Confirmed with Link: Frk re-claimed by the Wings

[BinCookin]

You make many valid points there Bin. My issue is this, barely any mention of the defense. And we both know why, there's no use beating around the bush. Our D is a dumpster fire. And it's a pretty darn important part of a team. That would be like being optimistic about the US armed forces if they suddenly didn't have a navy. I mean sure, the army and air force are top notch, BUT YOU NEED A NAVY. And right now we have two frigates (DK and Green), a broken down destroyer (Kron), a trawler with a hole in the bottom (Ericsson), and a bunch of inflatable rowboats.

Yes can't disagree. Our D needs some serious work!!

I do not think they are the "worst" in the whole NHL, But having a whole team of #3-5 D men.... at best, is just passable.

Would be nice if we could grab a Fowler type.

 

[The Zermanator]

Yes can't disagree. Our D needs some serious work!!

I do not think they are the "worst" in the whole NHL, But having a whole team of #3-5 D men.... at best, is just passable.

Would be nice if we could grab a Fowler type.

Yeah, and that's what annoys me so much about Holland. We SHOULD be able to get Fowler. As has been discussed ad nauseum around here, our needs and Anaheim's seem to align about as well as you can reasonably expect. And they're in the other conference.

So why hasn't it? What's the point of hoarding all these prospects, creating a logjam, when we're just going to lose them to waivers when we run out of options? Frk, Pulkkinen, Sproul, Ouellet, etc. These are the players that should have been leveraged for assets. Not as the main piece mind you, they have far too little value at this point, but as add-ons. But Holland also sits on his hands too long there. These guys all had value when they were younger. They had some wrinkles to their game (which is usually how we were able to draft them), but they also had unique gifts in many cases and wildcard potential. Unfortunately, Holland just waits until they're in their mid-20s and no longer waiver-exempt. Now they have NO VALUE. Remember when we used to hear rumblings that Buffalo was keen on Pulkkinen? Well they didn't claim him for free when they could have today. Speaks volumes.

Here's what I think Holland's fatal flaw is. He has a plan, and it's not necessarily even a bad plan. We've seen many positive fruits come from it (Larkin, AA, etc.). But he seems unable to ADAPT. He sticks to his plan, even when its flaws become apparent.

That's why we have such a logjam on offense, losing players for nothing, and high-quality players being held down (Mantha being the latest). And that's why we have nothing on D. With the exception of DK, and Green to a lesser extent, nothing on the current roster. And little in the pipeline, apart from Saarijarvi and Cholowski. And the jury is still very much out on them.

He planned to build through the draft. Fortunately, that actually worked fairly well with the offense. We have Larkin, AA, Mantha, Tatar, Nyquist, etc. But it has been an abject failure on D. We haven't drafted anyone that could help this D, now or in the near future. Holland's plan had strenghts and weaknesses, and he has failed to adapt to address those weaknesses. And continues to do so.

 

[gretskidoo]

Anaheim needs to free up cap space and Detroit simply can't help them with that because of the Helm signing.

 

[Claypool]

Anaheim needs to free up cap space and Detroit simply can't help them with that because of the Helm signing.

With the way Tatar is playing right now I'm not sure dealing him for Fowler makes the team better.

 

[RedMenace]

Firstly, it's nice to have you back RedMenace.

I agree with what you said. Little bit of respect would make the world a better place for sure. But with due respect, I think you are going little too far in your expectation. People are going to be angry and happy and what not. This is a sports forum at the end. People will be passionate about their team.

I already said how I hate every thread every topic devolves into 'lol KH garbage' since you can't have hockey discussion when hordes of angry army are ready to pounce on you. There is no stuffs to read or get out of when this whole forum is one giant 'bash KH' fest. It is very tiring trying to navigate through and frankly the effort was getting too much for me to enjoy.

However I understand what current situation is and some people are dissatisfied with current state. And there will be frustration spilling over. That's just fact. I think it just comes with territory. If you are here willing to engage, you have expect little bit of that. Although it was getting way out of hand. Hence my outburst which I regret I did at times, it's nice to get some support.

It's funny because I used to be called negative and now called positive, apologist. Reality is I dont have any optimistic or negative view on Red Wings. For me, it's too difficult to predict the future that far. Just like everyone of you I want Wings to win that's the bottom line.

Thanks, Yemack.

And yeah, maybe it is asking too much. Ah well.

 

[Yemack]

Thanks, Yemack.

And yeah, maybe it is asking too much. Ah well.

yeah I think you just gotta pick your battle. If you do not get your message acrossed, dont get discouraged. You certainly are not going to change someone's opinion whether apple is delicious or bad. If you must, I would just engage in discussions to the point you want.

 

[redwings8831]

 

[Dotter]

Lol!

"Ken Holland's 'asset management"

Looks like he knows more than us, after all!

 

[Kyleftlx]

Lol!

"Ken Holland's 'asset management"

Looks like he knows more than us, after all!

