Gaudreau: Needs more muscle or he's just fine the way he is?

[Rubi]

Why do you have such an emphasis on what Gaudreau "needs to do" by simply "adding strength"?

There have been plenty of players who have had outstanding assist totals in their career and prefer to get it done by letting players who have a better shot do their job. Thornton, Datsyuk, H. Sedin, Tanguay, etc. all known for their playmaking ability and at an elite level. There's nothing wrong with that.

Gaudreau should focus on dekes and passes and the occasional shot to keep the opposition honest. He may not beat them often with a wrister but it's about playing the mind games. But that's hockey IQ/mental training, not physical.

Gaudreau is who he is and how he got to the NHL is by playing his game and he has done so successfully. He should focus on honing his existing assets, not wasting resources on developing physical abilities he was never blessed with.

I just think that if your best player is only scoring 1 goal every 4 games something has to change if the Flames are to improve this year the way they want to. Most cup contenders have that one player who makes you nervous whenever they have the puck because of their ability to score. Johnny just isn't that player anymore. 18 goals in a season just isn't good enough for your top player whose getting paid almost $7 mil per year. The status quo just doesn't cut it if we want to win... Not when our strongest competition has arguably the best player in the league.
By the way, Gaudreau got to where he is by putting the puck in the net (36 goals in 40 games in his last season with BC) almost as much as he did by passing it off to others. Johnny needs to get back to where he was and to do that in a faster stronger league he needs to be faster and stronger. When he does that he will truly become an elite player. Right now he's just 'good'. I want Gaudreau to be better than 'good'. The team needs Johnny to be better than 'good'.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I just think that if your best player is only scoring 1 goal every 4 games something has to change if the Flames are to improve this year the way they want to. Most cup contenders have that one player who makes you nervous whenever they have the puck because of their ability to score. Johnny just isn't that player anymore. 18 goals in a season just isn't good enough for your top player whose getting paid almost $7 mil per year. The status quo just doesn't cut it if we want to win... Not when our strongest competition has arguably the best player in the league.

I'm not sure I agree at all. Monahan is the triggerman on that line and Johnny is the setup man. Johnny is naturally a better playmaker than Monahan, so now you're saying to tell Johnny to play a different game than he's used. I think the results could go the other way.

Again sure Johnny could stand to add more strength, but I don't feel like it's hurting him.

 

[Rubi]

I'm not sure I agree at all. Monahan is the triggerman on that line and Johnny is the setup man. Johnny is naturally a better playmaker than Monahan, so now you're saying to tell Johnny to play a different game than he's used. I think the results could go the other way.

Again sure Johnny could stand to add more strength, but I don't feel like it's hurting him.

Would you agree that a player with a good shot gets more playmaking opportunities because the D can't cheat by defending against the pass? Gaudreau doesn't have a good shot. More strength will improve that.

 

[Savoie92]

To me i would say keep doing what hes doing. He had one "bad" season where he still lead the team in points while missing 10 games in the process. And we changed our whole system. I know that affects everyone on the team but it still is a factor.

Gaining more muscle could be beneficial but you don't want it to disrupt his ability to move and squeeze in spots he may not be able to do if he was bigger.

That is my two cents take it for what its worth.

 

[Rubi]

This is Johnny.

I just don't understand how anyone can argue that adding a few lbs of muscle wouldn't be beneficial to his game

 

[L13]

Uh, because his style of play has worked for him for years and there's absolutely no reason to believe fattening him up (and/or changing his style of play) would improve his performance? Showing us pictures of him enjoying the offseason is nice but not convincing.

 

[Rubi]

Uh, because his style of play has worked for him for years and there's absolutely no reason to believe fattening him up (and/or changing his style of play) would improve his performance? Showing us pictures of him enjoying the offseason is nice but not convincing.

