WGR: Friedman: A Scandella trade is something the Sabres 'may have to do'

[sabrebuild]

Or... we just get to keep Risto on our team because he's a good player who brings a unique skill set to the group.

That isn't exactly the history of Botts as a gm to this point, so the concern is reasonable.

 

[lauraP]

can't wait until bogo gets back and proves y'all wrong guy is a beast! we'll need him against the DUcks and NYR and the playoffs

 

[wnysupport]

can't wait until bogo gets back and proves y'all wrong guy is a beast! we'll need him against the DUcks and NYR and the playoffs

Is this sarcasm?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

That isn't exactly the history of Botts as a gm to this point, so the concern is reasonable.

History of Botts?

Outside of one move that had exceptional circumstances... What history/examples are you basing this on?

As for Bogo.... I'm more forgiving than most when it comes to giving players chances - searching for reasons behind perceived bad play. But Bogo is a lost cause. Hopefully he never wears the Sabres jersey again. He might be a really good locker room guy... If that's the case then LTIR him to keep him around as a coach/mascot or something.

 

[lauraP]

Is this sarcasm?

What you think

 

[slip]

We don’t know that he did or didn’t attempt to shed salary. What we do know is that he did not clear bad cap and even if players have been better under Krueger, the lack of cap flexibility and roster improvement is tied to that.

All he had to do was not trade for Vesey.

 

[Dubi Doo]

...and now he's injured.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Attempt doesn't really matter. Buyouts were available if he couldn't move any of the players with 1 year left on their deal. The only one I'm not sure about is Bogo due to his injury.



A buyout of Sobotka would have saved us 2M against the cap next this year at the cost of 1M of cap space next year, when we don't have cap issues. Scandella would have been reasonably easy to move as a pure cap dump. I'm not sure Bogo was buyout eligible due to his injury status, however.

This kind of rolls back to GMJB's lack of a real plan. He obviously intended to move Risto this summer. He added Miller and Jokiharu. And Montour. Without having something solid in place for Risto. I get that the is trying to maximize return, but at some point you have to simply cut some losses. GMs know Buffalo's cap and roster situation. They are simply waiting for it to be an issue so they can offer him even less, similar to what happened with RoR and the 7/1 signing bonus. My guess is we aren't going to get any real value for Risto and this point. J-Bott's will be forced into a move and we'll have to take back some 3M a year scrub forward/D-man and some mid tier prospect and maybe a draft pick.

You think it's amazing that Botterill didn't dump players like Sobotka, Scandella, and Bogosian this summer...all pending UFAs, yet you prefer to have wasted cap space next season amounting to about 4 mil from buying them out? First, there's little point in buying out pending UFAs unless you are about to lose a major impact player from lack of cap space. Second, you are under a false impression that they won't be tight with the cap next season. I'll break it down...

Cap space gained from losing all useless UFAs (except for Girgensons and Larsson) - 20.7 mil

Estimated cap space used from re-signing RFAs and call-ups to fill roster spots...

Reinhart - 5 mil raise
Rodrigues - about .5 mil raise
Mittelstadt - 2 mil raise
Olofsson - 2 mil raise
Thompson - 1 mil raise
Montour - 1.5 mil raise
Pilut - 1 mil raise
Ullmark - 1 mil raise

Total of about 14 mil added to the cap, add Cozens for 1 mil, give Girgensons and Larsson proper raises and add another 2 mil, and now that's 17 mil used out of that 20.7 mil cap space. Add in the 4 mil of totally dead cap space from buying out the players you suggested, and the cap situation is no better off next season than this season.

 

[sabrebuild]

History of Botts?

Outside of one move that had exceptional circumstances... What history/examples are you basing this on?

As for Bogo.... I'm more forgiving than most when it comes to giving players chances - searching for reasons behind perceived bad play. But Bogo is a lost cause. Hopefully he never wears the Sabres jersey again. He might be a really good locker room guy... If that's the case then LTIR him to keep him around as a coach/mascot or something.

I'm sorry if you don't like that "one" trade. But it's the only big trade he has on his record of moving a big player.

When he makes another such move, I will be happy to add that to the list.

There is no need to whitewash the past to enjoy the team and hope for success.

On a side note, the Risto situation has been pretty funny based on all the hot takes from last summer. We actually have a reported ask for a trade by Risto. We actually have depth at his position, making such a trade fairly limited in how it can hurt us.

