GDT: GDT #12 New York Islanders @ Boston Bruins | November 9th | 7 PM | F/5-2 L

[Rehabguy]

So you want them to play with instinct, except not.

I want them to stop playing chess but I know that gives you the jeebies.

This is a team that plays backward, which is to say, as they head up the ice they are always receiving passes looking back into the defensive zone, then turning and dumping.

We do not head up the ice making passes to each other and rarely skate the puck, with possession, into the zone unless your name is Matt Barzal, and that is done as an individual effort not a team effort as opposed to what most teams seem to do repeatedly to us.

We dump in, chase, and then chase the opposition out of their zone as they skate into ours.

This is coaching, this is system and this is a piss poor way to play hockey.

Exactly. The other players don’t know what to do with Barzal because what he’s doing is not in Lamberts rule book. They don’t know how to create offense. That’s what 5 years of this shit does to you.

 

[MJF]

Barzal -Horvat-Wahlstrom
Engvall-Nelson-Palmieri
Holmstrom -Pageau-Fasching
Lee-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Martin
Gauthier

It is time.

That’s one of the two. Next do Martin and Clutterbuck.

I think ideally you’d have Holmstrom on the top line but Wahlstrom would kill the identity of the third line so this is what I’d go with as well.

Holmstrom only works on L1 if he asserts himself next to 14 and 13. He put himself in the back seat when he was on that line before.

 

[Tahoeblue]

Holmstrom Horvat Barzal
Engvall Nelson Palms
Lee JGP Wally
Gauthier CC Fasching

Wouldn't mind seeing the bolded line once an a while(Probably not going to happen). Wouldn't be upset if Parise(January) takes Lee's spot on third line and he goes to the 4th

 

[PK Cronin]

I want them to stop playing chess but I know that gives you the jeebies.

I generally think you don't know what you want other than wins. You're just throwing out words at this point. That's fine, you're just all over the place and it's hard to follow.

It feels like you're saying, "Don't play chess" and then when they don't you're saying, "No, not like that!"

 

[MJF]

I generally think you don't know what you want other than wins. You're just throwing out words at this point. That's fine, you're just all over the place and it's hard to follow.

It feels like you're saying, "Don't play chess" and then when they don't you're saying, "No, not like that!"

He wants us to play wide open hockey like the Devils, Leafs, Rags etc. But refuses to acknowledge we don’t have the talent to play that style.

 

[Rehabguy]

I generally think you don't know what you want other than wins. You're just throwing out words at this point. That's fine, you're just all over the place and it's hard to follow.

It feels like you're saying, "Don't play chess" and then when they don't you're saying, "No, not like that!"

You’ve defended this system, this “game of chess” ad nauseum and the results speak for themselves. Now you’re just resorting to this nonsense eh? Why just not have a discussion about what you would do? That would be more interesting than this childish drivel. No reason to provoke people just sharing an opinion.

And BTW I know exactly what I want, but clearly you want this shit show to continue. There’s no defense for this crap we see night after night yet it bothers you when someone is calling Lambert out on it.

It would be nice if YOU had any specifics of what could be done. ANY. But instead just another post meant to be provocative. This board should be about hockey not this nonsense.

 

[Rehabguy]

He wants us to play wide open hockey like the Devils, Leafs, Rags etc. But refuses to acknowledge we don’t have the talent to play that style.

No. I never said wide open. This team as you yourself said doesn’t have the BASICS down and I agreed 100%. If you don’t have the basics on how to produce offense the last thing you want to do is play wide open hockey.

Look I’m not trying to argue with anyone here. If you like what you see here; if you like what Lou has done to the team; if you like Lambert and the system of play he’s got this team playing go ahead and enjoy the show. I celebrated 4 Cup wins in my youth. I feel bad for those who will never experience what that felt like.

 

[crashthenet]

Holmstrom Horvat Barzal
Engvall Nelson Palms
Lee JGP Wally
Gauthier CC Fasching

Wouldn't mind seeing the bolded line once an a while(Probably not going to happen). Wouldn't be upset if Parise(January) takes Lee's spot on third line and he goes to the 4th

Lee, Wally, Fasching and Gauthier don't kill penalties so not sure about this.

 

[PK Cronin]

You’ve defended this system, this “game of chess” ad nauseum and the results speak for themselves. Now you’re just resorting to this nonsense eh? Why just not have a discussion about what you would do? That would be more interesting than this childish drivel. No reason to provoke people just sharing an opinion.

And BTW I know exactly what I want, but clearly you want this shit show to continue. There’s no defense for this crap we see night after night yet it bothers you when someone is calling Lambert out on it.

It would be nice if YOU had any specifics of what could be done. ANY. But instead just another post meant to be provocative. This board should be about hockey not this nonsense.

I tried to have the discussion, you didn't want to answer any questions. Remember, it was above our pay grade to provide specifics.

You've fundamentally misunderstood my position even though I've attempted to make it clear. There are areas the team needs to clean up. I defend defense first systems and structure. It's won plenty of cups for lots of different teams. That doesn't mean Lambert is doing a great job.

