GDT: Game 78: Coyotes @ Kraken- 7:00pm - BSAZX - Tossed Salads and Scrambled Eggs Edition

[PainForShane]

I was being sarcastic. In the last 10 years the Avs had one bad season at 48 points, one at 82, the rest 90 points or more, a few at 110+. Its not like they were bad for 5 years in a row.

I like building through the draft, but BA wasted the first year, next year we are in year 4. We also had 2 young players in Chych (top4D, maybe top 2D), and DVO (3C maybe 2C). Its great that Maccelli has come along and we have high hopes for Guenther too, but they are wingers. Hopefully Cooley will turn out well but it will likely take time, we are seeing that with Hayton now, he might be a 2C. We need more top 4D and potential for top 2Cs in the pipeline, other than Cooley, I don't see it yet.

Honestly seems like we're agreeing here more than not despite the sarcasm ha. But, next year is year 3 of the rebuild, not year 4. BA's first year we weren't rebuilding -- if you remember we'd arguably made the playoffs the year before when Chayka quit (play-in), Bill took a year to see what he had, only then was he like, "Nope let's trade everyone." You can argue that Bill wasted his first year (on the whole I prob agree with you), but he clearly didn't start rebuilding the day he got here -- so next season is 4th year of BA's tenure, year 3 of the rebuild.

Re: the rest of it, agree that we need more high end D and C (also maybe a goalie), agree you build through the draft. Like you said you don't need to be bad for 5 years in a row, but being bad helps pick position so better chance for superstars (never a bad thing). And sure like you said Colorado wasn't among the league worst for 5 years in a row, but there was a run where they only made playoffs once in seven years, if they HAD been closer to the bottom of the standings some of those years maybe they would've drafted someone like PLD instead of Tyson Jost (2016) and they would've had a homegrown 2C this entire time. Their roster is obviously very good, but could've been even better.

Obvi a lot of ifs and maybes. But since finishing worse helps picking higher which means better chance of superstars, and if you're not making the playoffs anyway why not just do that a few years in a row, you know? Esp if your home arena only seats 5000 anyway. Of course finishing very low in the standings doesn't guarantee anything, but imo it helps chance of actually winning a cup or two once you get to contender status.

And of course you need to balance that with actually playing hard and putting on a good effort for the fans, this is a game thread and last game was awful. But for me I'm not as worried about it because we've had effort most nights this year, and the player we're able to draft is more important to our future anyway

 

[IronFinn]

Anyone else think that Schmaltz has been one of the worst players on the ice the last couple of games?

I am a fan of his, but he seems completely checked out and his play is dragging down Keller and Hayton.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Anyone else think that Schmaltz has been one of the worst players on the ice the last couple of games?

I am a fan of his, but he seems completely checked out and his play is dragging down Keller and Hayton.

He's been streaky most of his career, hasn't he?

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Anyone else think that Schmaltz has been one of the worst players on the ice the last couple of games?

I am a fan of his, but he seems completely checked out and his play is dragging down Keller and Hayton.

I agree...was hoping that Keller could break Tkachuk's 86pt record, but without some solid contributions from Schmaltz, he's not going to get it, especially since 2 of the remaining games are against Seattle, they play a similar style to Dallas which gives us a lot of trouble.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

He's been streaky most of his career, hasn't he?

Streaky yes, but too often (of late) he’s been a detriment. I have not seen that from him before.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Streaky yes, but too often (of late) he’s been a detriment. I have not seen that from him before.

I have. When he signed his contract extension with Chayka, that's when he fell off the cliff performance-wise. It was a red flag for me then, and it's why I've always been open - even enthusiastic - about trading him if we can.

 

[PuckLife]

Anyone else think that Schmaltz has been one of the worst players on the ice the last couple of games?

I am a fan of his, but he seems completely checked out and his play is dragging down Keller and Hayton.

I was just speculating with a budy on whether or not he's injured.

 

[Jamieh]

I was just speculating with a budy on whether or not he's injured.

It would be downright silly to be playing an injured player at this point in the season.

 

[cobra427]

Anyone else think that Schmaltz has been one of the worst players on the ice the last couple of games?

I am a fan of his, but he seems completely checked out and his play is dragging down Keller and Hayton.

