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Freeman vs. the Preds

Byrddog

Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
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Paint it how you wish this is a terrible situation for the organization. Whos the bad guy? Well I can not in any way support Cigarran and many of the things he has done. In fact he is the reason I stopped being a STH. My interaction with him and Henry. This is a reason Cogen left.

This reaks of a power struggle in the ownership. And if Freeman in the end wants to be bought out Wilson will go with him and Cigarran and the others do not have the means to provide the guarantees financially. Freeman brought Wilson in and Wilson's FirstEnergy Capital Corp has taken it on the chin double over the last few years the tanking of the oil market and the rejection of the Keystone Pipeline being the two large factors. Freeman will at least be restored to his value of shares and 48% IMO. This is going to be a drawn out issue. a couple years in litigation probably. In the end one will stand one will fall. Personally I would like to see Cigarran gone that would be the best option for stability.

Short term I expect a tightening on the budget, last year the group showed a 2 mil profit 24th in the league. 2016 numbers are not out yet but one would think they were profitable again. The value of the team at the end of 2015 was 255 mil so looks like Freeman wants full ownership by the amount in his suit. Regardless Freeman will own 48% again witch is equivalent to 122.4 mil and if he forces the others to buy him out theres a real mess then. Wilson would probably ask to be bought out as well and that would disolve the ownership group since Wilson and Freeman are the only two that were able to pull off the guarantees when the team changed ownership last go round.
 
hido

hido

Registered User
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Jul 26, 2005
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Nashville
If they were making cash calls and not telling Freeman about it and then diluting his equity, well, that's not gonna look real good in court.
 
braindead

braindead

Registered User
Jul 14, 2005
4,028
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The cookie spoke
Guys, this one is easy. Freeman has no giant pile of cash. He isn't rich- nowhere close to it. He has no liquidity for his investment and he has no voice or respect in the group. He got a taste of being a big dog. How does he get bought out instead of sitting for another 10-30 years stewing? Throw feces.
 
Armourboy

Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
19,357
10,719
Shelbyville, TN
It's business, there are no good guys or bad guys, they all do questionable things to get the money they have. Really the decision will probably come down to what Wilson will do. Basically if losing Freeman means losing him they probably are forced to swallow some stuff to keep the team on good footing. If Wilson is on board with buying him out then that is probably what they do. Unless of course they find another large investor that is willing to replace him.

Also wouldn't shock me if the league doesn't get involved in some way. For the commissioner Nashville is one of your success stories for going into non-traditional markets, he won't want to see something happen to that.
 
nomorekids

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
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Nashville, TN
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deanwormer said:
http://www.tennessean.com/story/mon...hearing-predators-ownership-dispute/86446786/

So, the judge says maybe it won't go to the NHL and it'll stay in court..... if it goes that way I'm betting that the NHL will suggest to Mr. Cigarron that he best find a solution before this gets into court....
Click to expand...

Yeah, this move definitely favors Freeman, and his concern that Bettman\the league would do whatever they could to rule in current ownership's favor is likely justified.
 
WartracePred

WartracePred

Registered User
Sep 29, 2009
1,504
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Say what you will about Ciggaran, but if Freeman were still running the show, Weber would be playing in Philadelphia. I doubt Freeman gives Poile the green light to match Phily's offer sheet. Ciggaran was all in from day one. He brought in Cogen and Henry, instituted the gold jerseys, sell out & attendance records were broken, and he set everyone's sights on a Cup run. Freeman was watching the bottom line like a Hawk and wasn't much different than previous ownership.

I hope Freeman's lawsuit is without merit. He is a lawyer, so filing could be about leverage more than anything else. Ciggaran has been great for this franchise.
 
nomorekids

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
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Nashville, TN
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WartracePred said:
Say what you will about Ciggaran, but if Freeman were still running the show, Weber would be playing in Philadelphia. I doubt Freeman gives Poile the green light to match Phily's offer sheet. Ciggaran was all in from day one. He brought in Cogen and Henry, instituted the gold jerseys, sell out & attendance records were broken, and he set everyone's sights on a Cup run. Freeman was watching the bottom line like a Hawk and wasn't much different than previous ownership.

I hope Freeman's lawsuit is without merit. He is a lawyer, so filing could be about leverage more than anything else. Ciggaran has been great for this franchise.
Click to expand...

You're giving credit to Cigarran for a lot of initiatives that were more Jeff Cogen\Sean Henry. I guess if you want to credit Cigarran for anything, it would be bringing those guys in, but again that was really a group decision more than anything.

I also don't know that we can necessarily say that if Freeman were the chair, the Weber thing would have gone any differently, as it wasn't a sole decision. Freeman was willing to literally put his money where his mouth was in terms of guaranteeing a loan to keep the team out of bankruptcy, Cigarran refused and openly said he would let the team go into bankruptcy before he did such a thing. If we're looking at actions\words.