It doesn't bother me when someone calls him out on it. It bothers me when they're all over the place with what they're calling out. If the team loses you say it's because you were right, even when providing examples that directly contradict what you were claiming. For example, the Islanders can give up a goal in transition and you're saying it's because they're sitting back too much. The Bolduc/Aho misplay comes to mind. How can I even have a discussion with someone who refuses to see what the play actually is? Most of the time you just ignore those questions or comments and move on to the next generic thing. You keep referring to chess but haven't defined what that is. You want instincts and creativity, but now you want them to practicing offensive plays, which is the opposite of instincts. These things don't align with your previous points and it reads as if you're constantly changing what you think based off the results.

I provided you with some specifics in a previous thread of what I'd do. You ignored it. I'd break out lower in the zone and stop stretch passes, I wouldn't allow forwards to go down below the top of the circles in the defensive zone. More D to D passes before trying to push the play up the ice. The forward coming back on a 3 on 2 or 3 on 3 situation seems to attack the puck carrier even if the defenseman is there, I wouldn't do that anymore. We're seeing more give and goes from Barzal and so many of us (maybe even you) have been calling for that for years now, it's generating more chances so more of that. I'd play a heavy 2-1-2 forecheck in the offensive zone and go back to a grinding style of hockey that is heavy on cycling. These a few things that are on the easier side to correct. The issues like knowing when to switch or who to cover is probably just a communication issue and it needs to be addressed.

 

[Rehabguy]

And beyond the specifics I’ve given in regards to playing a hybrid defensive system with man on man coverage at the blue line and anchor defense when playing down low accentuated by our more offensive minded defenseman joining 3 or even 4 man rushes when the opportunity is there I’ve made the point that there is a psychology to this game and that the approach Trotz and even moreover Lambert is taking in handling this team is too stifling to creativity too much of a chokehold by stressing too much on defensive responsibilities that the players are playing in fear of making mistakes that they can’t get into the zone. They can’t play loose to create offense or manage a power play. Compounding all of this is that they rarely appear to be practicing offense. Have you ever heard Trotz or Lambert talk the creativity involved in generating offense? The problem with this team is 100% the coach, his overemphasis on a defensive system at the expense of offensive creativity. He’s benching players who are making 1 time offensive mistakes wiping away that player’s confidence.

For anyone doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say watch this video that includes our own former Islander Jason Blake. This is what I’m talking about. THIS is why the team can’t launch effective counter attacks late in the game even when they are winning by multiple goals. Lambert has them playing in so much fear of making mistakes they are turtling when they should be putting their foot on the accelerator counterattacking to maintain leads. This team has no confidence in their offensive game especially in high pressure situations late in the game. That’s the result of 5 years of indoctrination into a rigid defensive system. In the current Islanders situation it’s the coach who’s draining any bit of confidence in these players abilities by chastising them and benching them whenever they make a defensive mistake. The fear is real. It’s not imaginary so the players are losing confidence and trust in their own skills. He has them playing like ROBOTS! Jason Blake learned how to play a responsible game yet generate offense when the opportunity presented itself because Laviolette instilled confidence in his game and allowed him to trust his instincts. Exactly what Lambert and honestly but maybe to a lesser extent Trotz don’t do with the players. Watch and listen carefully.

 

[Tahoeblue]

Lee, Wally, Fasching and Gauthier don't kill penalties so not sure about this.

Solid point! Thanks for the response

 

[Steve55]

While I was pleasantly surprised to see the Isles being down 2-1 to start the third, the highlight was Holmstrom's shorty on a Bruins PP to tie the game at 2, only to have the Bruins score on the power play. While the Isles didn't get run over by the Bruins, the latter's superior skill level was very clear.

 

[PK Cronin]

And beyond the specifics I’ve given in regards to playing a hybrid defensive system with man on man coverage at the blue line and anchor defense when playing down low accentuated by our more offensive minded defenseman joining 3 or even 4 man rushes when the opportunity is there I’ve made the point that is psychology to this game and the approach that the approach Trotz and even moreover Lambert is taking in handling this team is too stifling to creativity too much of a chokehold by stressing too much on defensive responsibilities that the players are playing in fear of making mistakes that they can’t get into the zone. They can’t play loose to create offense or manage a power play. Compounding all of this is that they rarely appear to be practicing offense. Have you ever heard Trotz or Lambert talk the creativity involved in generating offense? The problem with this team is 100% the coach, his overemphasis on a defensive system at the expense of offensive creativity. He’s benching players who are making 1 time offensive mistakes wiping away that player’s confidence.

For anyone doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say watch this video that includes our own former Islander Jason Blake. This is what I’m talking about. THIS is why the team can’t launch effective counter attacks late in the game even when they are winning by multiple goals. Lambert has them playing in so much fear of making mistakes they are turtling when they should be putting their foot on the accelerator counterattacking to maintain leads. This team has no confidence in their offensive game especially in high pressure situations late in the game. That’s the result of 5 years of indoctrination into a rigid defensive system. In the current Islanders situation it’s the coach who’s draining any bit of confidence in these players abilities by chastising them and benching them whenever they a defensive mistake. The fear is real. It’s not imaginary so the players are losing confidence and trust in their own skills. He has them playing like ROBOTS! Watch and listen carefully.

