GDT: GDT #6 Ottawa Senators vs New York Islanders | October 26th | 7:30 PM | F/3-2 W

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,247
23,594
Didn't Barzal beat McDavid in the fastest skater competition less than 3 years ago? So unless all the up and coming players are on 'roids I don't see how we can say the younger players have surpassed Barzal skating abilities. Oh, but I remember you're the "objective" data guy. Andrei Svechnikov won last years fastest skater event at 13.699. Barzal won it in 2020 at 13.715. That's a difference of .016 seconds. If .016 seconds is the difference between then and now how can you say the game has gotten "significantly faster".

(you can all applaud now)

There's only one person holding Barzal back right now and his name rhymes with "lame".

You're right, everyone knows looking at the fastest available players is the best way to figure out the average speed of the league. We also know that skating in a circle around the rink like a speed skater shares a 1:1 relationship with speed being used during a hockey game. :nod:

We are complaining about Barzal when he's got 5 points in 6 games. This isn't the worst thing about the roster. FFS be more upset at Nelson.

Judging him on these few games I think he's been more assertive than his usually is. I like what he and Horvat have been doing and seem like they're building chemistry. Barzal has gone through short bursts of being more assertive in the past and it hasn't stuck so we'll see if he continues to trend in the right direction.
 

Osakahaus

Chillin' on Fuji
May 28, 2021
7,818
3,613
Judging him on these few games I think he's been more assertive than his usually is. I like what he and Horvat have been doing and seem like they're building chemistry. Barzal has gone through short bursts of being more assertive in the past and it hasn't stuck so we'll see if he continues to trend in the right direction.
I think this is more of what we saw last season with Barzal btw, and he's been a lot more active. Pageau has been meh so far, along with Nelson. We need those two to start doing better. I dont think we're doomed like I was going, but thats just the dread this roster can give.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,247
23,594
I think this is more of what we saw last season with Barzal btw, and he's been a lot more active. Pageau has been meh so far, along with Nelson. We need those two to start doing better. I dont think we're doomed like I was going, but thats just the dread this roster can give.

I like what I've seen from Nelson's line. They've been very noticeable and are threatening a lot when they're out on the ice. Last night might've been their worst outing as a group and they still had some chances. Nelson is too good of a shooter to not be in that 30 goal range again with that group.

Pageau just hasn't brought the offense we thought he would and it's very disappointing for me. I liked him and Lee together more than Lee on the top line but we'll see how that shakes out. He's constantly tasked with bringing along the youngsters and I think that hinders him a bit.
 
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PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,247
23,594


Rough night for Ottawa on the injury front. Their depth is going to be tested in the early going.
 

Osakahaus

Chillin' on Fuji
May 28, 2021
7,818
3,613
I like what I've seen from Nelson's line. They've been very noticeable and are threatening a lot when they're out on the ice. Last night might've been their worst outing as a group and they still had some chances. Nelson is too good of a shooter to not be in that 30 goal range again with that group.

Pageau just hasn't brought the offense we thought he would and it's very disappointing for me. I liked him and Lee together more than Lee on the top line but we'll see how that shakes out. He's constantly tasked with bringing along the youngsters and I think that hinders him a bit.
Pageau does work better with Holmstrom and Wahlstrom. I like what that line has brought. IMO Wahlstrom is gonna get his first real soon.
 

leeroggy

Registered User
Jan 3, 2010
9,442
5,748
Didn't Barzal beat McDavid in the fastest skater competition less than 3 years ago? So unless all the up and coming players are on 'roids I don't see how we can say the younger players have surpassed Barzal skating abilities. Oh, but I remember you're the "objective" data guy. Andrei Svechnikov won last years fastest skater event at 13.699. Barzal won it in 2020 at 13.715. That's a difference of .016 seconds. If .016 seconds is the difference between then and now how can you say the game has gotten "significantly faster".

(you can all applaud now)

There's only one person holding Barzal back right now and his name rhymes with "lame".

This rhymes with Lame

1698440430659.jpeg
 
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Rehabguy

Always open minded
Oct 2, 2011
5,077
1,934
I kept tell myself there's gotta be someone out there who understands what I'm asking for here and I just found this wonderful article entitled "Let's talk about Mat Barzal" which aligns closely with what I've been trying to say. The Isles have to tweak their system at least when Barzal is on the ice to take advantage of what he has to offer which means he's got to get back to scoring on the rush rather than cycling deep in the offensive zone looking to feed point men or waiting for players to get themselves open. He also noticed the difference in Barzal's play from his 2017-2018 rookie year to the way he plays now.