It is kinda crazy how much backlash he took only to see the two players get waived again. But some of the backlash was very much earned.

The unfortunate thing for Frk is that unlike Pulkinnen, he never really had a chance with his team. 2 games and he gets the boot. Maybe it was just apparent that he wasn't an NHL player in 2 games, but I would say it's tough to really establish yourself in that short timespan.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

Whelp, both waiver losses seem completely inconsequential so far.

Think the next one will sting a little though if they waive Sproul, XO, or Jurco -- those guys gave a good shot of sticking in the NHL.

 

[chances14]

Whelp, both waiver losses seem completely inconsequential so far.

Think the next one will sting a little though if they waive Sproul, XO, or Jurco -- those guys gave a good shot of sticking in the NHL.

i don't see jurco amounting to much of anything at this point.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Lol!

"Ken Holland's 'asset management"

Looks like he knows more than us, after all!

You say this as the Wings are currently unable to call a player up to replace Vanek because there is not enough cap space to do so.

 

[Frk It]

I don't think Frk ever had trade value, he came on way too late for that. But I'm bummed he couldn't stick with the Canes. I hope he finds a spot in the NHL somewhere.

 

[Bench]

The unfortunate thing for Frk is that unlike Pulkinnen, he never really had a chance with his team. 2 games and he gets the boot. Maybe it was just apparent that he wasn't an NHL player in 2 games, but I would say it's tough to really establish yourself in that short timespan.

That's been the main rub. It's not the "we lost them for nothing" thing, it's that the Wings keep around bottom line vets on a playoff bubble team without exploiting all the cheap talent they groom.

Ultimately it's a fairly low-level issue in regards to the roster, but the criticism feels louder because of the context of losing younger players like Jarnkrok and Janmark in previous years to trades for veteran rentals. No single issue that insidious, but compounded over time and given the roster stagnation and cap crunch, it adds up.

You say this as the Wings are currently unable to call a player up to replace Vanek because there is not enough cap space to do so.

Yes, see, this is a fair criticism and worth discussing.

 

[Frk It]

That's been the main rub. It's not the "we lost them for nothing" thing, it's that the Wings keep around bottom line vets on a playoff bubble team without exploiting all the cheap talent they groom.

Ultimately it's a fairly low-level issue in regards to the roster, but the criticism feels louder because of the context of losing younger players like Jarnkrok and Janmark in previous years to trades for veteran rentals. No single issue that insidious, but compounded over time and given the roster stagnation and cap crunch, it adds up.

Cap Crunch, official cereal of the Detroit Red Wings.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

i don't see jurco amounting to much of anything at this point.

i think he'd stick on another teams top 9. problem with being on the Wings is that there's no room for him there. When he did get a gamee here or there last season, it was mostly on the 4th line, and now with AA taking a spot and Mantha knocking on the door, it doesn't look like it'll get any better for him.

 

[Bench]

Cap Crunch, official cereal of the Detroit Red Wings.

Steve Ott is the misshapen peanut butter piece everyone eats around.

 

[Retire91]

Steve Ott is the misshapen peanut butter piece everyone eats around.

More like the rat turd that made it through quality control

 

[Dotter]

You say this as the Wings are currently unable to call a player up to replace Vanek because there is not enough cap space to do so.

No, I think a winger like Tatar needs to step it up in his absence. Tatar has 1 goal (on pace for 8 goals for the season. Lol) and nobody is talking about it.

That's been the main rub. It's not the "we lost them for nothing" thing, it's that the Wings keep around bottom line vets on a playoff bubble team without exploiting all the cheap talent they groom.

Ultimately it's a fairly low-level issue in regards to the roster, but the criticism feels louder because of the context of losing younger players like Jarnkrok and Janmark in previous years to trades for veteran rentals. No single issue that insidious, but compounded over time and given the roster stagnation and cap crunch, it adds up.

When the "cheap" talent can't even crack a bottom feeding team's roster, then why do you think they "deserved" a fair chance on the Wings when obvously management saw the writing on the wall before you, me, them and everyone else?

As for Jarnkrok and jarnmark (since they are constantly brought up when talking about waived players), they had no future here and KH did, in fact, get a return on them. Ask ownership if the cost of losing Jarnkrok was worth sealing another playoff appearance was worth it... you know the entire family will say yes.

That might not mean anything to you. You aren't cashing checks. But I regress, neither Jarnkrok or Jarnmark was anything DRWs couldn't afford to lose. And I highly doubt their return was worth anything more than they got.

It's basically crying over spilled milk. But yes, this is a discussion forum where we can all come to complain about nothing that has any effect on anything whatsoever.

Steve Ott is the misshapen peanut butter piece everyone eats around.

Still better than Frk. And fills a role that Detroit's soft bottom 6 actually needed. Que the Mantha comments... "but he's taking a roster spot away from Mantha"

/predictable.

