GDT: Game 9 | Columbus @ Dallas | 8 PM EST

[majormajor]

I will always put this out there....

The grass ain't always greener. Just because we replace Jarmo doesn't mean that we'll get a BETTER GM.

I've seen a few names thrown around but nobody that would be an obvious upgrade on Jarmo.

For sure but for me Jarmo's made enough bad decisions in the last couple years that keeping him is a greater risk.

 

[tunnelvision]

I will always put this out there....

The grass ain't always greener. Just because we replace Jarmo doesn't mean that we'll get a BETTER GM.

I've seen a few names thrown around but nobody that would be an obvious upgrade on Jarmo.

I think most Jarmo critics here realize all of this and would be still willing to take the gamble.

And even if the new guy turns out to be a bad hire, my way of looking at it is that in the long run it's better to do your mistakes sooner rather than later (replacing a bad GM with another bad GM after this season is better for the organisation than doing it later).

 

[cbjthrowaway]

For sure but for me Jarmo's made enough bad decisions in the last couple years that keeping him is a greater risk.

a GM on the hot seat and a GM brought in fresh are both going to be equally prone to taking big swings with a lot of risk, but for different reasons.

the hot seat GM figures a big swing could save his job, and if not, they won't be around when the other shoe drops. a new GM will want to shape 'their' roster at the expense of quality assets that they don't know as well.

the third option is an in-house promotion (i.e. flynn or nash) + bringing in new blood at the assistant level. maintains continuity/vision, but refreshes processes. creates risk via lack of experience.

choosing door #2 (new GM) is logistically impractical (need to identify/qualify candidates + time the hire so it doesn't impact scouting, drafting, free agency, etc.).

door #3 closed (temporarily) this summer when jarmo kept his job after the babcock stuff.

 

[Marioesque]

For sure but for me Jarmo's made enough bad decisions in the last couple years that keeping him is a greater risk.

Team is going in the right direction, so how bad were the decisions?

 

[CBJx614]

I think most Jarmo critics here realize all of this and would be still willing to take the gamble.

And even if the new guy turns out to be a bad hire, my way of looking at it is that in the long run it's better to do your mistakes sooner rather than later (replacing a bad GM with another bad GM after this season is better for the organisation than doing it later).

There's varying degrees to that though. Jarmo hasn't made any last ditch desperation moves to keep his job or to swing for the fences. I think Jarmos plan became a lot easier to execute once we landed Fantilli and shored up the defensive side of things. I think the only way he gets the boot this off-season is if we have a bottom 5-10 finish.

 

[majormajor]

choosing door #2 (new GM) is logistically impractical (need to identify/qualify candidates + time the hire so it doesn't impact scouting, drafting, free agency, etc.).

GM replacement often happens during the season and doing it now would be relatively good timing, several months before the trade deadline. It's better now than going into the end of the year with a lame duck GM and having to do the draft and FA in that situation.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

GM replacement often happens during the season and doing it now would be relatively good timing, several months before the trade deadline. It's better now than going into the end of the year with a lame duck GM and having to do the draft and FA in that situation.

completely agree, but part of the impracticality of it comes down to:
1. the fact that jarmo and JD are still under contract
2. the fact that they're still paying two guys (lars + babcock) to not coach
3. the fact that most qualified external candidates are under contract

that leaves them with only candidates who are not under contract, which either means they're not qualified, have baggage, are currently retired, or a combination of all three.

 

[stevo61]

Dorion is available

 

[Cowumbus]

Dorion is available

Pass

 

[VT]

Jarmo has had his job for years. He has reached the second round of the playoffs once. I was a Jarmo fan. But the last several years Jarmo has been awful.

Jarmo deserves absolutely no credit for drafting very highly rated guys like Jiricek and Fantilli the last two years. Any GM could have done that with really high draft picks from having bad seasons. Anybody on this board would have made those picks. Those bad seasons weren’t intentional - Jarmo was trying to win, but he built teams with horrible defense and horrible goal tending and those teams finished way behind most teams. So don’t tell me Jarmo is awesome because he drafted a consensus #2 draft pick with the third pick after we were so atrocious.

Yes. It is time for a new GM to come in and evaluate our talent that we largely accumulated through sucking, and figure out how to move forward.

If I sucked at my job for the last 4 years I would expect to be fired. In my office if I had hired a creepy guy who searched young people’s phones, I would be fired for that alone. But we have accountability where I work.