It's like opposite day of the O'Reilly situation and yet this is the one we do the reasonable thing and wait it out.

 

[Chainshot]

All he had to do was not trade for Vesey.

I mean, I get why he did it. But at the time, there are other candidates who seemed like fits then who I'd rather have had. The tire fire that has been Gusev under Hynes remains the one I pined for and would rather have had stylistically. I think of a line with him, Sheary and Mitts and wonder what might have been.

Marco has played well. He's been responsible in defensive situations. They don't have a lot of what he offers right now on the back end and while over the summer it would have been an easy move to make, they being shorter at LHD and not having a lot of PKers in their mix... it makes moving him at least a cause to pause.

 

[Sabre the Win]

It's quite amazing the refusal of GMJB to even consider using the buyout last summer when there were several candidates.

Or to even attempt to shed dead weight salary.

Imagine if Berglund had just sucked it up and decided to play out the rest of his contract.

I actually do like some of GMJB's moves, but his refusal to get rid of dead weight on the roster and run a team that is carrying 18.6M worth of bad contracts? (Sobotka 3.5 Scandella 4 Okposo 6 Bogosian 5.1) . It's mind boggling the choices he made this summer to keep ALL of these guys on the roster.

I disagree, all those guys except Okposo come off the books at seasons end and we aren't cup competitive quality yet so having those bodies play out one more season isnt detrimental to the overall gameplan. Especially if a few of them can elevate their play and increase their value for us to make some quality moves at the deadline to better ourselves for our cup run next year (after making playoffs this year) rather than pay extra cap money for guys who arent even playing in a season where they arent going for the cup and getting no assets for them.

I think next year is when we start our cup run. Bad contracts are shed and next off season will be so important in who we sign and bring in for what.

 

[TehDoak]

I disagree, all those guys except Okposo come off the books at seasons end and we aren't cup competitive quality yet so having those bodies play out one more season isnt detrimental to the overall gameplan. Especially if a few of them can elevate their play and increase their value for us to make some quality moves at the deadline to better ourselves for our cup run next year (after making playoffs this year) rather than pay extra cap money for guys who arent even playing in a season where they arent going for the cup and getting no assets for them.

I think next year is when we start our cup run. Bad contracts are shed and next off season will be so important in who we sign and bring in for what.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Playoffs this year is a complete possibility, once our burden contracts are shed and we free up cap space I would consider our window starting next year.. Eichel and Reinhart will be 23 and 24 and next off season with all that free space it will be even more important than any off season in the last 8 years.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Attempt doesn't really matter. Buyouts were available if he couldn't move any of the players with 1 year left on their deal. The only one I'm not sure about is Bogo due to his injury.



A buyout of Sobotka would have saved us 2M against the cap next this year at the cost of 1M of cap space next year, when we don't have cap issues. Scandella would have been reasonably easy to move as a pure cap dump. I'm not sure Bogo was buyout eligible due to his injury status, however.

This kind of rolls back to GMJB's lack of a real plan. He obviously intended to move Risto this summer. He added Miller and Jokiharu. And Montour. Without having something solid in place for Risto. I get that the is trying to maximize return, but at some point you have to simply cut some losses. GMs know Buffalo's cap and roster situation. They are simply waiting for it to be an issue so they can offer him even less, similar to what happened with RoR and the 7/1 signing bonus. My guess is we aren't going to get any real value for Risto and this point. J-Bott's will be forced into a move and we'll have to take back some 3M a year scrub forward/D-man and some mid tier prospect and maybe a draft pick.

Trades Nylander for Jokiharju. Re-signed Skinner. Traded for Vesey. Traded for Colin Miller. Signed Johansson. And Botts doesn't have a plan? He clearly had a plan, he upgraded the defense immensely. And why would we buy out anyone? We are cap compliant. Scandella will be moved to facilitate any trade deadline upgrade. Buying out players last summer was pointless. Why the hell would we unnecessarily waste cap space in 2020-2021 to save peanuts this year?