As the author notes, "You see him exchange with a defenseman instead of attacking the net, waiting for a play to develop instead of going off instinct and looking for the safer option."

Critically he writes, "Barzal is an oustanding player but he doesn’t have a complete profile. He is one of the best in the league at creating in transition. A low percentage of his entries led to scoring chances but from a volume standpoint, he was among the best. You’re not going to hit a home run on every shift, so Barzal having a lot of kicks at the can is a good thing, especially with this type of workload. Controlled entries lead to more scoring chances & more goals, which means you want the puck on Barzal’s stick more times than not."

In regards to zone entry Barzal has ALWAYS been one of the best that's why in his rookie year when he was allowed to play this way we noticed him on every shift. As the author writes, "for context, most players will enter the zone with control of the puck about 2-3 times a game. An average game for Barzal is about 5-6 and it’s pretty common for him to hit double digits in this stat. You might say “so what,” but it means that he’s the one commanding the play and the puck is on his stick for most of the game. Again, there aren’t a lot of guys in the NHL who can do this, even the star players. The tide has started to shift with the league’s skill level on the rise but Barzal still finds himself on an island amongst his peers."

Again it's all about taking controlled risks to create chances to score goals and the Isles drop to being one of the lowest scoring clubs in the game had a lot do with as I have been saying the system Trotz put into place. Barzals not going to score on every shift but when he was allowed to play his game no one volume wise created as many scoring chances as Barzal other than McDavid and there's objective data to support this.

Trotz did not like taking chances and the system does not encourage defensemen from joining into the rush. Like me, the author believes Dobson should be joining the rush when Barzal is on the ice. This involves risk however and as the author states, "This is a tough conundrum for coaches because in order to create some of these chances you have to survive a defensive breakdown. The Islanders play a more controlled game under Trotz and opportunities like this don’t happen as often, which is a trade-off most players will take...the team has improved and Barzal has settled in as the Isles top-line center while not reaching the heights some hoped he would get to after his rookie season. Last year, however, felt like a turning point. The team around him got weaker but instead of the games opening up, they played the same conservative way with worse results."

On Dobson he writes, "The way Dobson reads the game and always thinks offense caters to Barzal’s skillset perfectly. He’s what friend of the blog, Jack Han, would call a “sprinter” or the second guy in the rush, giving Barzal a passing option or someone to help back off the defenders even if they’re setup. It’s frustrating for the Isles because if they had another forward who played with this mindset, they would have a good running mate for Barzal." [At the time this article was written they didn't have Bo Horvat. Now they have Bo Horvat and he's a pretty good skater there's no reason they can't be scoring on rush with him as a line-mate and also a pretty accurate shooter]

Like me this author trusts in skills he writes, "I’m a firm believer in skill eventually winning out when it comes to players like Barzal. Nathan MacKinnon had a couple of years where he was stuck in that “great but not elite” tier while posting fantastic microstats. Eventually that translated to the big picture. The same goes for other stars like Gaudreau, Eichel and Barkov."

If you don't understand what I'm saying when I say we lost something in Barzal after the 2017-2018 season read this article Let's talk about Mat Barzal. The Isles need to let Barzal be Barzal and lead the Islanders offense once again with his offensive rushes. Unleash the kid!
 
Last edited:

Sparksrus3

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
10,032
4,910
I kept tell myself there's gotta be someone out there who understands what I'm asking for here and I just found this wonderful article entitled "Let's talk about Mat Barzal" which aligns closely with what I've been trying to say. The Isles have to tweak their system at least when Barzal is on the ice to take advantage of what he has to offer which means he's got to get back to scoring on the rush rather than cycling deep in the offensive zone looking to feed point men or waiting for players to get themselves open. He also noticed the difference in Barzal's play from his 2017-2018 rookie year to the way he plays now.

As the author notes, "You see him exchange with a defenseman instead of attacking the net, waiting for a play to develop instead of going off instinct and looking for the safer option."