 

[Retire91]

No, I think a winger like Tatar needs to step it up in his absence. Tatar has 1 goal and nobody is talking about it.



When the "cheap" talent can't even crack a bottom feeding team's roster, then why do you think they "deserved" a fair chance on the Wings when obvously management saw the writing on the wall before you, me, them and everyone else?

As for Jarnkrok and jarnmark (since they are constantly brought up when talking about waived players), they had no future here and KH did, in fact, get a return on them. Ask ownership if the cost of losing Jarnkrok was worth sealing another playoff appearance was worth it... you know the entire family will say yes.

That might not mean anything to you. You aren't cashing checks. But I regress, neither Jarnkrok or Jarnmark was anything DRWs couldn't afford to lose. And I highly doubt their return was worth anything more than they got.

It's basically crying over spilled milk. But yes, this is a discussion forum where we can all come to complain about nothing that has any effect on anything whatsoever.



Still better than Frk. And fills a role that Detroit's soft bottom 6 actually needed. Que the Mantha comments... "but he's taking a roster spot away from Mantha"

/predictable.

I wouldn't call sending two players that didn't have a future on the team PLUS draft picks for two washed up rentals that had zero impact on the playoff run a return on investment.

 

[Dotter]

I wouldn't call sending two players that didn't have a future on the team PLUS draft picks for two washed up rentals that had zero impact on the playoff run a return on investment.

You have to make the playoffs to have a chance. It is of my 'opinion' that DRWs would have missed the playoffs without Legwand despite Nyquist carrying the team. The help Legwand provided was just enough to push the team into contention.

Remove that element, Wings draft 1 spot lower (and still pick Dylan Larkin). Ownership loses bragging rights and millions. Like I said, that probably means nothing to you. I get it. But on the same token, I doubt Jarnkrok and Jarnmark meant much to the org. Looking how they both are panning out thus far, I'd have to agree with them.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

No, I think a winger like Tatar needs to step it up in his absence. Tatar has 1 goal (on pace for 8 goals for the season. Lol) and nobody is talking about it.

That was not a yes or no question. I stated a fact. Regardless of how Tatar is doing, the Wings are unable to call up another player to fill their roster right now because they are up against the cap.

 

[Dotter]

That was not a yes or no question. I stated a fact. Regardless of how Tatar is doing, the Wings are unable to call up another player to fill their roster right now because they are up against the cap.

The fact is the only purpose to call up someone, who probably isn't ready, is because there are players on the roster not performing... when it should be their time to shine.

Wings did not play 7 defensemen last game. The roster was full and they had 12 forwards skating. Not sure what your point is?

 

[SirloinUB]

No, I think a winger like Tatar needs to step it up in his absence. Tatar has 1 goal (on pace for 8 goals for the season. Lol) and nobody is talking about it.



When the "cheap" talent can't even crack a bottom feeding team's roster, then why do you think they "deserved" a fair chance on the Wings when obvously management saw the writing on the wall before you, me, them and everyone else?

As for Jarnkrok and jarnmark (since they are constantly brought up when talking about waived players), they had no future here and KH did, in fact, get a return on them. Ask ownership if the cost of losing Jarnkrok was worth sealing another playoff appearance was worth it... you know the entire family will say yes.

That might not mean anything to you. You aren't cashing checks. But I regress, neither Jarnkrok or Jarnmark was anything DRWs couldn't afford to lose. And I highly doubt their return was worth anything more than they got.

It's basically crying over spilled milk. But yes, this is a discussion forum where we can all come to complain about nothing that has any effect on anything whatsoever.



Still better than Frk. And fills a role that Detroit's soft bottom 6 actually needed. Que the Mantha comments... "but he's taking a roster spot away from Mantha"

/predictable.

Now that we have the luxury of hindsight we can say Holland played the last batch of prospects damn near perfectly.

The NHL contributors were all held onto:
AA, Tatar, Sheahan, Nyquist, Sproul, Marchenko, XO, (mrazek, Larkin, etc)

The irrelevant were given a chance (ie. Played out their waiver eligibility in the organization) and moved on from:
Frk, Nestrasil, Ferarro, Pulkinnen, McCollum

The redundant NHL players were shipped out for useful assets:
Jarnkrok, Janmark, Backman

 

[Retire91]

You have to make the playoffs to have a chance. It is of my 'opinion' that DRWs would have missed the playoffs without Legwand despite Nyquist carrying the team. The help Legwand provided was just enough to push the team into contention.

Remove that element, Wings draft 1 spot lower (and still pick Dylan Larkin). Ownership loses bragging rights and millions. Like I said, that probably means nothing to you. I get it. But on the same token, I doubt Jarnkrok and Jarnmark meant much to the org. Looking how they both are panning out thus far, I'd have to agree with them.

Legwand got moved to the 4th line by babcock almost immediately. I don't think a 4th line player was critical to making the playoffs that year and I don't think a forth line rental player was worth a prospect with decent trade value and 2 second round picks.