Post-Game Talk: Game 6: Canadiens 4, Canucks 1 - Wanted: Secondary Scoring, no experience required

[deadinthewater]

Like I said, I didn't remember much being said about it, but your dug up some examples so kudos to you. Thing is, like I said, you can't compare that season and this one. I just don't think the offense will round into form like it did that season.

Let's say the Sedins match their point totals from that season (104 for Daniel, 94 for Henrik) and Edler matches Ehrhoff's 50 points from the blueline. Kesler scored 41 goals and 73 points. We all know he's not going to come close to matching that. They also had a 50 point 2nd line player in Samuelsson. Who is going to match that?

I don't know you get off making the comparison. The Canucks were at the peak of their powers that year.

I think it would make more sense to compare them to the 2012/2013 Canucks teams, which are pretty much the same to the one we have now, no?

 

[Outside99*]

Like Torts and most fans, I review the activities, not the results or some narrative from yesteryear aka that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

The forward depth is awful - there's probably 4 forwards that are unplayable, and we know there are no quality call-ups to be had. They need to sign some legit veteran forwards to contracts asap - even Tallon figured this out in Florida.

Hamhuis is a concern, they should put him on IR if he's not 100%.

Concerned about Luongo's state of mind. Gives the impression of being mentally fatigued. Seems the best scenario is he finishes the season and is bought out. Probably no longer possible to trade him even retaining salary.

Torts mixes the lines / pairings too much. They need to stick with what works.

Let's hope for no injuries to key players.

 

[NuxFan09]

I think it would make more sense to compare them to the 2012/2013 Canucks teams, which have been pretty much the same to the one who have now, no?

Yep, and we all know how the season ended for last year's team.

Some people just aren't comfortable with the fact there are legitimate question marks surrounding this team and would rather everything be hunky dory. That's okay. We're all fans and we can all approach this how we want.

 

[Tiranis]

Some people just aren't comfortable with the fact there are legitimate question marks surrounding this team and would rather everything be hunky dory. That's okay. We're all fans and we can all approach this how we want.

No, it's that every single season the sky is falling 6 games into it. Then last season the sky wasn't falling because we started out 8-2 or whatever and look how that ended up.

I don't understand how anyone can make conclusions on these small samples. For all I know we finish last in the NHL but I sure as hell am not making that determination 6 games in.

 

[Grumbler]

I think it would make more sense to compare them to the 2012/2013 Canucks teams, which are pretty much the same to the one we have now, no?

If we aren't much better than our 2012/2013 team we won't make the playoffs this year and that is guaranteed.

 

[opendoor]

My point is: what's going to get better once we're well underway in the season? I honestly don't think it's a matter of how the team is playing, it's that they simply aren't that good. They're not going to magically be a deeper team. The only way the team gets better is if Luongo goes into beast mode and masks the offensive troubles.

You "it's way too early" folks need to understand something. It's never too early or too late to judge a team when they have very real, practical issues. Again, I don't actually think they're playing all that bad. This is far from one of those bad October starts. Kesler is MIA, there's no depth and we have a goaltender who, understandably, still isn't sure if he wants to be here and who we probably won't see play much better than he is now.

Before anyone accuses me of overreacting or panicking: I'm actually quite fine with this. It's about accepting the stage this team is at.

What's going to get better? Oh, I don't know, maybe Kesler and Higgins won't actually put up 13 points over 82 games, maybe Hansen will score more than 20 points, maybe Luongo will put up sv% that's not in the .800s, and maybe Hamhuis won't play like he's an ECHLer.

 

[NuxFan09]

No, it's that every single season the sky is falling 6 games into it. Then last season the sky wasn't falling because we started out 8-2 or whatever and look how that ended up.

I don't understand how anyone can make conclusions on these small samples.

I think you mistake people criticizing the team and their weaknesses for people claiming the sky is falling. People who think the sky is falling are the ones who expected the world from this team and aren't seeing it, thus it's all doom and gloom for them.

Then there are those who are just calling it like they see it. The sky isn't falling for me at all. Look at Outside99's post above. He's not claiming the sky is falling but he sees the very real issues with the team.

 

[deadinthewater]

If we aren't much better than our 2012/2013 team we won't make the playoffs this year and that is guaranteed.

Well as others have said over and over again, it's 6 games in. No final assessment should be made this early.

 

[NuxFan09]

What's going to get better? Oh, I don't know, maybe Kesler and Higgins won't actually put up 13 points over 82 games, maybe Hansen will score more than 20 points, maybe Luongo will put up sv% that's not in the .800s, and maybe Hamhuis won't play like he's an ECHLer.

Of course these things are going to happen but it won't all add up to a contender suddenly.

 

[CherryToke]

No, it's that every single season the sky is falling 6 games into it. Then last season the sky wasn't falling because we started out 8-2 or whatever and look how that ended up.

I don't understand how anyone can make conclusions on these small samples. For all I know we finish last in the NHL but I sure as hell am not making that determination 6 games in.

I'm sure we'll make the playoffs rather easily. The problem I have is we don't improve. Why does Gillis refuse to add scoring to a team that can't score in the playoffs? do you honestly see this team getting past the first round?

 

[opendoor]

Of course these things are going to happen but it won't all add up to a contender suddenly.

There's a vast gulf between being a contender and being a team that garners a top 10 draft pick (which is where the Canucks' current .500 record gets you).

And besides, that was in response to your assertion that there's no reason to believe that anything will get better further into the season. Every single one of those players will perform better than they already have and most of the rest of the team (save for Santorelli) will likely maintain their current play.