And I love how automatically we know the return for Risto (even though we are probably keeping him all year). You can say Risto will be traded for a cap dump and worthless pieces. Or on the flip side we can point to the trades where Botts traded a 2,3 and 6 for an elite goal scorer. Or a 2nd for a legit top 4 dman. Or a struggling prospect for Joki who looks like a potential #2 dman. Again, why does Botts have to move Risto? He doesn't. And insiders have already said Botts is demanding a huge return for Risto. He is not moving Risto and if he somehow does it will be for a return that blows us away.

Botts trade history has far more wins then losses and his trades are so much better then Murrays it isn't even funny. This off season alone he pulled off 2 heists. A 2nd for Miller is a steal. Nylander for Joki is a steal. The Vesey trade hasn't worked out but thats fine because well we are only 8-2-1.

 

[Buffaloed]

I'm seeing Bogosian on LTIR now.
Buffalo Sabres - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Montag DP]

That isn't exactly the history of Botts as a gm to this point, so the concern is reasonable.

It literally is, considering he hasn't traded Risto yet when everyone was so positive he would be gone by the beginning of the season. You're taking one infamous trade and pretending it represents Botts' entire resume.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

It literally is, considering he hasn't traded Risto yet when everyone was so positive he would be gone by the beginning of the season. You're taking one infamous trade and pretending it represents Botts' entire resume.

If it fits a particular agenda then people can be very selective with the facts...

 

[Matt Ress]

Pool Party and some picks. Let's see what RK can do with a reclamation project.

 

[sabrebuild]

It literally is, considering he hasn't traded Risto yet when everyone was so positive he would be gone by the beginning of the season. You're taking one infamous trade and pretending it represents Botts' entire resume.

I'm not. It's just the only trade of this type that he has made. Its not this complicated.

If we were talking about a trade for a top 6 player using futures, I would say Botts history is pretty good.

Some of you need to read and comprehend, rather than fighting internet wars created in your head.

 

[Dingo44]

It's quite amazing the refusal of GMJB to even consider using the buyout last summer when there were several candidates.

Or to even attempt to shed dead weight salary.

Imagine if Berglund had just sucked it up and decided to play out the rest of his contract.

I actually do like some of GMJB's moves, but his refusal to get rid of dead weight on the roster and run a team that is carrying 18.6M worth of bad contracts? (Sobotka 3.5 Scandella 4 Okposo 6 Bogosian 5.1) . It's mind boggling the choices he made this summer to keep ALL of these guys on the roster.

It's been demonstrated multiple times that Okposo was basically buyout proof this season. The other three contracts you mention all come off at the end of the season - a season we are not having serious cap issues. It's not even hard to understand.

 

[Chainshot]

It's been demonstrated multiple times that Okposo was basically buyout proof this season. The other three contracts you mention all come off at the end of the season - a season we are not having serious cap issues. It's not even hard to understand.

They are up against the cap and dipping into LTIR an it's not even November. They don't have the flexibility to makes moves, which isn't end of the world, but it's also not something to celebrate.

 

[Montag DP]

I'm not. It's just the only trade of this type that he has made. Its not this complicated.

If we were talking about a trade for a top 6 player using futures, I would say Botts history is pretty good.

Some of you need to read and comprehend, rather than fighting internet wars created in your head.

Obviously if you only count players that have been traded as data points, your conclusion will be that Botts trades players rather than holding onto them.

 

[joshjull]

I'm not. It's just the only trade of this type that he has made. Its not this complicated.

If we were talking about a trade for a top 6 player using futures, I would say Botts history is pretty good.

Some of you need to read and comprehend, rather than fighting internet wars created in your head.

I get what you're saying but its hard to call one move a “history”. I have no idea what Botts will do with Risto and I don’t think that trade helps me figure it out one way or the other.

 

[sabrebuild]

Obviously if you only count players that have been traded as data points, your conclusion will be that Botts trades players rather than holding onto them.

I'm only counting facts, not what I hope he will do.

 

[sabrebuild]

I get what you're saying but its hard to call one move a “history”. I have no idea what Botts will do with Risto and I don’t think that trade helps me figure it out one way or the other.

I think it's fair to call it a limited history. But it simply is his history for this type of trade. I agree, I don't think it is very predictive. Partly because I can't imagine him making any bold trades like that for a few years after it blew up in his face and because they are playing well. Why rush now when he was content to watch them suck for two years.

I would say the same thing about most of Botts' moves. He hasn't really established any kind of habit toward a type of move.

Other than to load up on defense.