Nothing to play for, he has nothing to prove, he is mailing it in a little, it happens when you are out of the playoffs to vets.

 

[cobra427]

Honestly seems like we're agreeing here more than not despite the sarcasm ha. But, next year is year 3 of the rebuild, not year 4. BA's first year we weren't rebuilding -- if you remember we'd arguably made the playoffs the year before when Chayka quit (play-in), Bill took a year to see what he had, only then was he like, "Nope let's trade everyone." You can argue that Bill wasted his first year (on the whole I prob agree with you), but he clearly didn't start rebuilding the day he got here -- so next season is 4th year of BA's tenure, year 3 of the rebuild.

Re: the rest of it, agree that we need more high end D and C (also maybe a goalie), agree you build through the draft. Like you said you don't need to be bad for 5 years in a row, but being bad helps pick position so better chance for superstars (never a bad thing). And sure like you said Colorado wasn't among the league worst for 5 years in a row, but there was a run where they only made playoffs once in seven years, if they HAD been closer to the bottom of the standings some of those years maybe they would've drafted someone like PLD instead of Tyson Jost (2016) and they would've had a homegrown 2C this entire time. Their roster is obviously very good, but could've been even better.

Obvi a lot of ifs and maybes. But since finishing worse helps picking higher which means better chance of superstars, and if you're not making the playoffs anyway why not just do that a few years in a row, you know? Esp if your home arena only seats 5000 anyway. Of course finishing very low in the standings doesn't guarantee anything, but imo it helps chance of actually winning a cup or two once you get to contender status.

And of course you need to balance that with actually playing hard and putting on a good effort for the fans, this is a game thread and last game was awful. But for me I'm not as worried about it because we've had effort most nights this year, and the player we're able to draft is more important to our future anyway

We agree on a lot for sure. I just think the most important positions are top 2C and top 4D, followed by 3C. DVO/Chych were young, now they are out. It's just hard to get players at those positions.

I agree with BA, accumulate picks and build through the draft, he has patience. He has too much patients in other aspects, waited a year too long on the tear down/OEL/Chych trades.

I think we are past all that now, I hope we keep our core and draft C's and D's moving forward. But, if we miss the playoffs again next year, it is 4 years in a row under BA. I wonder what the plan was and what he told ownership? Did BA say, we likely won't make the playoffs the next 4 years but in year 5 we will? We all realize that getting into the playoffs is step 1, it likely is the third year in the playoffs, once we have experience that we start being a threat to get to the WCF or finals. That would be year 7 when we can really make noise in BAs tenure. Was that the plan he laid out?

I think BA has a 5 year deal, so in year 5 if we make the playoffs, he has hit his goal if that is what he outlined to ownership.

 

[Jakey53]

Well yeah, but Avs weren't considered a very good team / cup contender before they started making the playoffs every year (5 years after drafting MacK), the point is they needed 5 years after drafting MacK to become a very good team, not just for his development but also to draft other good players like Rantanen and Makar.

We drafted Cooley last year. Our rebuild started that one summer we traded Kuemper / Dvorak etc... which was 2021 offseason. Feels a lot longer but there it is. Anyway, this summer we'll be entering the second offseason of the BA rebuild, 2023-2024 season will be year 3 etc.

Anyway in my view if we're not going to be playoff competitive anyway who cares as long as the guys play hard (which did not happen last night). Big picture wise, to me it's much more important to draft a future superstar in 2024 than to care about whether we finish 26th or 32nd overall at the end of 2023 (though that is part of getting a better pick).

Put another way, we won't be a playoff team for a while anyway so imo the next few drafts matter much more than where we finish on the ice, even if it's bottom 5 again. That's just my opinion

Every team is different when it comes to rebuilds and many factors can enter the equation on how the rebuild goes. Injuries and goal tending are two biggies. Anyway, I agree that this past draft and the next two are very important for this franchise, and there could be stumbling blocks along the way, but I would like to see improvement on ice every year. I figured the Yote's would end up 5-7th from bottom this year and I would hope they end up next year 9-12th. Then it starts to get harder, but we should be a bubble team the following year or the year after. But, if we end up lower next year than this year, I would call it a failure. It could happen, and like I said, many factors will contribute where we end up. As usual, time will tell.