I told you at the time that I appreciated the more detailed response, I was being sincere. I'll watch that video in a bit and then respond.

 

[Rehabguy]

While I was pleasantly surprised to see the Isles being down 2-1 to start the third, the highlight was Holmstrom's shorty on a Bruins PP to tie the game at 2, only to have the Bruins score on the power play. While the Isles didn't get run over by the Bruins, the latter's superior skill level was very clear.

Holstrom’s confidence in breakaways is a thing to behold but give him 2 more years under Lambert and like everyone else who shows an offensive flair he’ll soon be a shell of his former self. Better he stayed in the AHL than let this clown destroy his confidence.

 

[MarsTBOW]

And beyond the specifics I’ve given in regards to playing a hybrid defensive system with man on man coverage at the blue line and anchor defense when playing down low accentuated by our more offensive minded defenseman joining 3 or even 4 man rushes when the opportunity is there I’ve made the point that is psychology to this game and the approach that the approach Trotz and even moreover Lambert is taking in handling this team is too stifling to creativity too much of a chokehold by stressing too much on defensive responsibilities that the players are playing in fear of making mistakes that they can’t get into the zone. They can’t play loose to create offense or manage a power play. Compounding all of this is that they rarely appear to be practicing offense. Have you ever heard Trotz or Lambert talk the creativity involved in generating offense? The problem with this team is 100% the coach, his overemphasis on a defensive system at the expense of offensive creativity. He’s benching players who are making 1 time offensive mistakes wiping away that player’s confidence.

For anyone doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say watch this video that includes our own former Islander Jason Blake. This is what I’m talking about. THIS is why the team can’t launch effective counter attacks late in the game even when they are winning by multiple goals. Lambert has them playing in so much fear of making mistakes they are turtling when they should be putting their foot on the accelerator counterattacking to maintain leads. This team has no confidence in their offensive game especially in high pressure situations late in the game. That’s the result of 5 years of indoctrination into a rigid defensive system. In the current Islanders situation it’s the coach who’s draining any bit of confidence in these players abilities by chastising them and benching them whenever they a defensive mistake. The fear is real. It’s not imaginary so the players are losing confidence and trust in their own skills. He has them playing like ROBOTS! Jason Blake learned how to play a responsible game yet generate offense when the opportunity presented itself because Laviolette instilled confidence in his game and allowed him to trust his instincts. Exactly what Lambert and honestly but maybe to a lesser extent Trotz don’t do with the players. Watch and listen carefully.

Great Video.
I often wondered what kind of light went on with Blake.
Now I Know!
I really do not care for Lambert, he seems like a Coach who may not have the best communication skills.
His fav. saying seems to be "F$%& Me!!!" every night!

 

[Rehabguy]

This is a team that plays backward, which is to say, as they head up the ice they are always receiving passes looking back into the defensive zone, then turning and dumping.

We do not head up the ice making passes to each other and rarely skate the puck, with possession….

See the video above. They are all playing like the old Jason Blake. Just get to the redline and dump it in because they fear giving up the puck and getting benched like Engvall for 1 mistake regardless of what else he’s done since he’s joined this team. They’re all playing in fear. Barzal’s figuring it out. Thank God!

Let these boys be athletes. They are not robots nor pawns on a chess board. Let them use their god given talents. The entire team is operating from a position of fear especially late in the game. Let them be in control.

 

[PK Cronin]

And beyond the specifics I’ve given in regards to playing a hybrid defensive system with man on man coverage at the blue line and anchor defense when playing down low accentuated by our more offensive minded defenseman joining 3 or even 4 man rushes when the opportunity is there I’ve made the point that there is a psychology to this game and that the approach Trotz and even moreover Lambert is taking in handling this team is too stifling to creativity too much of a chokehold by stressing too much on defensive responsibilities that the players are playing in fear of making mistakes that they can’t get into the zone. They can’t play loose to create offense or manage a power play. Compounding all of this is that they rarely appear to be practicing offense. Have you ever heard Trotz or Lambert talk the creativity involved in generating offense? The problem with this team is 100% the coach, his overemphasis on a defensive system at the expense of offensive creativity. He’s benching players who are making 1 time offensive mistakes wiping away that player’s confidence.

For anyone doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say watch this video that includes our own former Islander Jason Blake. This is what I’m talking about. THIS is why the team can’t launch effective counter attacks late in the game even when they are winning by multiple goals. Lambert has them playing in so much fear of making mistakes they are turtling when they should be putting their foot on the accelerator counterattacking to maintain leads. This team has no confidence in their offensive game especially in high pressure situations late in the game. That’s the result of 5 years of indoctrination into a rigid defensive system. In the current Islanders situation it’s the coach who’s draining any bit of confidence in these players abilities by chastising them and benching them whenever they make a defensive mistake. The fear is real. It’s not imaginary so the players are losing confidence and trust in their own skills. He has them playing like ROBOTS! Jason Blake learned how to play a responsible game yet generate offense when the opportunity presented itself because Laviolette instilled confidence in his game and allowed him to trust his instincts. Exactly what Lambert and honestly but maybe to a lesser extent Trotz don’t do with the players. Watch and listen carefully.