Our defense:

Werenski, Jones
Gavrikov, SAVARD
MURRAY/Nuutivara/Kukan

With the exception of Savard and Murray, it was Jarmo who built the defense more. Now it's our defense

Werenski, Severson
Provorov, Jiříček
Bean, Gudbranson
Boqvist/Peeke/Blankenburg/Svozil (not including juniors)

so much for defense.

To acquire players. Maybe you haven't noticed, but we are not Tampa, Florida, Rangers, Colorado and similar teams that just point to a player and he will come. We have to pay over. We also never had a chance to get centers like McDavid, Eichel, Barkov, Mackinnon, Hughes, Matthews or Hischier. And it is thanks to them that their teams have solved perhaps the most important spot together with the goalie.

Or do you have another solution? I would like to hear how we were supposed to get TOP centers, players who agreed to a lower salary. Or as behind Johnson or Jiříček there were AHL level players, so Jarmo had an easy decision. Alternatively, the strategy of building a team, maintaining PLD, preventing injuries, etc. Yes, he made a mistake with the appointment of Larsen and Babcock. But he's not the only GM whose HC pick didn't work out.

EDIT: You always have to start from the possibilities that the team has. And also because of the wishes of the owners. Remember how in the past the management wanted the team to play in the PO, so instead of building the team we took veterans. Only in the last year, Howson could start to tank. That certainly applied to Jarmo. Torts is not here because the team is trying to get places in the TOP 5, or even in the TOP 3 several times in a row.

 

[majormajor]

completely agree, but part of the impracticality of it comes down to:
1. the fact that jarmo and JD are still under contract
2. the fact that they're still paying two guys (lars + babcock) to not coach
3. the fact that most qualified external candidates are under contract

that leaves them with only candidates who are not under contract, which either means they're not qualified, have baggage, are currently retired, or a combination of all three.

What we've seen a lot of clubs do is run with an interim GM until they feel comfortable with who they're bringing in. That sounds better to me than running with a lame duck who is desperately trying to save their job.

 

[Cheddarcheese]

Jarmo has done a great job! He went all in trying to give us a cup a few years back and we already have a more exciting team then we did back then.. excited for the next 10 years!

Best days are ahead of us!

 

[Cyclones Rock]

These two posts back to back are indicative of… pretty much the nature of public discourse these days.

I'm sorry that supporting someone and pointing out the legions of Jarmo defenders doesn't meet up to your high standard of public discourse. LOL. Give it a rest, snarky.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

No. We've got an old man yelling at clouds and building magnificent scarecrows because they're easier to burn down than real facts, being rebutted by people who have a connection to reality. You've added a couple nails yourself.

Jarmo and JD absolutely should have been fired over the Babcock debacle. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. But koteka is trolling and misrepresenting, and being rightfully called on it.

So criticism of a GM with a pathetic W/L record, virtually no playoff success, and errors so numerous that I won't bother to list them is trolling? You go, young girl! LOL

 

[cbjthrowaway]

So criticism of a GM with a pathetic W/L record, virtually no playoff success, and errors so numerous that I won't bother to list them is trolling?

jarmo's been GM for 10 seasons. he took over a last-place team that had repeatedly whiffed on high picks… then made the playoffs in five of his first seven years.

i don't have a problem with people taking issue with some of jarmo's moves lately but let's not act like he hasn't done a good job overall in his tenure here.

You go, young girl! LOL

i don't think the "old man yells at cloud" comment was referring to you, but hey, if the shoe fits…

 

[Cyclones Rock]

jarmo's been GM for 10 seasons. he took over a last-place team that had repeatedly whiffed on high picks… then made the playoffs in five of his first seven years.

i don't have a problem with people taking issue with some of jarmo's moves lately but let's not act like he hasn't done a good job overall in his tenure here.

i don't think the "old man yells at cloud" comment was referring to you, but hey, if the misogynistic shoe fits…

You must have extraordinarily low standards to really believe that Jarmo has done "a good overall job here". He would have been fired by almost every other NHL franchise by now. No, make that every single one.


Tit for tat on the old man/young girl comment-I know it wasn't directed at me. But, nice knee jerk response on your part.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm sorry that supporting someone and pointing out the legions of Jarmo defenders doesn't meet up to your high standard of public discourse. LOL. Give it a rest, snarky.

