GDT: Game 5: Sharks @ Predators 5:00pm NBCSCA

[Alaskanice]

Benning isn’t awful. He’s better than he’s being given credit for. He is not EK. No one is. He’s a hard worker who has to do more than he should.

 

[Sysreq]

The trend in the NHL for six seven years now has been the need for d-men who can move the puck fast (either with a pass or with mobility).

Would be better if Thrun and Simek were here over Ferraro, Burroughs, Benning who cannot move the puck fast.

We know Simek is injury-prone but he has always been skilled.

Might as well resign David Schlemko while we’re at it.

 

[stator]

Quinn is probably a superb street hockey and beer league coach.

 

[one2gamble]

Quinn is probably a superb street hockey and beer league coach.

Doubtful

 

[weastern bias]

The Sharks will deff get better with Couture and Grandlund, especially the PK but there is a chance. Once this team gets dismantled at the deadline the remaining team might be wild.

Granlund hasn't been an impact player since his Minnesota days, and Couture alone isn't enough to impact winning on a season long scale

One top 6 center and one bottom six winger being played at center doesn't fix a team with 0 game breaking forwards, 8 bottom pair defensemen and 2 goalies who can't can't play like 1999 Hasek every night

We're finishing dead last this year, it's a lock

We were last in wins last year, the NHL just has the stupid point system and lottery that held us away from our deserved top pick

I just wonder HOW far in last we'll be, because there's no longer a question of whether or not it is going to happen

 

[Jts4thgoal]

Granlund hasn't been an impact player since his Minnesota days, and Couture alone isn't enough to impact winning on a season long scale

One top 6 center and one bottom six winger being played at center doesn't fix a team with 0 game breaking forwards, 8 bottom pair defensemen and 2 goalies who can't can't play like 1999 Hasek every night

We're finishing dead last this year, it's a lock

We were last in wins last year, the NHL just has the stupid point system and lottery that held us away from our deserved top pick

I just wonder HOW far in last we'll be, because there's no longer a question of whether or not it is going to happen

They will still be terrible, just not as terrible. Think loosing 5-2 instead of 5-0.

 

[weastern bias]

They will still be terrible, just not as terrible. Think loosing 5-2 instead of 5-0.

Those losses seem generate 0 points in the standings, so I think we still have a shot at breaking the cap era record

 

[DG93]

I am certain we won't be competitive for many, many years. If we aren't fighting for the playoffs with a young, exciting team in 2028, I'll probably have given up on another cycle, like my Canucks friend has since their collapse/rebuild is stalled. But between now and then? It could stay ugly.

I mean, I think the Sharks only entered a full rebuild last year, so it's going to take some time. They need to draft top-3 in 2024 and 2025, develop those prospects + Will Smith, and then see what they've got in terms of a core.

 

[Anomie2029]

I mean, I think the Sharks only entered a full rebuild last year, so it's going to take some time. They need to draft top-3 in 2024 and 2025, develop those prospects + Will Smith, and then see what they've got in terms of a core.

This is a massive concern of mine. Can't remember a player that this club developed effectively.

 

[Alaskanice]

Pavelski, Wingels, Donovan, Friesen, Braun, Tierney, Murray, Demelo, Stalock, Ferraro, Gregor, Nieto. There’s more but that’s all I have at the moment.

 

[DG93]

Pavelski, Wingels, Donovan, Friesen, Braun, Tierney, Murray, Demelo, Stalock, Ferraro, Gregor, Nieto. There’s more but that’s all I have at the moment.

I think you just proved his point. Outside of Pavs, Friesen, and Braun, that's a depressing list.

This is a massive concern of mine. Can't remember a player that this club developed effectively.

To be fair, I don't think they've had a blue-chip prospect like Will Smith (+ others to come) to develop before. Also, in hindsight, Doug Wilson did not really have a development team in place whatsoever. Grier seems to be more focused on that, so hopefully we see some good results. It takes time too...Buffalo has accumulated quite the prospect pool (Thompson, Dahlin, Power, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn, Kulich, Benson) and is still not a contender quite yet. It's a long, painful process that hopefully gives you an 8-10 year contention window at the end of it. Eklund, Smith, Musty, Bystedt, and Muk is a good start, but there's a lot more work to do.

 

[Alaskanice]

I think you just proved his point. Outside of Pavs, Friesen, and Braun, that's a depressing list.


To be fair, I don't think they've had a blue-chip prospect like Will Smith (+ others to come) to develop before. Also, in hindsight, Doug Wilson did not really have a development team in place whatsoever. Grier seems to be more focused on that, so hopefully we see some good results. It takes time too...Buffalo has accumulated quite the prospect pool (Thompson, Dahlin, Power, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn, Kulich, Benson) and is still not a contender quite yet. It's a long, painful process that hopefully gives you an 8-10 year contention window at the end of it. Eklund, Smith, Musty, Bystedt, and Muk is a good start, but there's a lot more work to do.

When we had high picks, the game was different. Rathje, Stuart, Michalek and others bypassed the “prospect “ label and pretty much walked into the NHL.
Their best prospects played immediately:

 

[Barrie22]

Pavelski, Wingels, Donovan, Friesen, Braun, Tierney, Murray, Demelo, Stalock, Ferraro, Gregor, Nieto. There’s more but that’s all I have at the moment.

Pavelski, friesen, Braun, Ferraro, nieto. Weren't really developed by the sharks, they came into the nhl basically directly from the junior, college team.

