring line.

One of the tabloids said team doctor was against him playing. He had a concussion less than a week ago, second one in a short period of time might be career-ending. Can't see it on the website, must have been on the paper version.

 

[rduck1]

So, if USA beats us in regulation, Belarus beats both Latvia and Germany in regulation, and Latvia gets at least two points from Switzerland... we're fifth and out of the QFs.

And I think it is more likely that all these don't happen. Hence, we're probably going to advance. Not definitely, not 99%, but the odds are in our favour. Also, thanks for figuring out all the scenarios .

In other news: Jormakka participated in practice today. He may even play against USA on Sunday. Wirtanen on the other hand has gone home.

 

[FiLe]

And I think it is more likely that all these don't happen. Hence, we're probably going to advance. Not definitely, not 99%, but the odds are in our favour. Also, thanks for figuring out all the scenarios .

No prob. However, I don't think there are any long shots among those chances. The scenario where we're fifth can happen.

BLR is playing at home and that is a huge boost for them, as we saw when they played against our guys. Also, Zepp or Masalskis is no Rinne.

USA vs. Finland looks like a crapshoot at the moment. Neither side has been completely convincing.

The Swiss are most likely playing for nothing but honor in their final game. Latvia however will most likely want best possible seeding for the QFs.


The sad thing is that there's still a part of me that kinda wishes this would happen. This squad is not going to win gold anyway, not with a D like that. It could have been better, but Erkka got cute/lazy with his scouting/favored his own Jokerit signings, whatever. Too late of course to hope that the current management would learn anything from this, but it would send a clear signal to KJ & Jere Lehtinen: Leave no stone unturned while building the squad.

 

[JJTT]

Jormakka was on ice today said he aims to play in Kazakstan game

Salomäki is 13th forward instead of Savinainen tomorrow, I don't understand this at all unless he is injured.

 

[FiLe]

Salomäki is 13th forward instead of Savinainen tomorrow, I don't understand this at all unless he is injured.

Yeah, it's especially weird when you consider he was Erkka's highly-touted surprise pick. And now, he's been more or less reduced into the doghouse.

There just seems to be no logical thought whatsoever surrounding this squad. Of course, those whose memory reaches seven years back or more, will realize that this is nothing new with Erkka. The guy is a genius while whipping the game plan into shape, but his player management has always been... quizzical, if we wish to use a neutral term.

 

[m4tt145]

So Tomi Sallinen is playing well? Great news, will be fun to watch him playing in Sweden 14/15.

 

[Jussi]

Jormakka was on ice today said he aims to play in Kazakstan game

Salomäki is 13th forward instead of Savinainen tomorrow, I don't understand this at all unless he is injured.

Salomäki may have taken a knock yesterday as he wasn't seen after a certain point.

 

[Jussi]

So Tomi Sallinen is playing well? Great news, will be fun to watch him playing in Sweden 14/15.

Playing much better than his brother.

 

[Gaps]

Well, White Russia beat Germany in regulation. If we lose tomorrow, a QF spot will be far from a certainty. I do believe this team will make the QFs, but considering the possible QF opponents, we'd really like that 2nd place to likely avoid Canada and Sweden.

 

[Lapa]

Thread full. New thread coming up.