Like I said, I don't know if there's a good guy\bad guy in this one. It might be bad guy\bad guy.
 
nomorekids

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
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Nashville, TN
www.twitter.com
SavageSteve said:
Seems the Preds and the NHL have countered Freeman's filing with a motion to have the suit tossed and settled by Bettman. And it's not the first time Freeman has filed complaints via the NHL process either. Freeman thinks the league is not the proper venue as the NHL would want to quash quarrels to protects image...
http://www.tennessean.com/story/mon...nch-back-court-amid-ownership-brawl/86545762/
Click to expand...

Glad I'm not a judge, because every time I hear each side's pitch, I think, "wow, i've changed my mind."

Maybe Preds have a better chance of beating this than I thought.
 
Preds Partisan

Preds Partisan

Gunga galunga
Aug 17, 2009
3,323
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OK, this last article seems to more closely mirror what my gut was telling me about what was really going down within the ownership group rather than the Freeman narrative.
 
PredsV82

PredsV82

Trade Saros
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Aug 13, 2007
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I still don't see how $38 million of initial investment is now "essentially worthless" due to dilution.

I get it that if $56 million more cash (total, among all investors) has been put in, the value (as a percentage of ownership) of the $38 million shares is a lot less, but shouldn't be "worthless"
 
Adz

Adz

Eudora Wannabe
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Jun 18, 2005
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Right. If $38 million was 48% then the total began at $79 million.
If $56 million was subsequently added, then that becomes $135 million total. $38 million is 28% of that.

So yes, it has been diluted but it's hardly worthless.
 
PredsV82

PredsV82

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Aug 13, 2007
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Adz said:
Right. If $38 million was 48% then the total began at $79 million.
If $56 million was subsequently added, then that becomes $135 million total. $38 million is 28% of that.

So yes, it has been diluted but it's hardly worthless.
Click to expand...

I did the exact same math only to log back on and discover you had beat me to it! Makes you wonder if their ownership agreement doesn't include some unspecified penalty if you don't answer the cash call...
 
Adz

Adz

Eudora Wannabe
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Jun 18, 2005
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PredsV82 said:
I did the exact same math only to log back on and discover you had beat me to it! Makes you wonder if their ownership agreement doesn't include some unspecified penalty if you don't answer the cash call...
Click to expand...

I love the opportunity to do math. Sorry to steal your thunder.

I think EVERY organization of more than 1 person has a little bit of the Social Network factor. It just doesn't make it to the newspapers.
 
PredsV82

PredsV82

Trade Saros
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Aug 13, 2007
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Adz said:
I love the opportunity to do math. Sorry to steal your thunder.

I think EVERY organization of more than 1 person has a little bit of the Social Network factor. It just doesn't make it to the newspapers.
Click to expand...

Not a problem, I was going to post "Adzy, check my math" had i done it first:laugh:
 
Byrddog

Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
7,483
827
Reguardless of the % Freeman owns the amount is still substancial. If he can prove Cigarran diluted his share in the manner that has been indicated and he was essentially blackballed there is a problem. If the league does not make Freeman whole today he will probably file a civil suit in court and the league would be included as well. this is something Bettman will not want if there is a decision today one way or another Cigarran or Freeman will be leaving. Which onew is bought out and where the money comes from is the question. If Freeman and Wilson both ask to be bought out Bettman has a big problem. Again these two are the only ones in the ownership group that could obtain the finical guarantees when the team was sold at 175 mil. If Forbes is correct the team now is valued at 250 mil. Ciggaran is in a rough spot, bless his heart.
 
glenngineer

glenngineer

Registered User
Jan 27, 2010
6,803
1,495
Franklin, TN
Byrddog said:
Reguardless of the % Freeman owns the amount is still substancial. If he can prove Cigarran diluted his share in the manner that has been indicated and he was essentially blackballed there is a problem. If the league does not make Freeman whole today he will probably file a civil suit in court and the league would be included as well. this is something Bettman will not want if there is a decision today one way or another Cigarran or Freeman will be leaving. Which onew is bought out and where the money comes from is the question. If Freeman and Wilson both ask to be bought out Bettman has a big problem. Again these two are the only ones in the ownership group that could obtain the finical guarantees when the team was sold at 175 mil. If Forbes is correct the team now is valued at 250 mil. Ciggaran is in a rough spot, bless his heart.
Click to expand...

Wilson was not part of the original group that bought the club. Freeman and Herb Fritch or some name like it were the only two that could handle the guarantees. Wilson came in a bunch of years after the sale of the team to local ownership.
 
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