Blake was afraid to attempt to do anything other than dump the puck in once he hit the red line. Once he had a conversation with Laviolette and there was clarification about the expectations Blake's game blossomed.

One issue is that Blake was breaking into the NHL around the year 2000. The way that coaches handle players now compared to then is very different for most coaches/teams. We know that they're less harsh than they were back then and are willing to adapt to the younger players in the league. Another thing is that Trotz is praised up and down as a very good communicator, and fans got to see some of that when he was giving his press conferences. Do we really think that Trotz was telling people to never create offense or take any chances? I'd find that a bit hard to believe. We've only seen Lambert for a little over a year in the head coaching role so the question is, is that enough time to have caused issues like what you're talking about?

Risk vs responsible play is a balancing act, especially for young players. Coaches can't give too much rope or their emphasis on the defensive side of things will just be ignored altogether. If you're too stringent in what you're asking you'll definitely suffer from a lack of confidence. It can't be all one or the other, it needs to be both. Every player is also different and needs to be treated differently in that regard. Martin and Wahlstrom have different roles, different abilities, and a different amount of experience, they simply shouldn't be treated the same.

Now, back to what you provided a few posts back about Trotz letting the players "do their thing" in the offensive zone. That sounds very clearly to me like the players were allowed to do whatever they wanted in those situations. The coaches cared about structure defensively but less so when it came to the offense, instead they were trusting the instincts of players like Ovechkin or Barzal. That's quite literally what you have been asking for until your most recent comments about practicing more on the offensive side of things.

How is the defensive responsibilities impacting their ability to create offense? What is happening in their own end has little to nothing to do with what Barzal is doing with the puck when entering the offensive zone. Neither does the type of forecheck or neutral zone system being played. The one thing it all stems back to is that all coaches want players to take care of the puck, that means reducing hope plays and turnovers, and there are certain situations where it's absolutely crucial you don't do those things. The threshold for those sorts of mistakes is different per coach but it's a very important part of the game. There's a reason young teams don't win the cup. Almost all highly skilled players say something along the lines of, "I needed to learn and round out the defensive side of my game" when looking back on their earlier years in the league. Again, it's a balancing act.

Where hockey is like "chess" is that you need to understand what your opponent is doing, you need to know how your pieces work together to combat that, defensively or offensively. Creating structure and predictability is helpful for your teammates. It's akin to a football team all know what Blue 42 is and everyone executing their job. Knowing where your support is, where your outlets are, what the objective of your forecheck or neutral zone positioning is, whether players will be breaking out with a cross ice pass or not is all very important for any team. It's absolutely crucial to have that foundation. If you don't then you see more mistakes and more pucks going into the back of your net because players are more likely to miscommunicate about responsibilities.

 

[Rehabguy]

I tried to have the discussion, you didn't want to answer any questions. Remember, it was above our pay grade to provide specifics.

You've fundamentally misunderstood my position even though I've attempted to make it clear. There are areas the team needs to clean up. I defend defense first systems and structure. It's won plenty of cups for lots of different teams. That doesn't mean Lambert is doing a great job.

It doesn't bother me when someone calls him out on it. It bothers me when they're all over the place with what they're calling out. If the team loses you say it's because you were right, even when providing examples that directly contradict what you were claiming. For example, the Islanders can give up a goal in transition and you're saying it's because they're sitting back too much. The Bolduc/Aho misplay comes to mind. How can I even have a discussion with someone who refuses to see what the play actually is? Most of the time you just ignore those questions or comments and move on to the next generic thing. You keep referring to chess but haven't defined what that is. You want instincts and creativity, but now you want them to practicing offensive plays, which is the opposite of instincts. These things don't align with your previous points and it reads as if you're constantly changing what you think based off the results.

I provided you with some specifics in a previous thread of what I'd do. You ignored it. I'd break out lower in the zone and stop stretch passes, I wouldn't allow forwards to go down below the top of the circles in the defensive zone. More D to D passes before trying to push the play up the ice. The forward coming back on a 3 on 2 or 3 on 3 situation seems to attack the puck carrier even if the defenseman is there, I wouldn't do that anymore. We're seeing more give and goes from Barzal and so many of us (maybe even you) have been calling for that for years now, it's generating more chances so more of that. I'd play a heavy 2-1-2 forecheck in the offensive zone and go back to a grinding style of hockey that is heavy on cycling. These a few things that are on the easier side to correct. The issues like knowing when to switch or who to cover is probably just a communication issue and it needs to be addressed.

As a fan of Bill Torrey and Al Arbour I also agree with a defense first and building from a goaltender out approach to the game. The dynasty Isles did this but for sure they were also an offensive minded powerhouse and for those of us who fondly remember how they approached a game it was one of adaptability. They could play any style of hockey you wanted. They can play wide open, trap, dump and chase equally well depending upon the opponent.

What you mentioned are some details in your last paragraph. That’s fine and you can try all of that and some of that harks back to Capuano. But my approach has been if in the big picture the coach’s general approach to the game and management of his players is fundamentally flawed all of these suggestions are for naught.

