GDT: Game 43: Avs @ Ducks | 8 PM MT | Ah, The Hell With It

[MonsterMack]

So what went wrong? I remember most people here on board with Bednar being our next head coach. I don't understand the x's and o's well enough to evaluate coaches. Why is he just that bad of a coach?

 

[henchman21]

avs are giving less shots from high-danger areas this year compared to last, they are actually quite a bit better than the league average (and vice versa when it comes to creating them). poor sv% this year is on goalies sucking.

I don't just buy that... Over Roy's whole tenure all the goalies averaged .9216 sv. Bednar... .901. The graph shows location, not necessarily shot quality.

 

[Avs44]

I don't just buy that... Over Roy's whole tenure all the goalies averaged .9216 sv. Bednar... .901. The graph shows location, not necessarily shot quality.

Quality generally is related to location.

 

[JoemAvs]

I find it AWFULLY convenient that every vet just crashed and burned this year. It would be one thing if it was just Iggy and Beauch. Or Iggy, Beauch, and McLeod... but it isn't. It is/was Iggy, Beauch, McLeod, Mitchell, Soda, and Comeau. Every player 30 and over is playing worse under Bednar. Going past that... the only players not playing worse under Bednar are probably MacK, Duchene, and Z. Every other player on the roster is new, or playing worse.




The 2014-15 had a top pairing of Holden-Stuart while EJ was gone. Either people are saying that those two players were not nearly as bad as people said, or Roy coached the hell out of that team. It can't go both ways where Roys sucks and those two sucked.

I'd say the 14-15 team's biggest difference was ROR. And he is probably an added 4-5 point player over the course of a season.



I remember a debate earlier this season where I argued that Roy's system inflated goalie's save percentage... that is turning out to be true.

IIRC Hejda - Barrie were the "real top pairing" back then. And Barrie played so well that I really though that he had a chance of turning into a legit top pairing guy back then.


Also this whole vet comparison is not fair to Bednar.

Roy and Sakic knew exactly what they were getting when they signed all those great vets. 1 or 2 good years and then atleast one extra year where they will suck and not be worth their contract at all. That extra year is how they lured them here in the first place.
This is why we have 10 M locked up into the complete garbage that is Iggy and Beauch right now.

McLeod, Mitchell, etc. were terrible last year as well. The only difference is that last year they had a guy like Skille (at the start of the season) and Matthias (at the end of the season) to play with that overperformed on the bottom 6.

This year they get to play with guys like Colborne, the corpse of Iggy or Soda (whose game simply does not mesh at all with those guys) in front of a way worse defense.


But yeah.

Roy bolted right before the chickens come home to roost and left the mess to Bednar.

You said yourself that Roy knew that this ship would crash and burn this season.

It might not have crashed as hard with Roy but it certainly wouldn't have been pretty either. Roy is not a good coach.

This year changes nothing for me in that regard.


That graph backs up what I am thinking.

Henchy is right when he says that Roy probably had a positive impact on the goaltending but I always felt that the Avs were a bottom 3 team in the league under Roy with the way they were playing.
We won a crazy amount of games under him that we had no business of winning mostly thanks to goaltending.



With Roy gone we seem to have lost that ability but that does not make the performance under Roy any better.

Atleast that graph shows that some part of Bednars plan seem to be working. Even when he has way less to work with.

 

[henchman21]

Quality generally is related to location.

Generally is the key word.

IIRC Hejda - Barrie were the "real top pairing" back then. And Barrie played so well that I really though that he had a chance of turning into a legit top pairing guy back then.


Also this whole vet comparison is not fair to Bednar.

Roy and Sakic knew exactly what they were getting when they signed all those great vets. 1 or 2 good years and then atleast one extra year where they will suck and not be worth their contract at all. That extra year is why they lured them here in the first place.
This is why we have 10 M locked up into the complete garbage that is Iggy and Beauch right now.

McLeod, Mitchell, etc. were terrible last year as well. The only difference is that last year they had a guy like Skille (at the start of the season) and Matthias (at the end of the season) to play with that overperformed on the bottom 6.

This year they get to play with guys like Colborne, the corpse of Iggy or Soda (whose game simply does not mesh at all with those guys) in front of a way worse defense.


But yeah.

Roy bolted right before the chickens come home to roost and left the mess to Bednar.

You said yourself that Roy knew that this ship would crash and burn this season.

It might not have crashed as hard with Roy but it certainly wouldn't have been pretty either. Roy is not a good coach.

This year changes nothing for me in that regard.

Holden and Stuart got all the toughest matchups and minutes. Barrie floated a bit but was mostly used in an offensive role and with Hejda.

Again... if it was JUST Iggy and Beauch, I'd be more inclined to think it was just age. It isn't just them.

I said Roy knew he couldn't win with this roster. Roy wanted playoffs and to win. This team at its very best is an 8-10 team in the West... There are some fundamental issues that Roy felt needed to be addressed that Sakic wasn't willing to tackle.

In any case here I am not saying Roy was a great coach. I've stated for a while that unless you are a very top end coach, they don't make a huge difference. An average coach will get average results considering the roster. A bad coach can ruin a season. Roy never ruined a season. It fell apart after the Wild game, but up to that point, the team was in contention. He wasn't a bad coach, he was just an average coach.

 

[InjuredChoker]

i think hench is right that holden and stuart were the defacto top pairing 14-15 down the stretch.

and iirc, barrie wasn't paired with hejda, he was paired with guenin. redmond and hejda formed the third pairing.

 

[Freudian]

Not surprising. Heavy hit and he bumped his head on the ice.

 

[Avs44]

Not surprising. Heavy hit and he bumped his head on the ice.

I'm sure there are Ducks fans out there screaming "dirty Avs!"