Well you have your opinion and I have mine. I'm not satisfied with the status quo where as you apparently are. And fattening him up? Where did I say he should add some fat to hs frame? And where did I say he should change hs style of play? All I said was that he should improve his shot and one way to do that is by getting stronger. If improving your shot is changing your style of play then everyone in he NHL should aspire to this.
Next time you want to reply to one of my posts try less hyperbole and more honesty

 

[1989]

I just think that if your best player is only scoring 1 goal every 4 games something has to change if the Flames are to improve this year the way they want to. Most cup contenders have that one player who makes you nervous whenever they have the puck because of their ability to score. Johnny just isn't that player anymore. 18 goals in a season just isn't good enough for your top player whose getting paid almost $7 mil per year. The status quo just doesn't cut it if we want to win... Not when our strongest competition has arguably the best player in the league.
By the way, Gaudreau got to where he is by putting the puck in the net (36 goals in 40 games in his last season with BC) almost as much as he did by passing it off to others. Johnny needs to get back to where he was and to do that in a faster stronger league he needs to be faster and stronger. When he does that he will truly become an elite player. Right now he's just 'good'. I want Gaudreau to be better than 'good'. The team needs Johnny to be better than 'good'.

If every player in the NHL scored the way they did in their respective development leagues, they wouldn't be viewed as third-line tweeners, goons, or scrubs in professional leagues. It's such a ridiculous expectation I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed previously.

You say he "needs to get faster and stronger" in a league which js stronger and faster. Was he not weaker and slower when he first played out of college? Has he been letting his muscles atrophy in the offseasons and eating Skittles with every meal since he became a pro?

What you want versus what is the reality is in regards to Gaudreau's frame and his specific NHL skillset are clearly at opposites. I re-iterate once more - for Gaudreau to succeed, he should become an even better playmaker as it's what the Flames' current roster needs him to be. His shot, while lacking in power, is accurate and mostly needs to be used against cheating oppositions who are only anticipating his pass. Again, that's mental training and reading the play on the ice (of which he is already excellent at), not a physical development.

Reading your one-track-mind responses, it's clear that you feel that Gaudreau either lacks impact or you simply wish he was a player he isn't. Can he make improvements on his game overall? Absolutely. Will he ever reach your expectations of the player you want him to be? I would bet my house that he won't. This isn't "agreeing to disagree", just "reality vs fantasy".

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I just think that if your best player is only scoring 1 goal every 4 games something has to change

Gaudrau averages closer to a goal every three games.

Which is pretty much right in line with Kane 2010-2015, Kopitar 2012-2014, Crosby 2016, McDavid, Bergeron 2010-2014 etc.

 

[Rubi]

If every player in the NHL scored the way they did in their respective development leagues, they wouldn't be viewed as third-line tweeners, goons, or scrubs in professional leagues. It's such a ridiculous expectation I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed previously.

You say he "needs to get faster and stronger" in a league which js stronger and faster. Was he not weaker and slower when he first played out of college? Has he been letting his muscles atrophy in the offseasons and eating Skittles with every meal since he became a pro?

What you want versus what is the reality is in regards to Gaudreau's frame and his specific NHL skillset are clearly at opposites. I re-iterate once more - for Gaudreau to succeed, he should become an even better playmaker as it's what the Flames' current roster needs him to be. His shot, while lacking in power, is accurate and mostly needs to be used against cheating oppositions who are only anticipating his pass. Again, that's mental training and reading the play on the ice (of which he is already excellent at), not a physical development.

Reading your one-track-mind responses, it's clear that you feel that Gaudreau either lacks impact or you simply wish he was a player he isn't. Can he make improvements on his game overall? Absolutely. Will he ever reach your expectations of the player you want him to be? I would bet my house that he won't. This isn't "agreeing to disagree", just "reality vs fantasy".

Sorry that you feel that for Johnny to get stronger is a waste of time and an impossibility. Too bad you write Johnny's physical development off so easily
Fairy dust won't make Johnny improve. He needs to put some work into it and one aspect of that work would be proper nutrition and strength training. Mental development? Johnny sees the ice better than most NHL players. He doesn't need more mental development. What he lacks is physical development. Anyone can develop their body physically. Gaudreau is no exception however you, inexplicably, think he is.
Do I have one track mind responses? I suppose I do in this thread which is all about whether Gaudreau needs to get stronger. I think he does. So shoot me for my opinion. Its an opinion... no less valid than yours.
Fantasy is believing that he will be an NHL elite player by doing nothing more than "mental training? Now that's reality.

