GDT: Game 36: NYR@COL | Sat 31 Dec 6:30pm MT | Sun 1 Jan 2017 8am MMT | Start the New Year

[hockeyfish]

Now now guys, it takes a full team effort to play like this.

 

[dahrougem2]

Also you dont seem to remember the 2014 draft very well. That draft was also considered to be extremely weak without much elite talent in it. It was only after the draft and Ekblad's rookie season that he really became elite in the eyes of a lot of people. He was probably a little better then Liljegren/Foote as prospects, but not a lot.

Ekblad was hyped a **** ton in his draft year.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Ekblad was hyped a **** ton in his draft year.

But then everyone said what a terrible #1 he was

 

[22FUTON9]

Ekblad was hyped a **** ton in his draft year.

Actually nah, he was supposed to be a pretty weak first overall pick. Noone really said he was gonna be a franchise defensemen, A lot of people thought he'd end up being a number one with limited upside.

 

[the_fan]

Do you guys really want the Avs to draft a d-man if they get a top 2 or 3 pick? I for one don't because this team can't develop d-men properly

 

[tigervixxxen]

Do you guys really want the Avs to draft a d-man if they get a top 2 or 3 pick? I for one don't because this team can't develop d-men properly

No, because I'm not the greatest fan of Liljegren but they are going to have to eventually. If we can't ever develop one then they may as well disband the franchise.

 

[CobraAcesS]

No, because I'm not the greatest fan of Liljegren but they are going to have to eventually. If we can't ever develop one then they may as well disband the franchise.

I'd say they developed Barrie, EJ, Holden, and are working on Zadorov and Bigras. Zadorov looks like hes moving along pretty much as you'd hope, and that is after being set back by Buffalo a bit.

No they haven't developed a elite #1, but they have developed some guys. Development does not happen exclusively outside of the NHL.

Not saying their system is great, but screaming they can't develop defense is a bit of a false narrative IMO. You also have to pick a few more lol.

 

[JoemAvs]

Do you guys really want the Avs to draft a d-man if they get a top 2 or 3 pick? I for one don't because this team can't develop d-men properly

Of course.
As TV already said. Otherwise we might as well fold the franchise.

I am not as critical of Liljegren as others (still not a huge fan) so I probably would even take the gamble on him this year.

It does not matter how many good-great forwards we draft. We won't go anywhere unless we really improve this blueline for the long haul.

EJ is not getting any younger (or less injury prone) and you clearly can not trade for legit #1 Ds in this league anymore. Atleast not unless you are willing to heavily overpay (which defeats the purpose of drafting forward with the intention of trading them for a D later in the first place) or without getting incredibly lucky (e.g. striking gold on a prospect that was not expected to be as good at the time of the trade (which is unlikely given our record).

I expect us to pick in the top 5-10 next season as well and I will probably riot if we go forward in the 1st in 2017 and 2018...

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'd say they developed Barrie, EJ, Holden, and are working on Zadorov and Bigras. Zadorov looks like hes moving along pretty much as you'd hope, and that is after being set back by Buffalo a bit.

No they haven't developed a elite #1, but they have developed some guys. Development does not happen exclusively outside of the NHL.

Not saying their system is great, but screaming they can't develop defense is a bit of a false narrative IMO. You also have to pick a few more lol.

I'm not saying they can't, they are baby stepping their way into bettering their development. I don't think they can do it as well as other teams but if we can't do it at all it's going to be tough to ever build the franchise. I obviously have some faith that prospects will turn out

 

[the_fan]

I'd say they developed Barrie, EJ, Holden, and are working on Zadorov and Bigras. Zadorov looks like hes moving along pretty much as you'd hope, and that is after being set back by Buffalo a bit.

No they haven't developed a elite #1, but they have developed some guys. Development does not happen exclusively outside of the NHL.

Not saying their system is great, but screaming they can't develop defense is a bit of a false narrative IMO. You also have to pick a few more lol.

And neither of those players you mentioned are a #1 D. I'm talking about Avs inability to find and develop a legit #1 d-man. They haven't done it in their entire history, even going back to Quebec days. Quebec drafted and developed Foote who was a great shut down, defensive d-man, but even Foote wasn't really a #1 d-man. He was a legit #2 top pair guy, like EJ. That's why I'd be worried if Avs drafted a d-man with 1st overall or 2nd overall

 

[McMetal]

If we do get a lottery pick, I frankly want us to trade the pick straight up for a stud young top pair guy/potential #1. There are teams who need high end centermen; we are not remotely one of them. I would trade Patrick or Hischier for an equivalently talented young Dman straight up without hesitation.

 

[agentblack]

If we do get a lottery pick, I frankly want us to trade the pick straight up for a stud young top pair guy/potential #1. There are teams who need high end centermen; we are not remotely one of them. I would trade Patrick or Hischier for an equivalently talented young Dman straight up without hesitation.

Ok who'd you have in mind?

 

[JoemAvs]

If we do get a lottery pick, I frankly want us to trade the pick straight up for a stud young top pair guy/potential #1. There are teams who need high end centermen; we are not remotely one of them. I would trade Patrick or Hischier for an equivalently talented young Dman straight up without hesitation.