Lol indeed

 

[CBJx614]

You must have extraordinarily low standards to really believe that Jarmo has done "a good overall job here". He would have been fired by almost every other NHL franchise by now. No, make that every single one.


Tit for tat on the old man/young girl comment-I know it wasn't directed at me. But, nice knee jerk response on your part.

That's a reach. If he's let go I guarantee you he'll be a GM elsewhere within 6-12 months.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I think people need to take a breath. It’s game 9. About to be game 10. We all know Jarmo’s past and I don’t think it’s unfair to call for his job, but that’s just not going to happen at this point in time. If it was, they would have done it after Babcock.

It’s only November, people. Breathe

 

[squashmaple]

So criticism of a GM with a pathetic W/L record, virtually no playoff success, and errors so numerous that I won't bother to list them is trolling? You go, young girl! LOL

Oh, does this come with a condescending head pat, too? I'm so lucky to be acknowledged.

I'm also right.

 

[JacketsDavid]

That's a reach. If he's let go I guarantee you he'll be a GM elsewhere within 6-12 months.

In the NHL?
Again just my opinion but I'm not sure on that. He's good at trading (that's his great ability), but well below par in hiring coaches and just general roster construction is maybe par and that is generous. Drafting is above average but let's be honest when you get high draft picks and don't usually have a deep roster (that is changing now) then it's easier to to have mid round picks play in the NHL earlier than other teams.

He seems to win most trades on paper. Team is usually where it is in the standings and he spends quite a bit of money to get that result. That is where I think he is successful.

jarmo's been GM for 10 seasons. he took over a last-place team that had repeatedly whiffed on high picks… then made the playoffs in five of his first seven years.

i don't have a problem with people taking issue with some of jarmo's moves lately but let's not act like he hasn't done a good job overall in his tenure here.

i don't think the "old man yells at cloud" comment was referring to you, but hey, if the shoe fits…

He's made the playoffs in half the years in a league where (before recently) more than half the teams make the playoffs each year?
Also he inherited a pretty decent team (for CBJ standards) not like the cupboards were bare.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

That's a reach. If he's let go I guarantee you he'll be a GM elsewhere within 6-12 months.

I'd love to take a bet on that "guarantee". What other team would have retained him for this long?

Look at his overall record-sub .500. Look at his playoff "success"-one real round of playoff victory. Had Stan Bowman not given Panarin away, then it might be the big goose egg for Jarmo in the playoffs.

Look at his handling of coaches....Torts wanted out-made him stay because he wouldn't give on a financial settlement. Hired Larsen. Hired Babcock. 3 incredibly poor decisions in a row.

His drafting record is mediocre. His administrative abilities-remember the Horton insurance fiasco-aren't anything to write home about.

His current team will probably go for its fourth year without a playoff berth in a 50% make playoffs league. It's his team entirely that won't go for the 4th year. Not anyone's fault but his.

His Elvis and Wennberg contracts have been disasters. Other than Jones, his long term signings are in the "iffy" category. Werenski hasn't lived up to his deal-injuries have impacted him obviously. Severson at 8 years is ludicrous. Gubranson at $4m for 4 years-not so good. Johnny Hockey may become an albatross as well. I will give him credit for the Seth Jones deal.

His handling of RFAs was pathetic with Johansen and Anderson.

Everyone is real high on the U22s. Most of the time, these "can't miss" prospects miss. Other than Fantilli, there's not a single one that looks like a guaranteed NHL high performer to me. I haven't seen enough of Jiricek to make any judgement on him as a "can't miss".

Not exactly a resume that strikes me as a quick hire for the NHL after his dismissal from the CBJ after this season.

 

[Cheddarcheese]

I'd love to take a bet on that "guarantee". What other team would have retained him for this long?

Look at his overall record-sub .500. Look at his playoff "success"-one real round of playoff victory. Had Stan Bowman not given Panarin away, then it might be the big goose egg for Jarmo in the playoffs.

Look at his handling of coaches....Torts wanted out-made him stay because he wouldn't give on a financial settlement. Hired Larsen. Hired Babcock. 3 incredibly poor decisions in a row.

His drafting record is mediocre. His administrative abilities-remember the Horton insurance fiasco-aren't anything to write home about.