This was an audition for Prosvetov and he has been terrible the last 2 starts. Being that he is arbitration eligible, I can't see the Coyotes keeping him unless they see something they could resurrect.

AT kind of threw him under the bus as well.

 

[Jakey53]

I have. When he signed his contract extension with Chayka, that's when he fell off the cliff performance-wise. It was a red flag for me then, and it's why I've always been open - even enthusiastic - about trading him if we can.

I think Schmaltz is as good as gone this off season. His age and contract does not fit BA's rebuild. The problem is, who will want him and that contract. He's soft and a winger.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I think that it was a mistake (in hindsight) to keep playing Schmaltz at C. Didn't he get better after they just declared him a winger?

 

[lanky]

I think that it was a mistake (in hindsight) to keep playing Schmaltz at C. Didn't he get better after they just declared him a winger?

He did get better after the full-time transition to RW.
I wouldn't call it a mistake though. It takes time and experimentation to find the right fit.

 

[cobra427]

I think Schmaltz is as good as gone this off season. His age and contract does not fit BA's rebuild. The problem is, who will want him and that contract. He's soft and a winger.

Schmaltz is a solid player in all aspects of the game. I hope we keep him but BA might start shopping him this summer in hopes we can trade him by the TDL in 2025. There will be suiters for Schmaltz for sure. BA needs to not keep trading all the decent players. Schmaltz is still young and can be as good as he is now for the next 5 years.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

ok, what top 6 squad would you prefer?

Keller/Hayton/Schmaltz
Maccelli/Cooley/Guenther

or

Keller/Hayton/Guenther
Maccelli/Cooley/Crouse

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Schmaltz is still young and can be as good as he is now for the next 5 years.

In hockey years, he's in his prime, not "young." That means that he's an eminently movable asset for a team that's still rebuilding.

 

[Schemp]

ok, what top 6 squad would you prefer?

Keller/Hayton/Schmaltz
Maccelli/Cooley/Guenther

or

Keller/Hayton/Guenther
Maccelli/Cooley/Crouse

What happen to the other 3?
GMBA wants 9 top 6 players!

Keller Hayton Schmaltz
Maccelli Cooley Crouse
Geekie Fantilli Guenther

and McBain Fischer to round out the 11 Fs

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

What happen to the other 3?
GMBA wants 9 top 6 players!

Keller Hayton Schmaltz
Maccelli Cooley Crouse
Geekie Fantilli Guenther

and McBain Fischer to round out the 11 Fs

I was just saying that if BA decided to get rid of Schmaltz...what that would look like and so would our top 6 be better w/or without Schmaltz

 

[MIGs Dog]

I was just saying that if BA decided to get rid of Schmaltz...what that would look like and so would our top 6 be better w/or without Schmaltz

Next year, better with Schmaltz. However, I'm not opposed to a trade. We need to think 3+ years into the future.

 

[Jakey53]

He did get better after the full-time transition to RW.
I wouldn't call it a mistake though. It takes time and experimentation to find the right fit.

They tried him at C in Chicago which did not work. Same as here.

 

[Jakey53]

Schmaltz is a solid player in all aspects of the game. I hope we keep him but BA might start shopping him this summer in hopes we can trade him by the TDL in 2025. There will be suiters for Schmaltz for sure. BA needs to not keep trading all the decent players. Schmaltz is still young and can be as good as he is now for the next 5 years.

I don't believe Schmaltz fits the Coyote's rebuild, but having said that I'm not sure there will be many suitors giving BA what he wants because he doesn't want to take money back, AND his contract and M-NTC kicks in big time next year. Schmaltz is pretty solid but very streaky, but also a winger. Didn't you say wingers are a dime a dozen?

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

What happen to the other 3?
GMBA wants 9 top 6 players!

Keller Hayton Schmaltz
Maccelli Cooley Crouse
Geekie Fantilli Guenther

and McBain Fischer to round out the 11 Fs

Yean, but Geekie is a long way away...I was talking about in the next 2 years

 

[YotesFan47]

We need quality vets to keep the ranks until kids are ready. Just keep Schmaltz until either his contract ends, or we have his replacement ready. I have zero interest in moving Nick until we have at least 2 players at his level playing RW.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I'm torn. If it weren't for the M-NTC I'd prefer to keep Schmaltz, but because of it I'm willing to trade him before it kicks in.