Why Silfverberg thought it was a good idea to jump before Z hit him is beyond me. What did he think the result of that was going to be?

 

[JoemAvs]

Generally is the key word.



Holden and Stuart got all the toughest matchups and minutes. Barrie floated a bit but was mostly used in an offensive role and with Hejda.

Again... if it was JUST Iggy and Beauch, I'd be more inclined to think it was just age. It isn't just them.

I said Roy knew he couldn't win with this roster. Roy wanted playoffs and to win. This team at its very best is an 8-10 team in the West... There are some fundamental issues that Roy felt needed to be addressed that Sakic wasn't willing to tackle.

In any case here I am not saying Roy was a great coach. I've stated for a while that unless you are a very top end coach, they don't make a huge difference. An average coach will get average results considering the roster. A bad coach can ruin a season. Roy never ruined a season. It fell apart after the Wild game, but up to that point, the team was in contention. He wasn't a bad coach, he was just an average coach.

i think hench is right that holden and stuart were the defacto top pairing 14-15 down the stretch.

and iirc, barrie wasn't paired with hejda, he was paired with guenin. redmond and hejda formed the third pairing.

Maybe I am misremembering things in that regard. But I was pretty sure that the last time around when EJ got hurt, Barrie was the one that stepped up, played the most minutes and looked very good.



If you already have useless plugs like Mitchell, McLeod, Martinsen, etc. on your roster, you can not afford to have guys like Soda and Iggy imploding as well. Because the collective suck in the bottom 6 just reaches a critical mass at that point that will kill off any chance of anyone looking even semi-decent or creating any kind of line that could work. So in the end everyone will look worse.

I think the biggest "coaching" issue with Bednar this season is Soda. But IMO he simply does not fit Bednars style at all. Roy loved his slow, lumbering giants. Bednar has no real use for that type of player.

I still think Roys style of play is garbage. I mean even with this epically bad season we are trending up in a few categories compared to where we were under Roy.

That graph above is a good example of it.

Roy had his strengths. I will give him that he had a positive effect on goaltending and that he is one heck of a motivator.

I just do not think you can win consistently the way he had us playing in this league.


Add that he played a huge part in constructing this mess of a roster and I don't regret for a second that he left in August...

 

[The Kingslayer]

Not surprising. Heavy hit and he bumped his head on the ice.

Hopefully hes ok. Head bounced off the ice. Anyone screaming fowl on that needs to stop watching hockey immediately. Besides Z answered the call when he didn't have to.

 

[henchman21]

i think hench is right that holden and stuart were the defacto top pairing 14-15 down the stretch.

and iirc, barrie wasn't paired with hejda, he was paired with guenin. redmond and hejda formed the third pairing.

I think there was floating with Barrie, but he probably did play more with Guenin. I think you are right on that.

Maybe I am misremembering things in that regard. But I was pretty sure that the last time around when EJ got hurt, Barrie was the one that stepped up, played the most minutes and looked very good.



If you already have useless plugs like Mitchell, McLeod, Martinsen, etc. on your roster, you can not afford to have guys like Soda and Iggy imploding as well. Because the collective suck in the bottom 6 just reaches a critical mass at that point that will kill off any chance of anyone looking even semi-decent or creating any kind of line that could work.

I still think Roys style of play is garbage. I mean even with this epically bad season we are trending up in a few categories compared to where we were under Roy.

That graph above is a good example of it.

Roy had his strengths. I will give him that he had a positive effect on goaltending and that he is one heck of a motivator.

I just do not think you can win consistently the way he had us playing in this league.


Add that he played a huge part in constructing this mess of a roster and I don't regret for a second that he left in August...

Barrie played the most minutes, but it was in a pure offensive role. Roy utilized Barrie's strengths... pushing the play and carrying the puck to make the team more dynamic on the rush.

Right now... I don't honestly see any positives in what Bednar is putting out there. This team is still very poor defensively and offensively they are completely neutered instead of just having a single ball.

 

[Ceremony]

Hopefully hes ok. Head bounced off the ice. Anyone screaming fowl on that needs to stop watching hockey immediately. Besides Z answered the call when he didn't have to.

If anyone's screaming fowl it'd be Ducks fans

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

As they should question it. It is up to Bednar to coach him through. Z has never been known for stellar hockey IQ, so he is going to have these moments. When he makes the mistake, it is going to be about coaching these moments out of him. This is how Z is going to learn because that is the type of defensemen he is... high risk/high reward. I'm just saying on a bad team, and with the season lost, this is the time to coach these mistakes out of him. If this team was playing for a playoff spot, he'd get benched for decisions like that.

Which is why I don't see a #1 or top paring defender when I watch him play.

You and me seem to be the only Tippett supporters around here. A lot of people think he's an average, offensively-suffocating coach, but I find him to be an excellent x's and o's guy, his teams give unreal effort, and he really is a stud at developing solid D. Always found it weird he stuck around in Arizona with the ownership and relocation problems, felt he could have gotten a top gig. Still do.

Coaches get a what have you done for me lately treatment more than anyone in hockey. That's why they get fired so fast. He's had great years in Dallas and kept the Yotes afloat for a long time which is amazing considering the crap that goes on there.

If Julien were to be fired.. I couldn't see it but I'd love to have Sakic hire him ASAP. I wanted him last summer too when it was rumoured he was going to be let go by Boston.

Julien would be awesome. I hate defensive coaches but this team badly needs some of that. Hell they just need an experienced coach regardless of style.

Didn't Zetterberg not like Babcock or something?

he's captain? the guy he leaned on the most? I doubt it.

 

[henchman21]

If anyone's screaming fowl it'd be Ducks fans

 

[The Kingslayer]

If anyone's screaming fowl it'd be Ducks fans

Glad someone noticed haha.