I’ve said it for 4 seasons now pre-dating Lambert. The Isles defense above all else approach to the game is too stifling and strict. It may have won them a few rounds at the Isles peak but it was too fundamentally flawed at reacting to the ebbs and flow of a game. It couldn’t buy or save you a goal when you needed it the most costing this team advancing any further in the playoffs.

Today we see that the wheels have fallen completely off the wagon. The team has lost total confidence and opposing teams have figured out every weakness in the system. But beyond all this Lambert has the team so wound up and afraid of making mistakes that its overall performance is piss poor. He’s too much of a control freak. Some of this can be blamed on his training under Trotz but I think some of this is just Lamberts inexperience as a leader. Coaches who have insecurities tend to lash out at their own players rather than being introspective about their own flaws. Engvall’s benching again is mind boggling. His treatment of Bailey last season was inexcusable. If he hasn’t already he is well on his way to losing credibility with the players.

The video posted above explains it all and why instilling confidence your players has a direct influence on how well and productive players will play when they are not playing from a position of fear. Going from a 5 goal scorer to a 40 goal scorer is concrete evidence of that. Now imagine if an entire team is operating from a position of fear. Fear of making mistakes worrying you might be the next Engvall, the next benched Barzal, or worse the next Bailey for coughing up the puck late in a game.

You can make all the detailed suggestions you want but if on a more fundamental level the coaches approach is like cancer to the locker room the details are useless. I would tell this coach worry about the log in his butthole first before he worries about the splinter in his player’s eye.

 

[Rehabguy]

Blake was afraid to attempt to do anything other than dump the puck in once he hit the red line. Once he had a conversation with Laviolette and there was clarification about the expectations Blake's game blossomed.

One issue is that Blake was breaking into the NHL around the year 2000. The way that coaches handle players now compared to then is very different for most coaches/teams. We know that they're less harsh than they were back then and are willing to adapt to the younger players in the league. Another thing is that Trotz is praised up and down as a very good communicator, and fans got to see some of that when he was giving his press conferences. Do we really think that Trotz was telling people to never create offense or take any chances? I'd find that a bit hard to believe. We've only seen Lambert for a little over a year in the head coaching role so the question is, is that enough time to have caused issues like what you're talking about?

Risk vs responsible play is a balancing act, especially for young players. Coaches can't give too much rope or their emphasis on the defensive side of things will just be ignored altogether. If you're too stringent in what you're asking you'll definitely suffer from a lack of confidence. It can't be all one or the other, it needs to be both. Every player is also different and needs to be treated differently in that regard. Martin and Wahlstrom have different roles, different abilities, and a different amount of experience, they simply shouldn't be treated the same.

Now, back to what you provided a few posts back about Trotz letting the players "do their thing" in the offensive zone. That sounds very clearly to me like the players were allowed to do whatever they wanted in those situations. The coaches cared about structure defensively but less so when it came to the offense, instead they were trusting the instincts of players like Ovechkin or Barzal. That's quite literally what you have been asking for until your most recent comments about practicing more on the offensive side of things.

How is the defensive responsibilities impacting their ability to create offense? What is happening in their own end has little to nothing to do with what Barzal is doing with the puck when entering the offensive zone. Neither does the type of forecheck or neutral zone system being played. The one thing it all stems back to is that all coaches want players to take care of the puck, that means reducing hope plays and turnovers, and there are certain situations where it's absolutely crucial you don't do those things. The threshold for those sorts of mistakes is different per coach but it's a very important part of the game. There's a reason young teams don't win the cup. Almost all highly skilled players say something along the lines of, "I needed to learn and round out the defensive side of my game" when looking back on their earlier years in the league. Again, it's a balancing act.

Where hockey is like "chess" is that you need to understand what your opponent is doing, you need to know how your pieces work together to combat that, defensively or offensively. Creating structure and predictability is helpful for your teammates. It's akin to a football team all know what Blue 42 is and everyone executing their job. Knowing where your support is, where your outlets are, what the objective of your forecheck or neutral zone positioning is, whether players will be breaking out with a cross ice pass or not is all very important for any team. It's absolutely crucial to have that foundation. If you don't then you see more mistakes and more pucks going into the back of your net because players are more likely to miscommunicate about responsibilities.

I’m for balance as well. I don’t want pond hockey but I don’t want players so afraid that they don’t have any confidence and trust in their own skills. 5 years to teach structure is enough. If anything it’s too much. What more about defense can you squeeze out of this team? This is no longer a young inexperienced team. The last press conference was again about defense. Lambert doesn’t think this team doesn’t know anything about defense? Structure? Seriously? This team is lacking confidence in its offense and it’s very evident in its perennially horrific power play. That’s inexcusable and it’s all because they are not practicing offense enough, they are holding their sticks too tight, they too afraid to make mistakes, and too scared to want the puck. They would prefer to turtle at this point. Because of fear they are playing not to lose. Confident players play to win. This is the core of the problem. We can talk all day about puck management and making the right decisions but if the team is too wound up, lacking confidence especially late in the game all of this is a waste of energy. Lamberts got to loosen up the reins here and just let them play hockey.