His current team will probably go for its fourth year without a playoff berth in a 50% make playoffs league. It's his team entirely that won't go for the 4th year. Not anyone's fault but his.

His Elvis and Wennberg contracts have been disasters. Other than Jones, his long term signings are in the "iffy" category. Werenski hasn't lived up to his deal-injuries have impacted him obviously. Severson at 8 years is ludicrous. Gubranson at $4m for 4 years-not so good. Johnny Hockey may become an albatross as well. I will give him credit for the Seth Jones deal.

His handling of RFAs was pathetic with Johansen and Anderson.

Everyone is real high on the U22s. Most of the time, these "can't miss" prospects miss. Other than Fantilli, there's not a single one that looks like a guaranteed NHL high performer to me. I haven't seen enough of Jiricek to make any judgement on him as a "can't miss".

Not exactly a resume that strikes me as a quick hire for the NHL after his dismissal from the CBJ after this season.

Lmao he's one of the best GM in the league lets talk about all the good he's done.

Boone at 3.7 lol

provorov at 4.7 easy flip next year

gavrikov for a 1st

savard for 1st and 3rd

PLD for laine


our team has so much talent and the next 7 years are going to be so fkn exciting

 

[CBJx614]

In the NHL?
Again just my opinion but I'm not sure on that. He's good at trading (that's his great ability), but well below par in hiring coaches and just general roster construction is maybe par and that is generous. Drafting is above average but let's be honest when you get high draft picks and don't usually have a deep roster (that is changing now) then it's easier to to have mid round picks play in the NHL earlier than other teams.

He seems to win most trades on paper. Team is usually where it is in the standings and he spends quite a bit of money to get that result. That is where I think he is successful.


He's made the playoffs in half the years in a league where (before recently) more than half the teams make the playoffs each year?
Also he inherited a pretty decent team (for CBJ standards) not like the cupboards were bare.

Someone like Yzerman has this reputation as building winners, but hes got 100 more games as GM then Jarmo but only 50 more wins.

I'd love to take a bet on that "guarantee". What other team would have retained him for this long?

Look at his overall record-sub .500. Look at his playoff "success"-one real round of playoff victory. Had Stan Bowman not given Panarin away, then it might be the big goose egg for Jarmo in the playoffs.

Look at his handling of coaches....Torts wanted out-made him stay because he wouldn't give on a financial settlement. Hired Larsen. Hired Babcock. 3 incredibly poor decisions in a row.

His drafting record is mediocre. His administrative abilities-remember the Horton insurance fiasco-aren't anything to write home about.

His current team will probably go for its fourth year without a playoff berth in a 50% make playoffs league. It's his team entirely that won't go for the 4th year. Not anyone's fault but his.

His Elvis and Wennberg contracts have been disasters. Other than Jones, his long term signings are in the "iffy" category. Werenski hasn't lived up to his deal-injuries have impacted him obviously. Severson at 8 years is ludicrous. Gubranson at $4m for 4 years-not so good. Johnny Hockey may become an albatross as well. I will give him credit for the Seth Jones deal.

His handling of RFAs was pathetic with Johansen and Anderson.

Everyone is real high on the U22s. Most of the time, these "can't miss" prospects miss. Other than Fantilli, there's not a single one that looks like a guaranteed NHL high performer to me. I haven't seen enough of Jiricek to make any judgement on him as a "can't miss".

Not exactly a resume that strikes me as a quick hire for the NHL after his dismissal from the CBJ after this season.

I assume you think Yzerman is a pretty shitty GM too then?

The heralded Stevie Y has about 100 more games as a GM yet only has a out 40 more wins or just over 100 points total in that time which is essentially one seasons worth of games.


I'll even add that Yzerman went through two rebuilds in two much more desirable markets (no income tax, Florida weather and hockeytown with a storied history)

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Also he inherited a pretty decent team (for CBJ standards) not like the cupboards were bare.

he inherited a team that:
- was in last place at the time (mid 12-13)
- had finished dead last by a big margin the year prior (11-12)
- had repeatedly whiffed on high draft picks (filatov, brule, picard)
- traded away the only one of those high picks that was a hit (voracek)
- had just gone through the carter & nash trades

that's not to say he didn't inherit some good pieces – johansen, murray, dubinsky, bobrovsky, foligno – but with the exception of bob the actual core pieces on jarmo's best teams (panarin, jones, werenski, pld) were jarmo guys.