 

[Rubi]

Gaudrau averages closer to a goal every three games.

Which is pretty much right in line with Kane 2010-2015, Kopitar 2012-2014, Crosby 2016, McDavid, Bergeron 2010-2014 etc.

Last year, Gaudreau (by the way, for such a huge Flames fan, you keep spelling his name wrong in multiple posts) scored 18 goals in 72 games. That's EXACTLY one goal in every 4 games.

 

[1989]

Sorry that you feel that for Johnny to get stronger is a waste of time and an impossibility. Too bad you write Johnny's physical development off so easily
Fairy dust won't make Johnny improve. He needs to put some work into it and one aspect of that work would be proper nutrition and strength training. Mental development? Johnny sees the ice better than most NHL players. He doesn't need more mental development. What he lacks is physical development. Anyone can develop their body physically. Gaudreau is no exception however you, inexplicably, think he is.
Do I have one track mind responses? I suppose I do in this thread which is all about whether Gaudreau needs to get stronger. I think he does. So shoot me for my opinion. Its an opinion... no less valid than yours.
Fantasy is believing that he will be an NHL elite player by doing nothing more than "mental training? Now that's reality.

I never claimed once that he was incapable of adding muscle mass, but yes, it is generally going to be a waste of time because his body type is not the same as say, Martin St Louis.

I see you never address certain parts of my post. Simply more tunnel vision posting?
Refusing (or unable) to acknowledge that college production doesn't transfer easily to the NHL, however pointing ti his NCAA goal production like it means anything. Was he a shooter, or what if he deked the goalie 25 times instead? Or perhaps his 18 goals scored last season, 16 goals were snipes and 2 were dekes and deflections. So little context, such a weak argument thus far.

Again, do you not believe he has been training since his professional debut? Or were his college years clearly the physical peak of his career thus far? You certainly seem to believe it is the former and that he has not added musculature to his benefit in the NHL. The primary question is clearly whether more muscle mass would help. "He needs to put some work into it" and utilize "proper nutrition", not just "fairy dust" would further imply you think he hasn't trained or fuelled properly, and in previous posts you believe he was more dangerous earlier in his NHL career. What exactly do you think he has been doing during the offseason, other than not appealing to your sense of what he should be?

The professional trainers and coaches that are either employed by him in the offseason or employed by the Flames disagree because they see him play and practice and train. Other than his first couple of seasons, it's never been mentioned that Gaudreau needs to put on more weight anymore. Do you think the Flames, who have the highest stake in his ability as a player, are being complacent? Perhaps the coaches and trainers are just inept and clueless at motivating Gaudreau to push himself as a professional hockey player, but somehow I doubt that's the case. Hell, if I remember correctly, the Flames went out of their way during the Hartley years to ensure they brought in strong training staff which the players credited towards their successful season and to my knowledge those trainers and their direction haven't changed.

Pointing out the fact that we share differing opinions is not particularly astute - but there is a difference between educated opinion and uneducated. I honestly haven't seen much from your argument other than "more muscle = stronger shot = better Gaudreau".

 

[Rubi]

I never claimed once that he was incapable of adding muscle mass, but yes, it is generally going to be a waste of time because his body type is not the same as say, Martin St Louis.

I see you never address certain parts of my post. Simply more tunnel vision posting?
Refusing (or unable) to acknowledge that college production doesn't transfer easily to the NHL, however pointing ti his NCAA goal production like it means anything. Was he a shooter, or what if he deked the goalie 25 times instead? Or perhaps his 18 goals scored last season, 16 goals were snipes and 2 were dekes and deflections. So little context, such a weak argument thus far.

Again, do you not believe he has been training since his professional debut? Or were his college years clearly the physical peak of his career thus far? You certainly seem to believe it is the former and that he has not added musculature to his benefit in the NHL. The primary question is clearly whether more muscle mass would help. "He needs to put some work into it" and utilize "proper nutrition", not just "fairy dust" would further imply you think he hasn't trained or fuelled properly, and in previous posts you believe he was more dangerous earlier in his NHL career. What exactly do you think he has been doing during the offseason, other than not appealing to your sense of what he should be?