 

[LeapOnOver]

That’s one of the two. Next do Martin and Clutterbuck.


Holmstrom only works on L1 if he asserts himself next to 14 and 13. He put himself in the back seat when he was on that line before.

He'll get another chance and he will assert himself. I'd argue he's just what that line needs. If he earns 14 and 13 trust.... could be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[LeapOnOver]

As a fan of Bill Torrey and Al Arbour I also agree with a defense first and building from a goaltender out approach to the game. The dynasty Isles did this but for sure they were also an offensive minded powerhouse and for those of us who fondly remember how they approached a game it was one of adaptability. They could play any style of hockey you wanted. They can play wide open, trap, dump and chase equally well depending upon the opponent.

What you mentioned are some details in your last paragraph. That’s fine and you can try all of that and some of that harks back to Capuano. But my approach has been if in the big picture the coach’s general approach to the game and management of his players is fundamentally flawed all of these suggestions are for naught.

I’ve said it for 4 seasons now pre-dating Lambert. The Isles defense above all else approach to the game is too stifling and strict. It may have won them a few rounds at the Isles peak but it was too fundamentally flawed at reacting to the ebbs and flow of a game. It couldn’t buy or save you a goal when you needed it the most costing this team advancing any further in the playoffs.

Today we see that the wheels have fallen completely off the wagon. The team has lost total confidence and opposing teams have figured out every weakness in the system. But beyond all this Lambert has the team so wound up and afraid of making mistakes that its overall performance is piss poor. He’s too much of a control freak. Some of this can be blamed on his training under Trotz but I think some of this is just Lamberts inexperience as a leader. Coaches who have insecurities tend to lash out at their own players rather than being introspective about their own flaws. Engvall’s benching again is mind boggling. His treatment of Bailey last season was inexcusable. If he hasn’t already he is well on his way to losing credibility with the players.

The video posted above explains it all and why instilling confidence your players has a direct influence on how well and productive players will play when they are not playing from a position of fear. Going from a 5 goal scorer to a 40 goal scorer is concrete evidence of that. Now imagine if an entire team is operating from a position of fear. Fear of making mistakes worrying you might be the next Engvall, the next benched Barzal, or worse the next Bailey for coughing up the puck late in a game.

You can make all the detailed suggestions you want but if on a more fundamental level the coaches approach is like cancer to the locker room the details are useless. I would tell this coach worry about the log in his butthole first before he worries about the splinter in his player’s eye.

I'd argue the team isn't playing with enough fear. They hold the puck too long, make passes that put themselves in danger (Pulock almost died because of it, lol) and don't play with urgency when under pressure. Maybe Lambert is too soft and benching Engvall is his only recourse.

 

[Rehabguy]

I'd argue the team isn't playing with enough fear. They hold the puck too long, make passes that put themselves in danger (Pulock almost died because of it, lol) and don't play with urgency when under pressure. Maybe Lambert is too soft and benching Engvall is his only recourse.

As they said the opposite of fear is confidence. If they are not playing with enough fear they are playing with confidence. The Isles record in the past 5 games or so with all the blown leads and meltdowns doesn't exactly fit the definition of confidence in my book.

 

[Rehabguy]

The only possible silver lining and shimmer of hope in all of this is the reemergence of the Barzal we saw his rookie year. He's not all there yet but he's getting better. Love to see this kid play his game. Screw Lambert its your career kid. Keep doing what your doing. This is confidence reemerging.

Looking back at the comments on Oct 27 and I have to laugh. Y'all thought I was crazy.

Barzal shitted on by fellow Isles fans

But look at him now. If we can get the rest of team on the same page sans Lambert they just might be able to salvage this season before it's too late. The kid can single handedly resurrect this team from the dead. It's all about confidence.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

View attachment 765491

NEW YORK ISLANDERS (5-3-3) AT BOSTON BRUINS (10-1-1)

7 PM | TD GARDEN

WATCH: MSGSN | MSG+ | ESPN+

LISTEN: 88.7FM | 103.9FM | 1050AM

The New York Islanders hit the road to take on the Boston Bruins for a Thursday night matchup at TD Garden.

The Islanders saw a five-game point streak (3-0-2) come to an end on Tuesday night with a 4-2 loss to the Minnesota Wild. Noah Dobson and Oliver Wahlstrom (PPG) found the back of the net for the Islanders, but Pat Maroon (1G, 1A), Vinni Lettieri, Kirill Kaprizov and Joel Eriksson Ek scored for the Wild. Semyon Varlamov made 27 saves in the loss in his first home start of the season, while Marc-Andre Fleury made 26 saves in the win. The Islanders power play went 1-for-5, while the penalty kill went 3-for-4.

The Bruins are coming off a 3-2 win over the Dallas Stars on Monday night. John Beecher, Mason Lohrei and Brad Marchand scored for the Bruins, while Wyatt Johnston and Joe Pavelski scored for the Stars. The Bruins have not lost consecutive games so far this season, with their only regulation loss coming on Saturday to the Detroit Red Wings.

The Islanders went 0-2-1 last season against the Bruins and are 0-4-2 in their last six trips to Boston.