 

[mossey3535]

Adding scoring personnel mostly works only in the regular season. When it gets to the slog of the playoffs, garbage goals are the easiest ones to get. Tort's system generates dirty goals because of the aggressive forecheck and emphasis on getting to the net. We are going to be able to score in both the regular season and the playoffs once we get used to the system.

 

[NuxFan09]

I'm sure we'll make the playoffs rather easily. The problem I have is we don't improve. Why does Gillis refuse to add scoring to a team that can't score in the playoffs? do you honestly see this team getting past the first round?

Exactly. For the life of me, I don't know why people continue expecting different results, even though the team has steadily grown worse. The roster either needs to be greatly improved or the Canucks need to be looking to the future. It's that simple.

 

[just22]

I don't understand how anyone can make conclusions on these small samples. For all I know we finish last in the NHL but I sure as hell am not making that determination 6 games in.

Seriously. So much can happen, even in the last 10 games of the season, that can propel us up or down in the standings that it's a waste of time and energy throwing hissy fits 6 games into the season.

 

[Results]

Exactly. For the life of me, I don't know why people continue expecting different results, even though the team has steadily grown worse. The roster either needs to be greatly improved or the Canucks need to be looking to the future. It's that simple.

Probably because the alternative you're proposing, where teams only should exist as either contenders or rebuild candidates, is a false dichotomy and is really hackneyed and cliché and tiresome.

 

[Bankerguy]

we dont have enough high end youth in our lineup.... to win, you gotta have quality players on entry level contracts.... we have too many plugs

Kesler NEEDS a top 6 winger.... and we need a third line center.


This is what i'd like to see next year

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Shinkaruk Kesler (Vanek)
Higgins Horvat Hansen
Weiss Gaunce Santorelli

Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Bieksa
Garrison Corrado


I think that if our youngers develop and the Canucks can get a legit top 6 wingers like Vanek... they'd be in prime position next year.
Shinkaruk can be carried by his strong linemates, HOrvat would have a lot of help from two solid vets.... that third line could actually do a lot of damage.

 

[NuxFan09]

There's a vast gulf between being a contender and being a team that garners a top 10 draft pick (which is where the Canucks' current .500 record gets you).

And besides, that was in response to your assertion that there's no reason to believe that anything will get better further into the season. Every single one of those players will perform better than they already have and most of the rest of the team (save for Santorelli) will likely maintain their current play.

I do realize the team is going to improve as certain individuals round into form, but I'm looking at the bigger picture here. Unless all the key players on this team somehow find a way to play at their collective peaks this season, I don't expect this team as is to be much of a threat come playoff team, which makes this discussion about the team improving pointless because the goal is to contend for a Cup, is it not?

 

[Tiranis]

I do realize the team is going to improve as certain individuals round into form, but I'm looking at the bigger picture here. Unless all the key players on this team somehow find a way to play at their collective peaks this season, I don't expect this team as is to be much of a threat come playoff team, which makes this discussion about the team improving pointless because the goal is to contend for a Cup, is it not?

There's this thing, the trade deadline, where playoff teams often make big moves to improve their current team due to having accumulated cap space throughout the year. You might be familiar with it due to such moves as bringing in Derek Roy or Higgins and Lapierre.

 

[NuxFan09]

Seriously. So much can happen, even in the last 10 games of the season, that can propel us up or down in the standings that it's a waste of time and energy throwing hissy fits 6 games into the season.

Nobody is throwing hissy fits. It's this kind of hyperbole that's really irritating.

 

[CherryToke]

Adding scoring personnel mostly works only in the regular season. When it gets to the slog of the playoffs, garbage goals are the easiest ones to get. Tort's system generates dirty goals because of the aggressive forecheck and emphasis on getting to the net. We are going to be able to score in both the regular season and the playoffs once we get used to the system.

if by scoring personnel you mean more 3rd liners like Higgins and Booth then yes I would agree, they don't provide scoring in the playoffs.

 

[Tiranis]

if by scoring personnel you mean more 3rd liners like Higgins and Booth then yes I would agree, they don't provide scoring in the playoffs.

I would argue that his post makes a lot of sense. Derek Roy has been a productive forward everywhere except in Vancouver under AV. (Back to being productive in St Louis with 5 points in 4 games.) That's hardly a 3rd liner we brought in last season and he was completely wasted by AV.

 

[mossey3535]

Also I can't believe that nobody has seen the current pattern so far. We play Tort's system, we look dangerous and are creating tons of chances. We don't play the system and essentially revert back to AV's passive system and we look ineffectual, unable to score and get dominated.

But then all people can talk about is that top-6 offensive guy they've been craving since 2006.

 

[NuxFan09]

There's this thing, the trade deadline, where playoff teams often make big moves to improve their current team due to having accumulated cap space throughout the year. You might be familiar with it due to such moves as bringing in Derek Roy or Higgins and Lapierre.

Yes, I've heard of it. If Gillis actually makes a move to bring in an impact player or two, then I'll gladly shut my yap and see where the team goes from there with a bolstered lineup.

 

[hotshot1]

I think we desperately need a top 6 for Kesler. What about Prospal? Yeah he's old but he's been solid for a long time.

Oh and Hamhuis has been so bad even before yesterday's terrible own-goal. I don't even think he's hurt because he's making bad plays, it's all mental.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Also I can't believe that nobody has seen the current pattern so far. We play Tort's system, we look dangerous and are creating tons of chances. We don't play the system and essentially revert back to AV's passive system and we look ineffectual, unable to score and get dominated.

But then all people can talk about is that top-6 offensive guy they've been craving since 2006.

You're also missing another pattern:

We play bad teams and we look dangerous and are creating tons of chances. We play good teams and we look ineffectual, unable to score and get dominated. As it stands, this team is looking a lot like the team we saw in 07-08.