The professional trainers and coaches that are either employed by him in the offseason or employed by the Flames disagree because they see him play and practice and train. Other than his first couple of seasons, it's never been mentioned that Gaudreau needs to put on more weight anymore. Do you think the Flames, who have the highest stake in his ability as a player, are being complacent? Perhaps the coaches and trainers are just inept and clueless at motivating Gaudreau to push himself as a professional hockey player, but somehow I doubt that's the case. Hell, if I remember correctly, the Flames went out of their way during the Hartley years to ensure they brought in strong training staff which the players credited towards their successful season and to my knowledge those trainers and their direction haven't changed.

Pointing out the fact that we share differing opinions is not particularly astute - but there is a difference between educated opinion and uneducated. I honestly haven't seen much from your argument other than "more muscle = stronger shot = better Gaudreau".

Sorry I didn't rebut ever. single. one. of your argumentative points. I didn't realize I had to. With regards to his BC record, Gaudreau was drafted because of his ability to both score and playmake. You said he should (and I'm paraphrasing because frankly I just don't have the desire, energy, or will to look up exactly what you said) continue doing what got him to the NHL. Well his scoring ability got him to the NHL.
As for the Flames training staff.. how do you know what they've been saying to Gaudreau? Is your name Treliving or Gulutzan? I doubt it just the way I doubt you know what they want Johnny to do in the off-season with regards to training.

But since I again am pointing out that we share different opinions I guess I will just carry on in my non-astute (your opinion and since I doubt that you work for the Flames coaching or management staff I really don't give a damn.) way.

That's it. Done arguing with you Signature. As I said before, your opinion is no more valid than mine. We are both Flames fans and neither one of us really knows for sure what is best for Gaudreau. By the way, I'm a HUGE Gaudreau fan and I know that he has the talent to become an elite NHL player... if, IMO, he makes a few changes/improvements. What changes/improvements is obviously up for debate. That's why this forum exists. Without differing opinions, reading this forum would be dull as dishwater.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

This is Johnny.

I just don't understand how anyone can argue that adding a few lbs of muscle wouldn't be beneficial to his game

I think he could stand to add more lower body strength and more core strength. Adding upper body strength to an extent for sure would not hurt, but at the root of Gaudreau's game, he needs to focus on speed, balance, agility and lateral quickness and explosiveness. All these things will make Gaudreau better at being Gaudreau.

 

[Anglesmith]

This is Johnny.

I just don't understand how anyone can argue that adding a few lbs of muscle wouldn't be beneficial to his game

Looks like the kind of player who has never been hurt by anything other than players swinging their sticks at his hands.

 

[1989]

Sorry I didn't rebut ever. single. one. of your argumentative points. I didn't realize I had to. With regards to his BC record, Gaudreau was drafted because of his ability to both score and playmake. You said he should (and I'm paraphrasing because frankly I just don't have the desire, energy, or will to look up exactly what you said) continue doing what got him to the NHL. Well his scoring ability got him to the NHL.
As for the Flames training staff.. how do you know what they've been saying to Gaudreau? Is your name Treliving or Gulutzan? I doubt it just the way I doubt you know what they want Johnny to do in the off-season with regards to training.

But since I again am pointing out that we share different opinions I guess I will just carry on in my non-astute (your opinion and since I doubt that you work for the Flames coaching or management staff I really don't give a damn.) way.

That's it. Done arguing with you Signature. As I said before, your opinion is no more valid than mine. We are both Flames fans and neither one of us really knows for sure what is best for Gaudreau. By the way, I'm a HUGE Gaudreau fan and I know that he has the talent to become an elite NHL player... if, IMO, he makes a few changes/improvements. What changes/improvements is obviously up for debate. That's why this forum exists. Without differing opinions, reading this forum would be dull as dishwater.

Whether you are a fan of Gaudreau's (and "how much") is irrelevant to the conversation.

It's funny that you can say "I'm done arguing with you" in the same paragraph that you mention differing opinions holding value regardless. If you don't want to take part in the discourse you think is so important, I don't know what to tell you.

There's something I don't understand in your position at all. We know he's capable of scoring around 30 in a complete season. What are your expectations if he trained the way you believe he should? 35 goals? 40? How much more production do you really believe he is capable of? Is it realistic?