Critically he writes, "Barzal is an oustanding player but he doesn’t have a complete profile. He is one of the best in the league at creating in transition. A low percentage of his entries led to scoring chances but from a volume standpoint, he was among the best. You’re not going to hit a home run on every shift, so Barzal having a lot of kicks at the can is a good thing, especially with this type of workload. Controlled entries lead to more scoring chances & more goals, which means you want the puck on Barzal’s stick more times than not."

In regards to zone entry Barzal has ALWAYS been one of the best that's why in his rookie year when he was allowed to play this way we noticed him on every shift. As the author writes, "for context, most players will enter the zone with control of the puck about 2-3 times a game. An average game for Barzal is about 5-6 and it’s pretty common for him to hit double digits in this stat. You might say “so what,” but it means that he’s the one commanding the play and the puck is on his stick for most of the game. Again, there aren’t a lot of guys in the NHL who can do this, even the star players. The tide has started to shift with the league’s skill level on the rise but Barzal still finds himself on an island amongst his peers."

Again it's all about taking controlled risks to create chances to score goals and the Isles drop to being one of the lowest scoring clubs in the game had a lot do with as I have been saying the system Trotz put into place. Barzals not going to score on every shift but when he was allowed to play his game no one volume wise created as many scoring chances as Barzal other than McDavid and there's objective data to support this.

Trotz did not like taking chances and the system does not encourage defensemen from joining into the rush. Like me, the author believes Dobson should be joining the rush when Barzal is on the ice. This involves risk however and as the author states, "This is a tough conundrum for coaches because in order to create some of these chances you have to survive a defensive breakdown. The Islanders play a more controlled game under Trotz and opportunities like this don’t happen as often, which is a trade-off most players will take...the team has improved and Barzal has settled in as the Isles top-line center while not reaching the heights some hoped he would get to after his rookie season. Last year, however, felt like a turning point. The team around him got weaker but instead of the games opening up, they played the same conservative way with worse results."

On Dobson he writes, "The way Dobson reads the game and always thinks offense caters to Barzal’s skillset perfectly. He’s what friend of the blog, Jack Han, would call a “sprinter” or the second guy in the rush, giving Barzal a passing option or someone to help back off the defenders even if they’re setup. It’s frustrating for the Isles because if they had another forward who played with this mindset, they would have a good running mate for Barzal." [At the time this article was written they didn't have Bo Horvat. Now they have Bo Horvat and he's a pretty good skater there's no reason they can't be scoring on rush with him as a line-mate and also a pretty accurate shooter]

Like me this author trusts in skills he writes, "I’m a firm believer in skill eventually winning out when it comes to players like Barzal. Nathan MacKinnon had a couple of years where he was stuck in that “great but not elite” tier while posting fantastic microstats. Eventually that translated to the big picture. The same goes for other stars like Gaudreau, Eichel and Barkov."

If you don't understand what I'm saying when I say we lost something in Barzal after the 2017-2018 season read this article Let's talk about Mat Barzal. The Isles need to let Barzal be Barzal and lead the Islanders offense once again with his offensive rushes. Unleash the kid!

is there a cliff notes version out there anywhere ? LGI
 

BelovedIsles

Registered User
Oct 22, 2005
20,361
5,593
Barzal isn’t going to change. I suspect we are all convinced of that.

He was arrogant in his pre-draft interviews, perhaps he needed a reality check on his skills relative to actual NHL’ers.

He’s an overpaid O zone, possession, puck entry specialist who defers to passing bc he’s afraid to try to score (he knows he isn’t a goal scorer).

I was neutral on him previously; though given his contract, and the expectations that come with said contract, I’m now in the ‘non-favorable’ faction.
 

Rehabguy

Always open minded
Oct 2, 2011
5,077
1,934
I spent a lovely evening with my wife attended a piano recital featuring Rach Concerto #2 followed by a wonderful a dish lamb kefte. I will not this night be spoiled.
 

seafoam

Soft Shock
Sponsor
May 17, 2011
60,463
9,771
I think Barzal would benefit to returning to where he had success as a rookie. If I remember correctly, Barzal was the 2C behind the Tavares line and teams gameplanned around 91’s line, which gave Barzal easier matchups and opened up space. Here’s what I suggest…

Lee-Horvat-Nelson
Engval-Barzal-Palmieri

Barzal has 1st line tools with a 2nd line toolbox.
 

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