“Their team has had a lot of success last season and to start this season,” Hudson Fasching said. “They’re a strong team and they play well. We’ll have to be on our A-game tomorrow for sure, it’s a game we’re excited about though. We love playing at TD Garden, there’s a lot of energy in that building.”

View attachment 765492

ISLANDERS NOTES​

- Bo Horvat (day to day, lower body) and Adam Pelech (maintenance) missed Wednesday’s practice, but will travel with the team to Boston. Horvat missed Tuesday’s game against Minnesota.

- Oliver Wahlstrom drew into the lineup for Horvat and scored his first goal of the season with a power-play tally on Tuesday night against Minnesota. The winger skated with Anders Lee with Mathew Barzal shifting back at center. Wahlstrom and Barzal had experience playing together in prior seasons but clicked on the same line after a long hiatus.

“It was fun, he sees the ice really well,” Wahlstrom said of playing with Barzal. “When he brings the puck in the zone, you know there’s going to be some plays there, so I have to put myself in good spots, play my game and attack.”

- Dobson scored his fourth goal of the season on Tuesday night. With his 34th goal of his career, the defenseman took sole possession of second place on the franchise list for most goals scored by a defenseman 24 or younger, second only to Denis Potvin’s 95 goals before his 24th birthday. Dobson maintains his point per game pace, with four goals and seven assists through 11 games, which leads the team. Per Islanders team statistician Eric Hornick, Noah Dobson is the first Islander defensemen since James Wisniewski (2010-11) to have at least 11 points in the Isles’ first 11 games.

- The Islanders have only played three road games so far this year, which is tied for fewest in the league with the Washington Capitals. After a home-heavy schedule to kick off the season, the Islanders are gearing up the next five of six games on the road. Head Coach Lane Lambert said his team needs to be ready regardless of how the schedule shakes out.

“There are no excuses, we have to take advantage of a home schedule or however they’re spread out,” Lambert said. “It’s not a bad thing. In any sport, it’s sometimes not a bad thing to get on the road. But certainly, that’s not an excuse for some of the leads we’ve given up.”

BRUINS NOTES​

- The Bruins are off to a blazing start, going 10-1-1 to start the season. Boston sits atop the Atlantic Division and Eastern Conference and is second in the NHL in points, trailing on the Vegas Golden Knights.

- The Bruins are also the stingiest team, allowing a league-low 23 goals (1.92 per game). They are the only team averaging fewer than two goals allowed per game.

- David Pastrnak leads the Bruins with 17 points (9G, 8A) though 12 games of his 10th season as a Bruin. The 27-year-old forward recently hit his 600th game milestone on Oct. 30.

- Charlie McAvoy is serving a four-game suspension and will not be in the lineup against the Islanders, which marks the last game of his suspension.

- Matt Grzelcyk is week-to-week with an upper-body injury. He was placed on LTIR on Nov. 1. The 29-year-old defenseman had one point through nine games before leaving the contest on Oct. 30 against the Panthers.

- With McAvoy and Grzelcyk out, Parker Wotherspoon was recalled and has played three-straight games with the Bruins recording one assist and six blocked shots over that span. The former Islander spent eight seasons in the Islanders organization, playing 293 games in Bridgeport and 12 games with the Islanders. The 26-year-old blueliner signed a one-year, two-way contract with the Bruins on July 1st.

- John Beecher scored his first NHL goal against Dallas on Monday in his 12th game with the Bruins.

- Mason Lohrei made history with his NHL debut on Thursday as the first Louisiana-born player to take the ice in an NHL game. Every state in the US has produced an NHL player except the following eight states: Arkansas, Kansas, Kentucky, New Mexico, Tennessee, West Virginia, Wyoming and Hawaii.

Lohrei never played a game of competitive hockey in his life in Louisiana. He probably moved before he probably laced skates up.

Like saying Langway was from Taiwan, such an abject stupid talking point. He grew up in Wisconsin\Indiana.

 

[PK Cronin]

As a fan of Bill Torrey and Al Arbour I also agree with a defense first and building from a goaltender out approach to the game. The dynasty Isles did this but for sure they were also an offensive minded powerhouse and for those of us who fondly remember how they approached a game it was one of adaptability. They could play any style of hockey you wanted. They can play wide open, trap, dump and chase equally well depending upon the opponent.

Tampa Bay could do this when they won their cups. The Islanders do not have those types of players to play anyway their opponent wants. That's definitely the ideal scenario though but the Islanders need to find ways to make the opponents play their style. That is when they've had the most success.

What you mentioned are some details in your last paragraph. That’s fine and you can try all of that and some of that harks back to Capuano. But my approach has been if in the big picture the coach’s general approach to the game and management of his players is fundamentally flawed all of these suggestions are for naught.

I’ve said it for 4 seasons now pre-dating Lambert. The Isles defense above all else approach to the game is too stifling and strict. It may have won them a few rounds at the Isles peak but it was too fundamentally flawed at reacting to the ebbs and flow of a game. It couldn’t buy or save you a goal when you needed it the most costing this team advancing any further in the playoffs.