You constantly point out that last season he only scored 18 in 72 games. Do you think he failed to train in the offseason between 2016 and 2017 even without knowing his training regimen? Would you acknowledge the possibility that his broken wrist held his goal totals back because he was still rehabilitating mentally and physically, as well as having less games to accomplish that goal? Had he scored 25, would you even be posting this thread?

I simply want Gaudreau to not become the next Tanguay who never shot, even when in prime position to score, and not have defenses be able to predict his next move and believe that to be far more important than whether his goals were due to deflections, dekes, or snipes.

 

[CraigsList]

Sure, just 1 kilo would do the trick.

 

[Rangediddy]

I'd rather see him work on the mental side of his game before fixing his physical form. Focus on not letting other players or the refs get in his head and go to that Kipper-like state of zen.

Also, can someone photoshop St. Louis' legs onto Johnny's body... for fun?

 

[Baxterman]

I am not a expert by any means but to my laymans eyes he doesn't seem to have the frame or body type to put on enough muscle for it to make any difference.

Even if he adds 10 lbs of muscle he is still going to be super small and super weak, any more than that and its hard to not think that his speed and agility might not start to be affected.

 

[Fig]

Sorta disagree on a few points.

First off, Johnny DID add muscle. His rookie season, his body looked like that of a teenager. His current form from last season to today looks closer to an adult body. However, he didn't have issues with scoring in the previous seasons.

Secondly, I cannot comment about arms, legs or core, but comparing picks of his upper torso last pre season vs the previous season, his upper torso was significantly bigger than his rookie season.

Third, you are wrong that more muscle cannot hurt. IIRC, Gully made a comment about Bennett coming in with more muscle, but that muscle hurt his speed. More muscle can benefit in they are muscles used to elevate certain aspects of his game, but if it's muscle for the sake of muscle, it's not necessarily better. IIRC, it was further reiterated about Tkachuk's off season training regimen, where his IQ needs to shine over a stronger body. I forget if Gully or Treliving made that comment.

EDIT: It was Gully
http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Calgary/2017/08/18/22746499.html

The only thing I warn Matthew about is don’t expect that just because you’re stronger and you’re quicker that you’re going to be better. Keep that mental sharpness that you had. His lethal weapon is his IQ and his competitiveness. He’s going to certainly be a better-trained athlete when he comes back, but I don’t want any of mental letdown, just thinking, ‘Oh, I’m quicker and I’m stronger so I’m going to have a better year.’

I'm not saying adding muscle doesn't help. But I don't see a correlation of more muscle = guaranteed success either. Bollig supposedly was a guy that scored very high on fitness year after year with us. It didn't help his game. But I agree that it didn't hurt it either.

 

[FlamerForLife]

 

[Mr Snrub]

Johnny reads HFBoards confirmed

 

[Tofveve]

He needs to be stronger and 5 - 10 lbs heavier. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

[Tofveve]

I think he could stand to add more lower body strength and more core strength. Adding upper body strength to an extent for sure would not hurt, but at the root of Gaudreau's game, he needs to focus on speed, balance, agility and lateral quickness and explosiveness. All these things will make Gaudreau better at being Gaudreau.

In all seriousness though, the aspects of his game you mentioned aren't going to get a whole lot better. It's going to be tweaking and maturing.

If he doesn't get a bit stronger and a bit heavier, it's going to be frustrating for him and his fans everywhere. I mean we saw it all last year and even years prior. I can't see how some strength and weight would hurt.

Again, not expecting him or wanting him to become a body-builder. But he's vastly undersized.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

In all seriousness though, the aspects of his game you mentioned aren't going to get a whole lot better. It's going to be tweaking and maturing.

If he doesn't get a bit stronger and a bit heavier, it's going to be frustrating for him and his fans everywhere. I mean we saw it all last year and even years prior. I can't see how some strength and weight would hurt.

Again, not expecting him or wanting him to become a body-builder. But he's vastly undersized.

To me the only thing holding Johnny back is the slashing. Not how weak he is. If they call slashing like they used to he will be a top 5 scorer.