 

[Alaskanice]

Pavelski, friesen, Braun, Ferraro, nieto. Weren't really developed by the sharks, they came into the nhl basically directly from the junior, college team.

They were still prospects. And these guys all played for a long time. I don’t see what is bad about that.

 

[Barrie22]

They were still prospects. And these guys all played for a long time. I don’t see what is bad about that.

The team did not actually develop them, they had the talent needed to jump straight to the NHL, thats good scouting not good development of a player.

 

[Alaskanice]

The team did not actually develop them, they had the talent needed to jump straight to the NHL, thats good scouting not good development of a player.

Tomato tomatoes.
So, going off of the things she says, is Zach Benson not a prospect??
What does it really matter?
Having a boatload of prospects is for what?? To get players in the NHL. If you have players that do it fast, is that worse than having developed them?

 

[Barrie22]

Tomato tomatoes.
So, going off of the things she says, is Zach Benson not a prospect??
What does it really matter?
Having a boatload of prospects is for what?? To get players in the NHL. If you have players that do it fast, is that worse than having developed them?

Every player drafted is a prospect until a time that they are firmly in the NHL.

But you listed a bunch of players that you said were developed by the Sharks. But they weren't developed by the team, they were developed by there clubs before being drafted.

The Sharks have been pretty bad at turning players that need time in the AHL into regular NHL players. If they do not jump directly into the NHL it is pretty much guaranteed they are not going to amount to much.

 

[coooldude]

I mean, I think the Sharks only entered a full rebuild last year, so it's going to take some time. They need to draft top-3 in 2024 and 2025, develop those prospects + Will Smith, and then see what they've got in terms of a core.

Yes! I agree, definitely. That's why I think it'll be 2028 before we're turning it around, just looking at other full rebuilds in the league. If the team had gotten out from under DW a year or two earlier, we'd be a year or two farther into it. His illness really hurt the process.

Every player drafted is a prospect until a time that they are firmly in the NHL.

But you listed a bunch of players that you said were developed by the Sharks. But they weren't developed by the team, they were developed by there clubs before being drafted.

The Sharks have been pretty bad at turning players that need time in the AHL into regular NHL players. If they do not jump directly into the NHL it is pretty much guaranteed they are not going to amount to much.

We don't have to worry about development if the prospect is ready to jump into the NHL. I would be extremely surprised if Smith does anything other than play 1-2 years in NCAA before making the team, and I don't think anyone is worried about BC. Our presumptive #1-3 overall pick in 2024 will likely have the same profile.

On the topic of our development -- a lot of people say that the Sharks have been really bad at developing players from AHL-> NHL. I definitely know we aren't top of the league, and we probably aren't good. But do we know, definitively, that we are bad compared to other clubs? Do other clubs have a far better record of developing fringe players into solid contributors? I'd like to see the numbers on that and I'm not sure anyone has done any analysis that means anything.

This is what I'd want to see:
- Take the last, I don't know, 10 years of drafts.
- Remove any players that went straight into the NHL, or into the NHL after 1 year in a different professional league that is not the AHL.
- List games played, points for, total TOI, and any other stats we could consider important.
- Analyze each team for how effective they've been at developing their draft picks, normalized for draft position of the player. Were the Sharks bad, but only because we often didn't pick in the 1st round? Or, were we really bad? Were we bottom-half bad, bottom-five bad? were we actually in the 60%ile?

 

[DG93]

When we had high picks, the game was different. Rathje, Stuart, Michalek and others bypassed the “prospect “ label and pretty much walked into the NHL.
Their best prospects played immediately:

Exactly, so the Sharks don't really have a good track record of actually developing prospects, which will need to happen with Smith, Musty, etc.

 

[hohosaregood]

We actually have a development staff now so it'll probably go differently for these guys and Todd Marchant oversaw a lot of defensemen making the NHL for the Ducks.

I'm gonna give them some time before passing judgment on this regime

 

[Cas]

We actually have a development staff now so it'll probably go differently for these guys and Todd Marchant oversaw a lot of defensemen making the NHL for the Ducks.

I'm gonna give them some time before passing judgment on this regime

Yes, any look at the historical record of the Sharks must recognize that we have a new management team in place and that old outcomes may not have any meaning anymore.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Might as well resign David Schlemko while we’re at it.

He would be the second best defensemen on the team right now.

This is a massive concern of mine. Can't remember a player that this club developed effectively.

I randomly wondered about this today too after seeing many other teams have these random kids play so well out of camp they make the team and actually start producing in the NHL. Been a while since that's happened here. Scouting department clearly needs some help.

 

[fasterthanlight]

I mean, I think the Sharks only entered a full rebuild last year, so it's going to take some time. They need to draft top-3 in 2024 and 2025, develop those prospects + Will Smith, and then see what they've got in terms of a core.

Add: expire several contracts with dead cap dollars

 

[one2gamble]

Forum : if a player spends more than a year in the ahl they won't be an impact player at the NHL level

Also forum : the sharks have never developed an impact player because none of the impact players spent enough time in the ahl


Never change guys!

 

[sharks_dynasty]

Forum : if a player spends more than a year in the ahl they won't be an impact player at the NHL level

Also forum : the sharks have never developed an impact player because none of the impact players spent enough time in the ahl


Never change guys!

Yea, we need therapy. The worst part is that we know it!