Back to back ECF trips isn't exactly screaming fundamentally flawed. Again, lots of teams have won with the same approach. Trotz did so with a similar system with the Capitals. The Kings were able to do it. The Blues were able to do it too. What are the differences between those teams and the Islanders?

I don't think the system is flawed, I think that players struggle to execute that style for long periods of time because it's grueling. As players like Martin and Clutterbuck get older it gets more difficult to keep up. That's why many wanted to start phasing those guys out instead of keeping them around. Getting younger and fresher legs could go a long way playing this style of hockey.

Today we see that the wheels have fallen completely off the wagon. The team has lost total confidence and opposing teams have figured out every weakness in the system. But beyond all this Lambert has the team so wound up and afraid of making mistakes that its overall performance is piss poor. He’s too much of a control freak. Some of this can be blamed on his training under Trotz but I think some of this is just Lamberts inexperience as a leader. Coaches who have insecurities tend to lash out at their own players rather than being introspective about their own flaws. Engvall’s benching again is mind boggling. His treatment of Bailey last season was inexcusable. If he hasn’t already he is well on his way to losing credibility with the players.

The video posted above explains it all and why instilling confidence your players has a direct influence on how well and productive players will play when they are not playing from a position of fear. Going from a 5 goal scorer to a 40 goal scorer is concrete evidence of that. Now imagine if an entire team is operating from a position of fear. Fear of making mistakes worrying you might be the next Engvall, the next benched Barzal, or worse the next Bailey for coughing up the puck late in a game.

You can make all the detailed suggestions you want but if on a more fundamental level the coaches approach is like cancer to the locker room the details are useless. I would tell this coach worry about the log in his butthole first before he worries about the splinter in his player’s eye.

While it's an example of a singular player I wouldn't call it concrete evidence. As I mentioned, many offensive dynamos talk about the need to understand the defensive side of the game in order to win. Blake scored 40, but how'd the rest of the team do? How successful was the team? It wasn't. Why didn't everyone else on those team benefit the same way?

It's also missing a lot of context on Blake to say he went from 5 goals to 40. That didn't happen in a singular season. He went from 5 goals to 8 goals to 25 goals to 22 goals to 28 goals and then had his breakout 40 goal season. It was quickly met with a rapid decline. How many times did Jason Blake score 40? Just that single season. He never approached that number again. His next closest after that confidence building season was 25 goals and that was the last time he ever broke 20 goals. If anything, Blake was a blip on the radar and had a meteoric unsustainable season where everything went right for him. I don't think we should be looking at players like him for evidence of success on an individual or team level.

I’m for balance as well. I don’t want pond hockey but I don’t want players so afraid that they don’t have any confidence and trust in their own skills. 5 years to teach structure is enough. If anything it’s too much. What more about defense can you squeeze out of this team? This is no longer a young inexperienced team. The last press conference was again about defense. Lambert doesn’t think this team doesn’t know anything about defense? Structure? Seriously? This team is lacking confidence in its offense and it’s very evident in its perennially horrific power play. That’s inexcusable and it’s all because they are not practicing offense enough, they are holding their sticks too tight, they too afraid to make mistakes, and too scared to want the puck. They would prefer to turtle at this point. This is the core of the problem. We can talk all day about puck management and making the right decisions but if the team is too wound up, lacking confidence especially late in the game all of this is a waste of energy. Lamberts got to loosen up the reins here and just let them play hockey.

This is mostly conjecture. Why is it confidence and not skill? How do you know they don't want the puck?

Romanov, Bolduc, Aho, Wahlstrom, Gauthier, Fasching, Holmstrom, Engvall, Horvat, and Palmieri haven't been on this team for five years (at least not as a regular). That's half of the defense and a bunch of young forwards, they need to have the defensive side reinforced.

The only possible silver lining and shimmer of hope in all of this is the reemergence of the Barzal we saw his rookie year. He's not all there yet but he's getting better. Love to see this kid play his game. Screw Lambert its your career kid. Keep doing what your doing. This is confidence reemerging.

Looking back at the comments on Oct 27 and I have to laugh. Y'all thought I was crazy.

Barzal shitted on by fellow Isles fans

But look at him now. If we can get the rest of team on the same page sans Lambert they just might be able to salvage this season before it's too late. The kid can single handedly resurrect this team from the dead. It's all about confidence.

I don't really understand this at all. Why do you think Barzal is playing this way in spite of what Lambert is telling him? You just mentioned how Bailey and Engvall were treated unfairly, if Barzal is blatantly ignoring the coach then why isn't he getting his ice time taken away?

Barzal is actually doing less of what that article you referenced said. He's not circling the offensive zone like crazy holding the puck. He's actually using his teammates significantly more than we've seen him in past seasons. The give and goes with Horvat have been wonderful. Dishing to Dobson has been great. Letting other players gain the zone has helped his game quite a bit and may have even made his entries more effective because he's not as predictable. He even seems to be shooting more (I haven't checked his stats on that so maybe I'm wrong).

These are things many of us have been saying he needs to do for years. You're attributing it to him having confidence and ignoring the coach but I can't imagine a world where a coach told him not to do these things. It's basic hockey at its core.