Odds are that the guys you could get would not be worth it and the guys that would be worth it probably are not gettable.

So in the end you are better off keeping the pick.

 

[McMetal]

Ok who'd you have in mind?

Hanifin or Fleury from Carolina come to mind immediately. No secret that they need forward help there. Not sure who else would be available, a lot of guys are either untouchable or simply on teams that don't really need forward help that badly.

 

[McMetal]

Odds are that the guys you could get would not be worth it and the guys that would be worth it probably are not gettable.

So in the end you are better off keeping the pick.

Another forward though? We have way more than enough. Picking nothing but centers for years got us into this mess, we won't dig out of it by staying on that path.

 

[JoemAvs]

Another forward though? We have way more than enough. Picking nothing but centers for years got us into this mess, we won't dig out of it by staying on that path.

I am not happy either.

But honestly the best move is probably to trade Duchene and keep the pick and embrace some type of youth movement doing so.

Also Patrick or Hischier could actually fill a need and give us that defensive responsible #1/2C to pair with MacKinnon that we still kind of need. That said. I might still be the only one in here that would pick Liljegren over them just because of need but I am not sure that is a great idea tbh.

I personally think the Avs kind of have to suck next season as well and hit on that pick assuming that it would be one of Dahlin, McIsaac, Wilde, Merkley, etc. ( 2018 looks to be an incredible year for Dmen) if we ever want to realistically compete for a cup.

That is sad but I don't see us getting out of this unless Carolina wants to trade us Hanifin for a decent return(which I highly doubt) or we somehow luck into a legit #1 D some other way (be it Zads surprising everyone or the Avs absolutely nailing a trade or sth.).


Fleury is a terrible idea IMO
I will be very surprised if he ever turns into much more than a middle pairing D. I would not give up Duchene or the pick for anything revolving around him.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Hanifin or Fleury from Carolina come to mind immediately. No secret that they need forward help there. Not sure who else would be available, a lot of guys are either untouchable or simply on teams that don't really need forward help that badly.

If we don't think Duchene gets us Hanifin then a draft pick won't get us that. Fleury is definitely not in that echelon.

 

[cgf]

If we trade Duchene for Serg, 2018 1st, Sherbak & McCarron/Hudon; we should be picking forward with our top pick this year and next year.

 

[Freudian]

Ekblad will be fine, but it's a bit scary giving a young player such a big contract. Comes with different expectations and it's hard for him to develop at his own pace.

 

[McMetal]

If we trade Duchene for Serg, 2018 1st, Sherbak & McCarron/Hudon; we should be picking forward with our top pick this year and next year.

I'm just not that hyped on Serg, personally, nothing really makes me think he's #1 caliber. And it wouldn't be just any draft pick to land Hanifin. A first overall in a weak year is still a first overall. Patrick is a good goddamn player. We clearly need to start moving high end forwards for D, and our presumed lottery pick is, by default, a forward, unless Liljegren rises somehow.

 

[Freudian]

Generally you want to draft forwards early unless it's a can't miss defender and Liljegren isn't that.

You usually don't get a lot of value from a defender until his third year earliest while a forward drafted top three almost always contribute at 19-20 years age.

I get that it sucks that Avs don't have a #1 defender but you can't draft for need where Avs are drafting. If Avs drop to 3rd-4th overall perhaps Liljegren will be BPA but top two you have to go with Patrick/Hischier the way it's looking.

 

[McMetal]

Generally you want to draft forwards early unless it's a can't miss defender and Liljegren isn't that.

You usually don't get a lot of value from a defender until his third year earliest while a forward drafted top three almost always contribute at 19-20 years age.

I get that it sucks that Avs don't have a #1 defender but you can't draft for need where Avs are drafting. If Avs drop to 3rd-4th overall perhaps Liljegren will be BPA but top two you have to go with Patrick/Hischier the way it's looking.

Because the Oilers should be our role model? I just don't get that philosophy. We keep drafting forwards like Rantanen and Jost, falling in love with them, and then wondering why our defense blows. We either need to deal off a sexy forward (and nobody agrees on who that should be around here), start drafting defensemen, or start trading high picks for defensemen.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Jesus christ I can't believe people are debating if Lilljegren or Ekblad or Sergachev or whomever will be a #1 dman or a #2 dman. We barely have any dmen as is, any of these guys would be an upgrade within a couple years of who we have now (and that includes the inconsistent injury-prone Johnson).

 

[agentblack]

In what twisted scenario can we get both Hanifin and Serg?

 

[Iracundia]

Because the Oilers should be our role model? I just don't get that philosophy. We keep drafting forwards like Rantanen and Jost, falling in love with them, and then wondering why our defense blows. We either need to deal off a sexy forward (and nobody agrees on who that should be around here), start drafting defensemen, or start trading high picks for defensemen.

I agree. If Liljegren is a consensus #3 pick and we have the #1, thats close enough for me to take him. It's time this team starts to invest some top picks in D.